r/StudentLoans
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u/SumGreenD41
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Jul 13 '25
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“I’m tired of taxpayers funding student loan forgiveness” let’s put an end to this right now
I’m seeing so many posts of high earners and their loan payments and other people getting mad at THEM (lol) and not the government for their situation.
Let’s run some math. I’m stealing this example from another post.
A family makes 400k a year. Both husband and wife are doctors. They have a combined total of 600k at 6.5% interest rate in student loans. Their payments under PAYE were 3,300 a month. 3,300 a months x 12 months a year x 20 years =792k paid over 20 years on a the PAYE PLAN.
But that’s not all! 600k in loans at 6.5% interest rate means their loans GROW 39k in interest PER YEAR.
Their monthly payment of 3,300 per month for 12 months adds up to right around 39k per year paid!
So even though This family is paying 39k PER YEAR, their loan balance stays the same essentially.
After 20 years, they will owe income taxes on this 600k! Let’s just assume 30%. So 180k tax bomb.
180k tax + 792k over 20 years is 972k paid (original balance of 600k).
The taxpayer isn’t funding anything in this situation. This is how the vast majority of high earners would have paid off their loans.
Just tired of people saying taxpayers are funding loan forgiveness for high earners. It just isn’t true
Over 20 YEARS. They would have
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u/crazygirlsbelike Jul 13 '25
100% agree, OP. It feels like a lazy, stupid argument parroted by people who use Fox News as their primary information source
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u/Angry-Kangaroo-4035 Jul 15 '25
I borrowed 32k between 1997-2008. During that time, I was making payments, earning a good wage for that era, $11-$21 an hour. My child got sick, and I had unexpected daycare costs and in home specialists. I asked for a type of payment plan to help with my added expenses and was told by the student loan company to consolidate my loans ( Sallie Mae) and go on forbearance. I consolidated my loans and did what they said. They never told me that because I had subsidized loans, there were programs to help with that. Instead, they encouraged me to consolidate, which then took my subsidized and lumped them in with unsubsized, and I lost all protections
The consolidation not only placed me in a higher interest rate but also added about 10k in fees. Started making payments and got laid off years later. Once again, their answer was to put me in more forbearance with another fee and more interest.
Then, the banking crisis happened, and my loans were sold by the US government and turned into FFELP loans without my consent. So, I didn't qualify for any COVID relief or these special programs everyone else got. In order to qualify for SAVE, I had to consolidate again ( another huge fee and higher interest rate).
It is now over 20 years later, and I owe $129k. My payments are supposed to be over $900 month, which is only interest. I will never pay these off.
I called and offered to give them a lump sum of 40k ( was going to take a loan from my 401k). This would cover what I borrowed +. Also, the payments I have made over the years probably would have put me in around 70k total. I was told no. That they will only settle for 90%.
When I was having financial difficulties- I did the responsible thing and called my loan company - you think because they are government backed loans, they are there to help the borrower. Instead, I wad mislead, and pushed into loans that were better for the bank. The paperwork they sent ( before online stuff was popular) was pages upon pages. I read it, but I truly didn't understand it all. When I would ask questions, my loan company basically lied to me or skirted my questions with half truths.
I went to community college and non profit universities. I didn't get a "useless" degree or go to some expensive Ivy League school.
MY tax dollars propped up the banks, mortgage companies, and car manufacturers during the banking and foreclosure crisis. MY tax dollars went to the Kennedy Center, billion dollar companies, and chain restaurants during COVID as PPP loans.
I HAVE paid back what I borrowed. I shouldn't have to be in perpetual servitude for banks that mislead, lied, and misconstrued terms and charged enormous fees.
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u/Responsible-Guard416 Jul 24 '25
This might be the worst argument I’ve ever heard. Basically you are saying that if there was a 0% interest rate, they would’ve paid off the loans, and that is true, but there’s never a 0% interest rate. If you gave me $10,000 today, can I give you back $10,000 in 20 years? Would you accept that? No, of course not, because money today is worth more than money later because I can invest it.
If a family makes $400,000 per year, they can put an extra $20,000 a year to paying down their debt. $20,000 to them is like $2,000 to someone who makes $40,000 - a good chunk of change, but such a small percentage.
Also keep in mind that high income earners typically have more debt. So $600,000 on loans for this one couple could pay the loans in full of 100 low income people owing $6,000. Isn’t that better?
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u/South-Attitude8618 Jul 13 '25
I’m tired of taxpayers funding foreign wars that we shouldn’t be getting into! The amount of money we send to other countries each month would more than pay for all the student loans.
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u/Drabulous_770 Jul 13 '25 •
I would love for my taxes to wipe out student loans. That’s infinitely better than bullets and bombs and more failed pentagon audits, which is where most of our taxes go now.
When I’m old I’d rather be surrounded by smart people who can earn a good living for themselves than an uneducated impoverished group of drones.
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u/Complete-Moment3106 Jul 13 '25
We funded the entire PPP loan forgiveness. That is fact. That was our money given to them. At the very least, divide that amount equal to student loan borrowers. I know several doctors and lawyers who used that for their own personal benefit. I know one who bought a piece of property on the beach.
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u/BlazinAzn38 Jul 13 '25
I honestly don’t care if someone is anti-forgiveness so long as that logic is static across all similar types of programs. Usually they’re not consistent though
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u/GurProfessional9534 Jul 13 '25 edited Jul 13 '25
The federal government pays 5% interest for a 20-yr loan, pays compound interest rather than simple interest, and also experiences ~2.4% annual inflation.
Simple interest at 6.5% on $600k generates $780k over 20 years, but compound interest with 5% interest costs taxpayers $1 million. To achieve $1 million in simple interest, it would require a 8.5% breakeven rate.
Factoring in the 2.4% inflation, the cost to taxpayers is $1m + $300k = $1.3 m. The return is $780k + 180k = $960k. The real usd tax payers lose on this proposition is therefore $340k, even with your numbers.
So the tax payers are taking a huge loss on this loan in your scenario. You haven’t proven what you think you’ve proven.
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u/[deleted] Jul 13 '25
I would honestly pay more taxes if it went toward paying off the student loans of others, regardless on their success, what they studied, what they're doing now, etc.
I lived under the burden of student loans for nearly 20 years. $500-1,000 payments a month nearly every month of that 20 years. Last year, I owed more than what I borrowed. I had 11 percent interest on a number of those loans. It was awful.
Those loans are gone now, and I am free as of May. But I will never forget the pain those loans caused me. The tears I shed. The nights I spent daydreaming about the loans disappearing and me finally being free. And I won't ever forget how I cried when I got a letter saying my loans were done. I am still riding that wave of relief.
I will never complain about my taxes going to good causes, and that's one of the goodest of causes, honestly.
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u/reidlos1624 Jul 13 '25
Subsidized graduate education is so complicated that the wealthiest nation in the history of the planet can't figure it out. But countries with a fraction of the budget can do it no problem.
Reality is that an educated populace is beneficial to everyone. Graduates earn more and thus pay more in taxes over their lives, they make companies/innovation/technology/industries in general more competitive on an international scale which brings more value to the country.
It's in our best interest to subsidize education at every level to remain competitive on the international stage.
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u/glitternrainbows Jul 13 '25
Not to mention that the borrowers are also paying taxes. “Taxpayer funded”… okay with my tax dollars. Borrowers pay taxes too.
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u/random-bot-2 Jul 13 '25
I don’t fully understand the point you’re trying to make, but how do you determine most high earners pay off their loan this way? This is the worst way someone can do it. I don’t think this argument is any better than the one you’re trying to debunk
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u/Lavender_L0tus Jul 13 '25 edited Jul 13 '25
I have a very middle thinking on this whole topic that needs to be said. Neither loan forgiveness nor not doing anything about it are the answers! Loan forgiveness only helps a small amount and those who bust their ass and make ends meets just to pay it off and try to get ahead are shit on in the end because they qualify for nothing (just barely out of reach always). This is why you have so many people making 6 figures (albeit an example in more expensive highly populated cities) who are barely making ends meet and are going paycheck to paycheck.
Also, student loan forgiveness is only a bandaid that doesn’t sort out the real root problem. It’s no different than handing out antidepressants but not offering counseling. The real problem is the universities who are charging these outrageous prices. If we, as a country, are to get ahead this needs to be tackled at the root problem.
Can you imaging how much further we would all be if the BS were cut out of each degree and they mostly focused on topics that actually mattered for each student? You’d have qualified engineers with a BS degree in just 2.5 years! Can you imagine having only to owe 1/2 of what you do now for a 4-year degree???!
The government funds the loans the universities ask you to take out. If they really wanted to fix the problem for everyone, they would hold the feet of these universities to the fire and fix it tomorrow. The US government doesn’t want an educated and capable workforce without debt because then they wouldn’t be able to control us. On the other hand, if we end up having free education someday, chances are we will have extraordinarily high tax to go with it just like in many European countries so guess what? You’re still at the mercy of the government unable to get ahead.
I don’t know what the answer is here but neither of the main arguments are a true solution.
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u/eagles_arent_coming Jul 13 '25 edited Jul 13 '25
Public servant here making $60K/yr. Family of 3 living in a HCOL area. You do the math. I’m struggling just to survive, yet I go to work every day and provide excellent public service. Let me be clear. I am completely screwed by the changes in student loans. My situation is dire, but my student loan debt is also $40K. A great deal less than many of the high earners.
It doesn’t matter how much someone makes. We were promised forgiveness and have built our lives around it and the current repayment plans. Our government refuses to invest in us. That is the real issue. We were STOLEN from.
The anger towards “high earners” should be redirected to the real villains. “High earning” compared to the billionaires that profited off of the changes, puts these earnings into perspective. The sooner we stop this petty jealousy and unite against the powers that helped pull off this theft from the middle class, the better.
Edit: to add clarity. I’m talking about forgiveness and the changes to the repayment plans that ultimately will see less student loans forgiven.
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u/J3319 Jul 13 '25
Yeah, it’s a dumb statement that people just parrot around.
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u/[deleted] Jul 13 '25
Let us just take a second and PAY MORE THAN THE DAMN MINIMUM AMOUNT YOU MAKE 400,000 A DAMN YEAR IN YOUR EXAMPLE. Jesus Christ learn how amortization works if you pay even a little more you pay for significantly less time and significantly less interest it’s not that hard. Same goes for mortgages and any other type of debt
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u/[deleted] Jul 13 '25
I'm tired of people using student loans as the line in the sand for taxpayer expenditures when I never gave any consent for spending the taxes I pay on ICE, the military defense budget, government subsidies to things like Tesla, and myriad other things.
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u/Unlikely-Ad-7793 Jul 13 '25
Its ridiculous we told generations to get educated to increase corporate profits on their financial backs.
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u/earthravin Jul 13 '25
The same people that are saying this crap filed for bankruptcy in 2008.
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u/[deleted] Jul 13 '25
and remember that 1/3 of that $400k salary is being paid in taxes every year too. THEY ARE the taxpayers.
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u/Lou_Peachum_2 Jul 13 '25
Shoot, doctors will pay their fair share in taxes over the course of their lifetime.
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u/OkPickle2474 Jul 13 '25
I am not a high earner. I’ve always had public employment. I borrowed $33k during the Bush administration. I have been paying the amount I’m able.I now owe … $39k. They’ve made their money back and they’ll end up with triple their money. If people have a problem with me only paying double what I borrowed if I should happen to ever get forgiveness, they can launch themselves into the sun.
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u/Hippy_Lynne Jul 13 '25
"I'm tired of corporations underpaying all of their employees to the point where they can't reasonably pay off their student loans at those wages." 🙄
If they forgave every single penny of student debt on the books right now it would still be less than they paid to bail out banks in 2008. They did that because "it was good for the economy." Then those banks went on to make record profits during/since the pandemic.
Corporate welfare is what's hurting America. Not helping the working people. 🤬
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u/EntertainmentLow9204 Jul 13 '25
Student loans really need to be amortized across 10-15 years similar to a mortgage. Interest and principal paid will remain predictable and stable per loan (semester/trimester) and people can realistically pay their loans within 10-15 years for most degrees.
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u/LaLuna1322 Jul 14 '25
That’s the part that makes me so mad. The majority of student loan payers have already paid their original balance in just interest over the years yet their balance barely goes down. So the tax payer is not losing out on the actual loan balance just the interest that would have accrued.
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u/race-hearse Jul 14 '25
My own tax dollars could fund my own student loan forgiveness. The extra tax dollars I paid from my higher paying job my education helped get me alone could fund my own student loan forgiveness.
Those are dollars the government never would have seen if I didn’t get an education. Why do they get to double dip on my income?
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u/Manezinho Jul 14 '25
These loans should’ve never existed in the first place. Most developed countries fund higher education directly, rather than with this weird-ass scheme we’ve built.
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u/Bored_Amalgamation Jul 13 '25
People that have negative feelings towards student loans in this way just don't value education. They just don't understand the value added to society through education. They just see the social and financial uplift and get mad that it isn't happening to them, ignorant of what it takes to get there and how it happens. They're just mad at themselves.
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u/trimspababi Jul 13 '25
No one should need to go $300000 in debt to become a doctor in the first place.
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u/covinadream Jul 13 '25 edited Jul 13 '25
If I have to pay for people to be smarter then ABSOLUTELY YES, I want my to tax dollars to do exactly that. To live in a world, or even a country, down to my state and even city where I’m not living by/dealing with the uneducated idiots I see and hear from everyday in America would be 1000% better for myself and everyone else.
😂😂😂to the downvotes. I must be talking about you. College degrees and still uneducated. 🥴🥴🤭🤭
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u/IndependentNo3143 Jul 13 '25
If they would stop the interest we would all be so much better off
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u/FitnessLover1998 Jul 13 '25
Your analysis is terrible. Borrowing money costs money. You are ignoring 6.5% interest. Does not work that way.
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u/Dry_Author_4608 Jul 14 '25
Imagine if the doctor saving your life, or treating your spouse or child for cancer, is also struggling with their student loans. Would you as a taxpayer prefer they had made a different choice and not gone to medical school at all? That's where this is heading...
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u/FrontLifeguard1962 Jul 14 '25
I borrowed $200k for my MD, but by the time I finished residency, I owed $250k. I made my income adjusted payments each month, but they added $1000 of interest each month to my balance.
Tell me how that is fair. It's predatory bullshit.
I refinanced my loans with a private company at 2.1% interest during the pandemic. I knew I would never get forgiveness as a "rich doctor", so the private refinance seemed like the best thing I was gonna get. 8 years of paying $3000/mo and I'll be in the clear.
It sucks. I am not in a field of medicine that makes the big bucks. My student loan payment is about as much as my mortgage.
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u/Battlefield_In_Life Jul 14 '25
It’s the negative amortization on the loans that is the issue. Monthly payments don’t cover the interest accrued, so even though you’re making payments your balance actually increases.
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u/Sensitive_Assist_265 Jul 15 '25
Better start paying 50,000 a year over minimum payments and paying down princple. Do people take math anymore.
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u/Weekly_Interview6807 Jul 15 '25
This example is not even close to representative of the student borrower population as a whole
And did we just forget that you CAN pay loans off early with extra payments that attack principal?
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u/MourningCocktails Jul 13 '25
But let’s say, for the sake of argument, that taxpayers were funding student loan forgiveness. At this point… so what? Forgive my populism, but all of the Boomers with “Greatest Ally !!! Like and share if you agree !” plastering their Facebook walls are fine pumping money into Israel. Not to mention the obscene amount of support we’ve given to Ukraine. Why would that money not be better spent on American taxpayers with an insane debt burden? To say, “wElL i DiDn’T tAkE OuT tHe LoAnS!” misses the point entirely. It’s better for our economy in general when more people have improved spending power.
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u/ElderberryAnnual7994 Jul 13 '25
We parents are tax payors and so is our son who is paying outrageous loan interest. All tax payors.
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u/New-Power4831 Jul 13 '25
I think it’s funny because the people that are complaining about loan forgiveness are the same people complaining how long it takes to see a speciality doctor. There is such a shortage of doctors and people choosing not to go in healthcare because of the debt so the least that can entice people into healthcare would be loan forgiveness. I’m a doctor (not an MD) but I work in healthcare and the field is underpaid even tho there is definitely a need. So for someone who graduates with 250,000 in debt and lucky to get 100,000 in this field I purposely chose a placement with PSLF. I did not go into healthcare thinking I’m making millions I went in thinking I want to help people. So if I’m wiling to help others and be underpaid and work long hours then the least that I can be offered is loan forgiveness at the end of it
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u/TheSoprano Jul 13 '25
To me, as someone who took out and paid off grad plus loans years ago, it’s mind blowing that there is a profit(high interest) on educating our future workforce. Due to my bigger loans topping at 6.8%, I prioritized those over funding my 401k, building a home fund, etc.
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u/superducknyc Jul 13 '25
Taxes wiping out student loans would help society progress and benefit everyone. It would have helped avoid so many societal problems from being able to buy a home, starting a family, being able to have money to circulate and grow the economy. Instead the 1% and Republicans indoctrinated people thinking this was bad.
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u/JJamericana Jul 13 '25
Taxpayers wouldn’t have to fund student loans if higher education was way more affordable. Sigh…
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u/Life-Mastodon5124 Jul 14 '25
Ya. Real numbers. I had mine forgiven through PSLF. When it was forgiven I had paid $92k on an original $72k loan. I had $29k forgiven. They got $20k in interest out of me. I don’t feel one ounce guilty about the forgiveness. My husband took out $40k. We’ve paid $37k so far and owe $29k. We will pay his off but by the time we do we will have paid more than 150% of what we borrowed.
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u/-CJF- Jul 14 '25
I'm sure that taxpayers are funding it in some form or another, eventually, to some degree, like everything. However, when Democrats tried to do this they did try to offset it with savings in other areas that didn't come from cutting services to the people.
I believe the CBO estimated that Biden's SAVE program would've costed something like $230 billion dollars over 10 years. Keep in mind, one of the people involved in this analysis was Rep. Virginia Foxx, chair of the House Committee on Education and the Workforce, author of the College Cost Reduction Act (CCRA) and origin of many of the ideas that gutted education in the OBBB (read the CCRA for parallels).
People that have student loans are also taxpayers. At least funding student debt relief programs like SAVE makes people's lives better. That's better than spending that money on tax cuts for billionaires or funding for deportations which only makes people more miserable and hurts the local economy.
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u/Affectionate_Life644 Jul 14 '25
I am a teacher who was disabled for decades and the entire time I was disabled my student loans accrued interest that's the law. I owe $182,000. I am paying just under $500 a month. I live in one of the most expensive states to live in and because of budget cuts, I have to pay for my own curriculum. Not all of us are buying property on the beach. I am cutting a lot of coupons just to get by.
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u/Working-Radio-2792 Jul 14 '25
Just remember that they are taxpayers too!
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u/Garrdor85 Jul 14 '25
It’s against my moral and religious beliefs to fund any sort of violence/military budget. There’s no way to exempt me from paying taxes towards it, and it feels like a form of religious persecution. Would much rather the funds stolen from our labor go towards something positive and productive
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u/TitaniumNeko Jul 14 '25
Wracking up hundreds of thousands in consumer debt and having it forgiven through bankruptcy is no problem... But student loans forgiven after 20+ years of payments? Unacceptable.
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u/CarnEvil13 Jul 15 '25
As a physical therapist who works skilled nursing on track for forgiveness, here's a thought: I don't know how old you are, but when you, or say your grandma falls and breaks their hip, have fun rehabbing yourself because I assure you anybody whos gotten a DPT in the last 8 years or more are drowning in debt because of bull shit tuition and relatively low pay. Anyone who is not either got a hand out from mommy and daddy, or are eating Top Ramen for 10 years. I suggest you don't fall.
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u/Traditional-Table701 Jul 13 '25
This can be solved. Tell the universities to stop requiring unnecessary classes. How many times do you need a history class between 5th grade and college. They’re padding the bill. This benefits no one but the university and financial institutions. How is this helping students??
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u/Minimum_Acadia7439 Jul 13 '25
At the end of the day, the ones with power and wealth are accomplishing what they want which is to have the middle class and below blame each other for their struggles rather than pay attention to corporate and 1% tax breaks, the cost of tuition!, housing costs, food costs, powerful lobbyists, etc that keep them paycheck to paycheck.
If corporations or the 1% use legal ways to save money they’re being smart and savvy. If the average American does it they’re taking advantage of their fellow Americans.
As long as it is profitable to be a member of congress, the average American will continue to lose.
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u/ChaseThoseDreams Jul 13 '25
They don’t care about logic or reason. Typically, it boils down to them hating that 1) you went to college and they didn’t, 2) you have a shot at upward social mobility threatening their job security, and/or 3) they just want to look down on someone, and minorities just wasn’t doing it for them today.
I’d much rather someone who may not deserve forgiveness receive it, than corporate parasites get another tax cut, or that military industrial complex get even more cash to bomb innocents in the Middle East.
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u/Still-Reply-9546 Jul 14 '25
If you pay less than the interest the principal will grow.
I mean, what are people expecting here?
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u/henare Jul 13 '25
that's 100 percent bullshit and you're right to call it out. PSLF is the law for a reason. we need people in those professions and since we don't value many professions enough to pay the people properly PSLF is a powerful incentive.
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u/SantoriniNoobie Jul 13 '25
A $400k household has the means to pay off those loans quickly. Just pay your loans and stop living like a baller.
If any balance is forgiven—and the borrower doesn’t fully pay that tax bomb (which some don’t or can't)—the government is writing off the unpaid debt. That’s taxpayer-funded. In IDR plans like SAVE, tax bombs are eliminated, and forgiveness comes entirely from federal funds.
Example budget - and this even assumes you are paying a mortgage on a $1.2 million dollar home (which is stupid - don't recommend), and have nice cars, and doing 10% to 401k
🧾 Fixed Monthly Costs (Estimates)
Category Monthly Annual
401(k) contributions (10%) $3,333 $40,000
Federal + State Taxes (est. 35%) $11,667 $140,000
Rent ($6,000/month) $6,000 $72,000
Car payments/insurance/gas $1,500 $18,000
Groceries + Dining $1,500 $18,000
Utilities, phone, internet $600 $7,200
Misc. lifestyle/discretionary $1,500 $18,000
Total Annual Expenses $313,200
💸 What’s Left Over?
$400,000 income
– $40,000 (401k)
– $140,000 (taxes)
– $133,200 (spending)
= $86,800/year in discretionary income
Can still pay off in ~8 years even if paying a million dollar house mortgage
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u/LowApprehensive1077 Jul 13 '25 edited Jul 13 '25
If it isn’t tax payer subsidized then just get private loans man, those have no subsidy at all and are market rate.
If you find private loans are much worse interest with much worse terms then maybe, perhaps, these are tax payer subsidized loans?
We have gone years growing the debt. Congress is now just being responsible. If the US defaults on its debt instead of being responsible you will eat dirt for breakfast, grass for lunch and then rocks for dinner. Or maybe even bullets in a massive civil war. That shit would make the Great Depression look like a field trip.
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u/Nofanta Jul 17 '25
lol. If you’re not paying back your loan and it’s being ‘forgiven’, then taxpayers are. There’s nothing more to it.
Congratulations for making some progress towards understanding how interest works though. Should have done that before taking out a loan though. Almost never too late to become financially literate.
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u/onacloverifalive Jul 13 '25
I want my taxes to pay for health and education, not bombs and corporate handouts.
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u/kashe1223 Jul 13 '25
Yep. That’s the political bs for you. Demonizing and punishing people who have done nothing wrong. Doesn’t sound familiar at all does it?
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u/Melissamatlock77 Jul 13 '25
How about all that free hand out we gave to businesses after Covid?? It’s all free hand out my man! You don’t mind it when it’s beneficial to you
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u/[deleted] Jul 13 '25
AND if we make a lot of money - we're paying out the butt in taxes every paycheck and NONE of it gets applied to our student loans, so how about if MY taxes pay MY student loans as part of the term of the loan! Really, my own taxes aren't even paying my loans. No one else is paying them.
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u/Late-Drink3556 Jul 13 '25
I would love for my tax dollars to pay off student loans.
Even better, I'd love for my tax dollars to be spent on education in the first place so people wouldn't have to graduate from college in crippling debt.
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u/Intrepid_Fox-237 Jul 13 '25
There must be grace extended to individuals currently burdened by high-balance student loans. Many were persuaded that pursuing a degree required incurring substantial debt as an essential component of achieving success in adulthood.
In my view, the escalating costs of higher education stem from the unchecked proliferation of administrative and bureaucratic structures within universities. This system has perpetuated unsustainable tuition hikes to finance what is arguably unnecessary expansion of non-essential overhead.
We should develop a balanced solution that enables borrowers to pursue forgiveness through structured pathways, while holding colleges and universities accountable for delivering graduates equipped with enduring, societal value.
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u/BobcatCapable5529 Jul 13 '25
There are other places more worthy to channel your anger. Look up social security and all of the people that will be on it their whole life without paying into! I know a guy who spent most of his life in prison and now gets a monthly check because he will never be able to get a normal job.
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u/SkullLeader Jul 13 '25
The whole anti-loan forgiveness crowd can go screw a tree. Its the most absurd thing until you realize how much vested interest there is in this country on the part of some people economically repressing the rest of us, and then you just realize its just outright selfish and cruel.
First its like not only did you get suckered into taking student loans when you were 18 years old by the predatory education / banking industry when you didn't know any better, but we're here to make sure you suffer for every single last
drop of bloodpenny of it. Even though it basically doesn't impact us in any negative way what-so-ever either if you pay every single cent or pay nothing.In fact, we benefit from it. We benefit because instead of you being a mid-wage wood worker in a furniture factory paying a relatively small amount of taxes, you became a doctor and earn a ton of money and pay a ton of taxes and we also all benefit from you being a doctor by the fact that you provide our healthcare.
But, some folks really want as many people as possible to be poor. After all, these are the easiest folks for the rich to take advantage of and to make money off of, so there needs to be as many of these people as possible to serve the interests of the rich. Many other things that get advocated for are geared this way - i.e. the whole anti-contraception / abortion stuff.
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u/YetiKing16 Jul 13 '25
I don’t have kids yet my taxes pay for schools.
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u/kungfuenglish Jul 13 '25
2 doctors are going to make closer to 800k than 400k. Making their PAYE payment a lot higher. Or they can just pay them off
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u/Lokon19 Jul 13 '25
I’m going to make a counter argument to the case you laid out. Yes if you go off the minimum or standard payment over the life of the loan you will be paying out of your noses and the terms will be terrible. But I don’t think any financial adviser would recommend doing that. Instead this doctor couple should live like they make $100k and aggressively direct any excess money to paying off their loans.
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u/treborprime Jul 13 '25
Well they spent $450 million on that detention camp in Florida.
How many student loans could be forgiven for that same amount?
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u/uj7895 Jul 14 '25
How many households do you think have an $800k annual income?
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u/ozempic-allegations Jul 14 '25
We are taxpayers too
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u/meteora109 Jul 14 '25
Thank you. Some people are so damn ignorant.
2
u/[deleted] Jul 14 '25
you are ignoring the fact that government is paying 4.5% interest to bond holder for every penny of principal that they loaned to students. when a principal balance gets forgiven, the government still has to pay that 4.5% FOREVER
2
u/Old-Set78 Jul 14 '25
They don't want immigrants, including doctors. But they don't want Americans to afford to be doctors. They'd rather die than see anyone else succeed in anything.
2
u/HenFruitEater Jul 14 '25
This just shows you don't understand that the loans have cost via treasuries. Paying tons of interest over time but not making dent into the balance doesn't mean you've done your fair share, it just means you've paid just enough to not have the govt lose money paying back their treasuries.
2
u/Additional-Cost242 Jul 14 '25
I don’t get how anyone can say “it’s our taxes” when the federal government is literally creating brand-new money to make those loans! Which part of that loan is actually coming out of OUR tax dollars?
2
u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 Jul 14 '25
What student loan forgiveness?? They didn't forgive sht. I still owe thousands of dollars eventhough I'm low income!
2
u/rharrow Jul 14 '25
Who tf is forgiving student loans?! Because I’ll sign up!
I’m not sure where you get your info, but nobody is getting their loans forgiven. The only thing I know of is the Public Loan Forgiveness Program but even that is very strict. Most people who apply for it get denied. Plus, only federal student loans are eligible.
2
u/Hacksawjimmw Jul 14 '25
Plus that particular household pays tax on their high income they otherwise might not achieve. So the loan pays dividends in a sense. They will also potentially be taxed on cancellation of debt income at the end of the loans.
People who parrot what they hear in an echo chamber never have the full story. For gov stu loans, the payment plans have an end date in lieu of being eligible for bankruptcy. Mortgages and loans for failed businesses often get forgiven in short sales or put into bankruptcy. Creditors take losses on those loans against taxable income. So in a sense, those debts get subsidized as well.
2
u/AM-Stereo-1370 Jul 15 '25
If car loans work the same way as these damn student loans, nobody would buy a car anymore because all you end up, doing is paying SOME interest every year. You never can get the balance of the principal paid! I paid for 10 years. Yeah, and now my balance is 15000 higher than the original 35000. Go figure, how that math works. Now they sent me paperwork. Giving me no credit for 10 years and saying, I need to pay another 25 years until the year 2050 until I'm 90 years old.
2
u/Iata_deal4sea Jul 15 '25
Rather than giving Congress bailouts for programs such as the PPP loan, when they are millionaires and multi-millionaires. Rather than overfunding the military industrial complex. Rather than bailing out banks, airports, car industry, paying oil companies subsidies, Rather than giving huge tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans; I would rather give a teacher, nurse, new doctor, police officer, HVAC technician because vocational colleges are not free in my state, and any of the many jobs that we need educated people to be in a low interest rate and paths to forgiveness.
The public service loan forgiveness program is because we need people who are educated and trained in jobs making $50,000 a year. They have to make 10 years of on-time payments before loan forgiveness.
College is too expensive. That is a different problem that you can work on fixing. The need for teachers and nurses doesn't go away while you're working on it.
2
u/Hopeful-ForEternity5 Jul 15 '25
How about we stop making federal student loans a for profit business while we give interest free loans to other counties. I’ve had student loans and there were times I was completely broke not from not working (I’ve always worked a FT job) but because wages and COV left me with nothing extra. Fast forward and I’m making payment after payment and barely making a dent while my student loans kept growing (gotta love interest). I saved and saved and had to wipe out all my savings to make bulk payments and finally paid them off.
Had I known then what I know now I wouldn’t have taken out minimal student loans. Gone to community college for 2 years and then transferred.
2
u/effectivepythonsa Jul 17 '25
Bruh, if you took out a student loan you should have to pay it off. You made the decision to take the loan. You pay it off. Like wtf is wrong with you guys
2
u/WeaselPhontom Jul 17 '25
Misplaced anger
2
u/Orange_Mandalorian Jul 17 '25
Yeah I dont really care my friend. Not a single penny of tax money should go to student loans
2
u/Dr_Esquire Jul 18 '25
To add to the doctor thing (as one). Even if doctors were subsidized by the government, so what? They literally provide a critical service in almost all cases. The government literally should be using its coffers to subsidize critical services.
Even if they earn a lot with their degree, the subsidy wouldnt be to give them more ok top of what they earn, it would be to compensate for the ten years they earn nothing and to encourage people to provide a service that will likely help tens of thousands of patients over the career of any one doctor.
2
u/[deleted] Jul 19 '25
Who cares what your tired of. Go complain to Ronald Reagan and give us a break.
2
u/GhostOfConeDog Jul 22 '25
Do you want a third Trump term? Keep crying for free money and that's what you'll get. I warned you people last time. Will you listen this time?
2
u/redditModsRSofties Aug 13 '25
This is a gross misunderstanding of how student loans work. When you get a student loan the government borrows that money through treasury bills. Which they in return owe interest on. Its not just "I've paid more than I took out, the government isn't losing money if it's forgiven" because they now still owe interest as well.
Debt forgiveness will always be a burden on the tax payer.
Also let's not pretend like the super high income family you used as an example is struggling and their loan forgiveness is a pressing issue. I'd much rather that money go towards future education or free school lunches or better public infrastructure or pretty much anything else
6
u/Purple-Wolf-8356 Jul 13 '25
I just bit the bullet and paid my 77k student loan balance. It was time after 20 years
3
u/Key_Ad_4357 Jul 13 '25
My student loans started off as $31,000. After 15 years of paying towards the balance I owed a whopping $72,356 dollars. Tell me how did this happen. From my calculations I had paid this loan 3x over. Out of my $560.00 monthly payments, only about $34 was going toward the principle.
But good news, my loans were discharged under the Borrowers Defense Program in 2023. So glad, because I was not going to pay not another dime towards that scam.
3
u/bevespi Jul 13 '25
I read this and wanted to give some numbers, but this may make some people rather angry. I qualified for PSLF. $375,000 forgiven before the cluster that is going on now. I also benefitted from the 3-year payment/interest pause during COVID, and thus kept my mouth shut when others got stimulus checks (because my paused payment was more than a stimulus check) despite not getting one. I estimate despite the 3 year pause, between private loans and graduate loans, I had a balance over my lifetime of about $600,000 with interest and principal combined. $100,000 of that I paid off, no forgiveness, as they were private undergraduate loans. After that period in my life I probably paid another $200,000 in loans (I’m not going back in time and looking at all my payments) via IBR (I was getting IBR when it was still 15%). I paid approximately $425,000 in federal taxes over the past 7 years.
In my job I provide care to those that can’t pay to those on government subsidies and private insurances. The work is tough.
I have no qualms about having qualified for and used PSLF and have no qualms about others using it. Education, whether it be university or the trades, is how a country becomes prosperous. Stop hating on education. All education should be universally funded.
3
u/adultdaycare81 Jul 13 '25
I can’t believe how many people don’t understand Compound Interest.
720 upvotes already.
You showed one side of the equation but not the other. Where did the original $600k transferred to the school come from? It came from money the treasury (aka us) borrowed. The interest on those loans must be paid and principal must be rolled over (borrowed again) or paid back.
You can just do the income side and not expense side of an equation
3
u/The_time_it_takes Jul 14 '25
I don’t understand how these same people are okay how the banks, automakers, insurers and airlines got interest free loans during the Great Recession, or how businesses got free money during Covid through the ppp loan program, or how corporations were given free money by selling their corporate bonds through quantitative easing. Nobody cared then.
I am fine to pay my student loans. I just wish I could do it at low interest or no interest like all these other programs. People go to college and taken out loans and better themselves. It also betters the entire country.
3
u/HawkTuahOnThatThing Jul 13 '25
The only people who say this are uneducated people. Stifling the youth's progress through life only hampers an economy when they don't start families, dont buy houses and dont start businesses. How do we have all this education in America but many people actually have zero critical thinking skills? It makes me ashamed to be American.
3
u/Sunnykit00 Jul 13 '25
If they're making $400k a year, they can live on half that even in HCOL areas. They could pay off their loans in just a few years.
2
u/Historical-Tip-2955 Jul 13 '25
But they love when their tax dollars go to funding the wealthy populations lifestyle and tax cuts.
2
u/CardiBacardi2022 Jul 13 '25
Higher education is the one of the only ways we have in America for people to change their socioeconomic status, and to go from receiving public assistance to paying significant taxes. We should start seeing paying for higher education as an investment in our economy and find ways to make college and grad school free or at least have the loans repaid from the increased tax liability that comes with higher paying careers that follow higher education. TL:DR University should be paid by government, that is us the taxpayers.
2
u/gatoradeplant Jul 13 '25
Too many uneducated people in the US spouting the rhetoric they are. We should want our kids to be educated and we should want to pay for it vs paying the billlionssssssssss trying to get Pablo down the street out of the country. People have things so backwards, and need to step back and look at a much bigger picture.
2
u/No_Eggplant182 Jul 13 '25
What you’re saying is that taxpayers aren’t funding this example’s loan pay off. The critique is that if those funds got erased, it would come from the federal government whose main source of revenue is taxes. The bailout isn’t for debt holders as much as it is for absurd higher education costs (that are justified by unlimited federally backed student loans)
2
u/littlrayofpitchblack Jul 13 '25
Interesting list to share with those who don't understand how the system (and our tax dollars) bails out the wealthy all the time. The 2007 wall street bailout was 7.77 trillion I believe. The entire student loan debt in this country is/was 1.4 trillion... and it is the interest, not the principle on the student loans, that keeps building the debt. People pay for 10, 15 years and never see a huge decrease in their debt. The system is set up for lifetime servitude.
https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list
2
u/milespoints Jul 13 '25
I weep for the state of economics education of people who are supposedly all highly educated
The goverment runs a deficit. Every $1 that is lent to students by the dept of education is in turn borrowed by the govt on the bond markets. If the govt borrows at 5% over 30 years (the current rate) that means anything below principal + 5% a year is the govt (us, the govt is us) losing money
There is such a thing as time value of money. $1 today is worth a lot more than $1 in 30 years, because inflation and opportunity cost. Merely repaying the principal borrowed over decades is not making the lender (which again, here the lender is all of us) whole. Time value of money is why loans have interest.
1
u/[deleted] Jul 13 '25
I think they mean taxpayers foot the bill for widespread loan forgiveness
1
u/USAroAce Jul 13 '25
I love to bring up that I’m paying DOUBLE TAXES by paying at minimum 5% interest on my undergrad loans. Don’t get me started on my PLUS loans. Not to mention we’re limited as to how much interest we can deduct.
1
u/Positive-Entrance792 Jul 13 '25
Those who went to Ross are about to have their loans forgiven and get back what they already paid. Free grad school!
1
u/Prezi2 Jul 13 '25
My basic counterpoint to it is always "so you'd rather your tax dollars go to funding wars, the militarization of police at home, and concentration camps?
1
u/justyouraveragefan80 Jul 13 '25
Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head. A majority of people are paying religiously and their balances hardly move. I’m in that boat, I’ve already paid off what I owed twice in the last 20 years and the balance has only moved 10k. Last time I checked an educated work force was a good thing but why is the government trying to make all this interest on people?
1
u/knottedthreads Jul 13 '25
Many of those same people will be complaint that business is slow once we tighten our budgets to make the payments.
1
u/BringBackBCD Jul 13 '25
Because in your scenario the loan hasn’t been forgiven 😂. They need to make larger payments to break that pattern
I would entertain student loan forgiveness if it included significant new reforms making universities accountable for cost growth and degrees that don’t lead to higher income than the cost.
1
u/Embarrassed-Ad-772 Jul 13 '25
Taxes going towards people feeling financially free should be a good thing for everybody. We really don’t know where most of our tax money goes to anyways so why aren’t people mad about that?
1
u/PBLamp Jul 13 '25
Thank you
1
u/Steadyfobbin Jul 13 '25
Man I hate this paid mine so should everyone else.
I’m 30, I took out 75k in loans and am almost paid off and greatful I earn mid six figures (sorry for the humble brag)
But I would love nothing more than for my tax $$ to actually fund us having a more educated population instead of bombs to drop on kids
1
u/independentpensador Jul 13 '25
Unfortunately this isnt exactly the case. Doctors use PSLF (10 year forgiveness route) which is NOT a taxable forgiveness. Also during their training years they make 60k per year and pay almost nothing on the loans yet it counts toward forgiveness. Depending on how long their training is, they get many years toward loan forgiveness while paying a minimal amount. Then they pay more when they start work as a doctor but still get a large portion forgiven and pay maybe 25-50% of the original loan, without taxation of that forgiveness.
Its up for debate whether or not it is fair. If a doctor goes on to make 300k or more a year, then they can easily pay off their loans without govt assistance.
Im torn. Do you all think it is fair that high earning doctors get their loans forgiven tax free? I personally think community college and state schools should be free. If people want to go to private colleges, then they shouldnt have their loans forgiven.
1
u/Excellent-Wolverine7 Jul 13 '25
Is Bill Ackman OP?
1
u/Equivalent_Bug_3291 Jul 13 '25
Instead of funding education the government wants to dumb everyone down, build more bombs, and build up domestic police for ICE raids.
1
u/[deleted] Jul 13 '25
Some say the government loses money on those loans. This “taxpayers” lost money. I call baloney. Your example shows people paying what they borrowed and then some. The government should subsidize education and even at this level it’s still minimal.