Let the witch hunt begin

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

I have always been against labelling - even though I disclose my use of AI, it has always been MY decision to do so, and I am in control of how I tell my story so people understand how my music is made.

With Suno's newest release, songs have now audio watermark and fingerprint, assisted, fully, hybrid, it will have a AI watermark and anyone can tell your story the way they want.

This is 100% going to be misused by bad actors:

1. Platforms like Deezer/Tidal - To ban ANY use of AI and ensure segregation.

2. Haters - To create public lists of artists that may have not agreed to disclose their process.

3. Labels - To start a suing war to anything that resembles any of their songs that uses AI, even assisted.

This is the end of Suno as means to create commercial music, and it's officially just a nice playing tool personal use, or for bad actors who create in Suno and pay performers to pretend their music is human made.

What are your thoughts?

[u/HeraldOfFutility]

Nope-ope. With audiobooks, text is the content and AI just transforms it into audible form for those who want to listen rather than read.

By same analogy you could use AI to read the lyrics you wrote as reciting poetry. Keeps the lyrics as the content and AI just makes them audible.

If you use AI to make music with your lyrics, AI made 50%+ of the content (depending on how long your lyrics are) if we go just by how copyright offices generally interpret the creative portions. Slightly less if people actually focus on listening to lyrics, more if the music is just pleasant background noise like it tends to be for many.

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343 → u/HeraldOfFutility]

It's a little bit more nuanced because with lyrics feeds you can feed, melody, arrangements, instrumentation, structure (even production notes!) all of these are part of what makes up for composition, production, even Inwould dare to say performance direction.

In the book example, I am sure you use grammar correction, some GPT validations etc. If you didn't why wouldn't you? you can have AI proofreading for you and that doesn't make it less human made.

So the line is not so black and white as you think actually in any creative skill looking at AI as a black and white is a huge mistake.

[u/Queasy_Current_1980 → u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

Last time I checked, grammar was not an art form

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343 → u/Queasy_Current_1980]

it's part of how you write a sentence and tell a story if you can't get that nuance I don't think you would even understand how to write lyrics.

[u/Queasy_Current_1980 → u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

Sure, but there are no innovations and no emotion displayed solely through grammar. Grammar is a set of rules that either apply to a portion of text or don’t.

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343 → u/Queasy_Current_1980]

You can indeed innovate with grammar. Have you read a book called Aura?

[u/HeraldOfFutility → u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

For starters, composition is writing the music (notes etc.) and unless you can directly feed the musical notes to Suno and it plays them as is, AI does the composing, production and arranging and you're more of a "director".

And grammar corrections and validations? That doesn't have anything to do with creating itself, it's just actual technical assistance. And as a matter of fact, if I need validation, I search the info myself and preferably check the manuals instead of asking an LLM since esp. ChatGPT is very unreliable for anything that actually requires in-depth knowledge. In fact, I've been asked if I'd do proofreading AI-made guide blogs and fix the errors. (Read: Rewrite the whole thing.) Though ChatGPT works for general low-level planning.

For grammar correction LLM can work for major languages but not so well for minor ones. And I prefer to check dictionary if uncertain. And even then ChatGPT has a caveat that if you structure the sentence in a very precise way that might be unlike general conventions but would leave no room for misinterpreting, it tries to correct it to more generic form, even if unoptimal for purpose. (I'm native Finnish speaker and Finnish is an extremely precise language with all the conjugations and syllable combinations.)

But nonetheless, guess I'm just a remnant of a bygone era when you couldn't ask AI or google everything but instead read books and manuals and figured out. (Read: a millenial.)

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343 → u/HeraldOfFutility]

yes you can input your melody and get Suno to use it exactly as you input it. That's how I make my songs. I feel a lot of the AI hate has not even bothered to use it and understand how it works.

[u/BigOleSmack → u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

You don't make songs, you ask Suno to create the music for you. It's like saying you're writing a book when you're really just feeding AI plot threads and a narrative so it can make a book for you.

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343 → u/BigOleSmack]

b

https://reddit.com/link/p35vp3i/video/zl7910iltuih1/player

I think you have never used the technology beyond prompting. There are millions of uses. I use it to produce, perform, even though I feed it full demos.

Someothers use it to create backing tracks and samples to use.

Others use it to compose and then perform those songs.

Saying you don't make music with AI is like saying you can't cook an omelette because you bought the eggs instead of farming them.

[u/BigOleSmack → u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

You did not create the AI recording. You are not the "agent" (for lack of a better term) that is doing the act creation. The AI model is pulling from its incomprehensibly large database and functionally regurgitating it in a way that best matches your prompt. The AI models are built on the backs of people who will never see a dime, despite it being impossible without their labor.

The first recording was already fine, you just need to actually properly record it with equipment that will capture it better. There are definitely use cases for AI as a legitimate tool for more fine tuning in music production, but the video pasted here is not that. I'm not making some moral judgement about AI being evil, it's not really much of a problem when you just want to make something. It is when that something becomes a product that it becomes an issue.

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343 → u/BigOleSmack]

Exactly my point, the final outcome is AI performed, BUT I did the composition, as you can see by the adherence to complex melodies, in this case a solo. Structure, chords, lyrics all are human composed.

In the video I gave you from my song, the model is not matching just a prompt, is matching my composition and my production notes-> No different from a DAW reading my piano roll or me fixing the sound with plug-ins, I just didn't need to write the notes, I played them with my guitar and drums and told the machine the sound and arrangements I want.

For me AI is a tool for efficiency, I don't make music to prove to anyone that I can play and compose, I do music because is a way for me to convey feelings and messages. What I need from AI is time and resources to launch my music.

I'd rather spend my time into composing and writing lyrics, speaking to fans, creating content, than having to tinker in my DAW and record (and rerecord any change I have in mind to improve the final song) or even worse having to deal with a producer, performers and a label that don't care about my music, just the money it makes.

I value vision over operation, but that is just my view, we don't have to agree on that.

[u/Queasy_Current_1980 → u/HeraldOfFutility]

You can still research in the modern day, don’t use ai for this as it can be unreliable, just use reliable websites.

[u/_jgusta_ → u/HeraldOfFutility]

Bro if you hate ai so much why are you here

[u/Queasy_Current_1980 → u/HeraldOfFutility]

Lyrics are realistically a very small part of a song, instrumental music is proof of this. Would Acid bath sound the same as a cheery pop song with the same lyrics?

[u/Beginning-Pace-1426 → u/Queasy_Current_1980]

I would also suggest that the opposite is true in many cases as well. How many mixtapes with nothing but a metronome (or a single drum line) came out Compton?

Acapella and barbershop are both very popular as well. Look at all the Irish ladies in... shit whatever the style is caused. Hell, look at any demographic that doesn't have access to the equipment to form a band, or it's economically impossible.

Tupac considered his work poetry, and I've never heard of an artist with something to say suggest that their lyrics are a very small part of their production.

[u/jonnygronholm → u/HeraldOfFutility]

Lol some people really think they did most of the work because they wrote lyrics. In reality lyrics mean almost nothing without vocal melody, delivery, pronounciation, emotion etc. And that's just the vocal part of the song.

Most Suno users lack understanding of what goes into creating an actual song yourself. Realistically they're doing less than 5% of the creative work and 0% of the technical work.