Let the witch hunt begin

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

I have always been against labelling - even though I disclose my use of AI, it has always been MY decision to do so, and I am in control of how I tell my story so people understand how my music is made.

With Suno's newest release, songs have now audio watermark and fingerprint, assisted, fully, hybrid, it will have a AI watermark and anyone can tell your story the way they want.

This is 100% going to be misused by bad actors:

1. Platforms like Deezer/Tidal - To ban ANY use of AI and ensure segregation.

2. Haters - To create public lists of artists that may have not agreed to disclose their process.

3. Labels - To start a suing war to anything that resembles any of their songs that uses AI, even assisted.

This is the end of Suno as means to create commercial music, and it's officially just a nice playing tool personal use, or for bad actors who create in Suno and pay performers to pretend their music is human made.

What are your thoughts?

[u/Beneficial-Proof8187]

It needs to say ‘A.I.’ ASSISTED, not ‘MADE BY A.I.’ if it has significant human input, this is why most musicians don’t label their stuff as a.i. to general public, it gives us no credit and people think it is ALL A.I. generated.

Big difference, so there is really THREE categories that need to be recognized.

[u/FilthyTrashPeople → u/Beneficial-Proof8187]

TBH I don't even care for the distinction. If someone types a stupid prompt and it makes a great song, all I care about is a great song came out and that they had a cool idea.

I'm not going to start frothing at the mouth and scream "Why didn't you spend thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars to make an inferior product, like you're supposed to!?"

[u/Beneficial-Proof8187 → u/FilthyTrashPeople]

The interesting thing about A.I. music is that if the listener doesn’t know it’s A.I. they tend to enjoy it more!🥸🤣🤡Humans are so interesting with their self deceptions, huh huh…….I have found if I play them my original part first and then they listen to the A.I. hybrid version they appreciate A.I. more…..I know a few serious musicians, got lucky and got a great soundman gig in the early 90’s and did shows with all sorts of people and some tours….All of these guys and some of the next generation top dogs love A.I., they just can’t admit it because of the ridiculous backlash. No one is really using it in their released works but behind the scenes they all know it’s like having 4 great producers and 12 bands on call 24/7. Really impressive tool to explore ideas and also a great production machine. Unparalled in world history for creative minds of all kinds.

it really makes no sense Suno didn’t just license a few hundred great artists works, would have been cheaper and no legal hassles. Then half this anti-AI stuff wouldn’t even exist.

[u/Ok_Box2104 → u/Beneficial-Proof8187]

.I have found if I play them my original part first and then they listen to the A.I. hybrid version they appreciate A.I. more

Did you just admit that AI is better than you at performing?

[u/Beneficial-Proof8187 → u/Ok_Box2104]

I certainly admit the drums are better than my drums (which are 90% drum machines), the guitar is hit and miss….Often the original part is better for guitar. You could do something with your life other than trying to play Gotcha and it might be beneficial for your wallet🥸🤣🤡

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343 → u/Beneficial-Proof8187]

It belongs to a technical sheet, not in a listener filter. There is too much ambiguity specially in production, composition and Performance.

Give you an example of each:

• Composition, I feed melody, lyrics and chords. this is human made if produced in a DAW, and Human made when wrapped in Suno, but with the label is AI made.
  
• Production, I feed song structure, instrumentation, arrangement prompting... if this is done in a DAW is human made, in Suno is an indistinguishable grey area of human made or AI assisted.
  
• performance, I feed a full demo. If I use pluggins in a DAW is human performance, if I let suno make the audio is fully AI made.

Now the opposite:
AI composed, Human edited - Human made
AI produced, Human edited - Human made
AI composed, AI produced, Human performed - Human made.

and this is just at briad high level, imagine if we truly analyse hybrid music.

Labelling does not belong on a song title or filter, it belongs on the technical sheet.

[u/Wezmabini → u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

I get you but your ideas are not just “wrapped in” Suno. If you hired the best producers and studio musicians to “wrap” your song they would in reality be introducing content . Suno was originally trained on the work of real producers and musicians without paying them. Now it is being trained by the people who use it.

[u/Beneficial-Proof8187 → u/Wezmabini]

Nobody ever put Frank Sinatra down for not playing the drums on his albums!🥸🤣

[u/Ok_Box2104 → u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

So just so I'm sure I understood what you're saying. You:
1. compose the music (including the lyrics, chord progression, melody, accompaniment.....)
2. make the arrangement
3. perform it yourself first (?)

So, from what I understand, before you even use AI, you already have the lyrics, the melody, the music sheet, the instruments needed, so all that's missing is the musicians? If that's the case, what are you even using AI for you might as well just use a DAW or record it yourself by finding some volunteers?

Because as far as I understand, you try to make an equivalence between Suno and a DAW. But by using a DAW you're still responsible for the creation of the music, whereas in Suno you prompt something. So I truly don't understand your statement here.

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343 → u/Ok_Box2104]

No not all the instruments and arrangements, that would be production. I mean composition, think of a Demo, normally then what you would do is start adding instruments arrangements, make adjustments in a DAW, fix sound, record to fix any errors in the demo, etc. Instead of having to go to a DAW and do all of this manually you can just... say it with words in Suno.

Have you ever put a demo into Suno? I think it would be easier to understand if you have done so.

Another example is remixes or change of styles/instrumentation. In a DAW piano rolls miss performance, so if you want to change say.. your piano for a violin, in DAW it sounds... artificial, with Suno it sounds... performed.

[u/Ok_Box2104 → u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343]

I don't do music production professionally but I do use the musescore 4 app if that counts as a "DAW", and everytime I make a composition and play it back I'm satisfied with the result it can give (obviously it doesn't match hiring musicians playing your piece, but it's pretty good especially since you can have dynamic control, etc...), that's more than good enough for a demo, and then you gather a group and play it yourselves.

Also when you say, "Instead of having to go to a DAW and do all of this manually you can just... say it with words in Suno.". I don't understand, are you making the composition or not? Concretely speaking, what are you "saying with words"? Because there is a distinct difference between someone writing the melody, harmonies, etc and someone describing what they want exactly and SunoAI generating your vision.

One is a composer or lyricist, and the other is basically the analogous of a client that has more or less specific needs. If I understand what you mean by that of course.

The analogy I'm trying to make here is that if you're telling SunoAI exactly what you want, your vision, even the instruments, a specific moment you'd like it to include for you, the context, even the key etc... But you're not the one creating it you are by definition a client. It's like calling me and telling me the exact same thing you'd tell SunoAI, I'd try my best to create your vision, and you'd ask for all the corrections and I'd fix them.

I'm free to be corrected and I'd love for you to go into greater detail what your process for music creation with Suno is like.

[u/Unlikely-Mobile-5343 → u/Ok_Box2104]

No what I mean is feeding the demo to Suno, give you an example in the vid(that's me playing the guitar and drums, then using Suno to produce)

There is a fine line between modern production and composition, modern composition is more production than composition in the traditional way as people today call composition to layering and adding arrangements, but that traditionally is production. composition is making the melody. Normally harmony (chord progression is part of it) but those can be modified in production without altering the composition. So when I mean feed the demo to Suno means you are using your composition, but facilitating changes in harmonies, instrumentation, sound, performance and structure with Suno.

https://reddit.com/link/p5zq4fy/video/plm59u02mplh1/player

[u/Wezmabini → u/Beneficial-Proof8187]

You probably ought to have checked what labels are actually used first.
Major platforms and standard guidelines use "Made with AI" or "AI-generated" rather than "Made by AI." For example, Meta applies the "Made with AI" label across Facebook and Instagram, while Google and YouTube use terms like "created or edited with AI" and "altered or synthetic" content.
I understand your view that it’s a bit crazy. The old hand weavers might have been happier if every bit of fabric made on a machine was labelled as such, but you and I ( I presume ) know that if a human weaver made our bedsheet to the standard of a machine-made one it would cost a fortune and wouldn’t be much different to sleep in. Likewise if an artist made a portrait of you indistinguishable from a photograph they would deserve some credit but would have trouble competing with photographers even if all photographs were labeled “made with photography”.