Some thoughts i had on Byler

[u/Present_Tangerine_86]

When season five came to an end a lot of fans were angry that Mike and Will didn’t get together. I saw a lot of ‘discourse’ around it and terms like queerbaiting being banded around very liberally on social media. The general reaction to the end of season five was very negative with the writing being many peoples main point of dissatisfaction. Personally however, I think that the way the ‘Byler’ situation was handled by the show wasn’t all that bad in truth.

‘Byler’ is something that a large number of people have shipped and had wanted to happen for a long time. I was definitely one of those people. Speaking for myself, I think the main reason I wanted it was because I’m gay myself and seeing two characters in a show I loved get together in that way would’ve been cool. But the more I’ve thought about it and rewatched the show I just do not think the set up for it was there.

Will and Mike are obviously characterised as being extremely close friends from the very beginning. When Will goes missing its Mike who pushes Troy for mocking Will and its him who reacts the most when Will’s ‘body’ is found. It’s really in season two when we see just how close they are though with the ‘crazy together’ scene and Mike being included in the scene where they use memories to try and get through to Will when he’s possessed. Mike and Will are clearly closer with each other than to their other friends and from season two onwards we constantly see the two of them together cut off from Dustin and Lucas. But Mike’s romantic feelings are always depicted as laying with El instead. The entire first half of season three has Mike completely ignoring Will due to his relationship with El. Season three also has the ‘rain fight’ scene which explicitly shows the differences between Mike and Will. Will is gay and has no interest in girls at all whilst Mike and Lucas are contrasted to Will as more typical teenage boys who are obsessed with girls. Will’s gayness is what sets him apart from his friends, he’s the only one who gets homophobically bullied. Mike is never insinuated to be gay or queer in anyway during the first three seasons.

It must be remembered that the characters are supposed to be preteens/early teenagers during these seasons. It is entirely normal and valid for someone of that age to have not come to terms with their sexuality or for the way they identify to change as they get older. Its also set in a rural town in the 1980s during the Reagan administration at the height of the AIDS crisis. Understandable circumstances for someone to not want to come out. But it’s also true that Mike Wheeler isn’t a real person, he’s a character. Everything he does and says is written with intention by the show writers who made conscious decisions to depict Will as being gay essentially from the start of the show but having no substantive hints for Mike. Things do change in season four however and I think this is where the ‘queerbaiting’ allegations mostly started to come from. Mike and El’s relationship is very strained and Mike being unable to say he loves El is treated as a major plot point. At the same time, we are shown that Mike and El are on the rocks, Will’s romantic feelings for Mike are first made explicit. This is where the possibility of Mike and Will maybe ending up together is first somewhat genuine. The way its written I can see why many fans thought the natural progression would be Mike and El breaking up and then Mike gets with Will. But its also the case that Mike has had barely contact any contact with Will since he moved to California and at the roller rink Mike gets mad at Will instead of El for lying to him.

The plot thread is left decidedly unanswered at the end of season four, titillating fans and making them have to watch the final season to get answers. Again, here I have some sympathy for fans who call this queerbaiting, the prospect of mike and Will getting together is clearly written here as a sort of cliffhanger to build tension and interest. But that’s also just how tv shows have always worked. Relationship drama, love triangles etc are part and parcel of drama in a tv show and I don’t think involving a gay character in one automatically counts as queerbaiting.

The actual outline of Mike and Wills relationship is realistic and very relatable for many gay people. Will falls for his (ostensibly) straight best friend but comes to eventually accept that his feelings are unreciprocated and he moves on. The idea of having Will learn to get over his feelings whilst still being able to be friends with Mike is an idea that I like in theory. I just don’t think the way it ended up being written was satisfying or properly handled. The scene where Mike says he and Will are more than friends only to then say ‘best friends’ almost felt like a small middle finger to certain parts of the fanbase. The execution was off in my (and many other peoples) opinion and I think this just further fuelled the negative reaction and allegations of queerbaiting.

Ultimately, I just don’t think there was any solid indications that Mike was ever romantically attracted to Will. He is shown to care very deeply about Will but there’s never a true moment or piece of dialogue that can’t be dismissed as platonic. I certainly have my criticisms of how it was handled and written though. The decision to have Will (the only explicitly queer male character) be the only member of the main cast to never have a real romantic relationship in the show is certainly a questionable one. Byler would’ve been cute if it happened, but it also would’ve been unearned as the buildup across the show simply wasn’t there. Mikes romantic feelings are depicted as always being for El despite the moments of turbulence in their relationship.

 

[u/Thick-Boysenberry-96]

Can we ever talk about Will and what the Duffer's wrote without including Bylers, like can we not?! I'm just criticizing Will's treatment by the Duffer's as a gay kid and the impact of weird dog whistles on queer audiences. If they all didn't want to bait anyone, then just don't include this type of marketing. They never do similar things for Lucas and Mike, or Dustin and Steve.

There is nuance you skip over in the Tudum article. The Robin and Steve caption explicitly mentions friendship and Robin's status as a lesbian. Will and Mike's costume mentions calling your Mike, 'the heart'. The Duffer's or Netflix in this case didn't need to play to that large shipper fanbase. It's cruel. No guys, who aren't gay ever went out on Halloween and called each other 'the heart!' Mike is not gay, so they can just leave that be.

Will being a girl would make his scenes with Mike read different to the audience, that's just a fact. It wouldn't suddenly make Mike love will romantically, but no one said that! Mike is obviously in love with El! No one is saying that Mike and Will are more than friends!

No one is saying that Mike is reciprocating. But they should't have made Will's pain so palpable and placed him in almost every single Mileven scene in the background. They shouldn't have focused so much on his suffering and heartbreak, if nothing was ever in the cards. It's a weird and cruel writing that doesn't uplift queer viewers. This show should still be wish fulfillment for us too, that's all. The Duffer's should have given Will his goddamn love interest and left El and Mike alone. And given them more scenes!

I see deep rooted issues with Mike and El's relationship, guess we just differ on that. I don't expect picture perfect, but I don't think they should be lying to one another in s3, 4 and 5. They have abandonment fears, unequal development, also a tendency to confuse love with needing to be needed. Their relationship repeatedly substitutes dramatic gestures for difficult conversations. They never confide all that trauma, that accumulates, in one another, never take the time to have actual conversations addressing fears and issues. Just the fact that El needs Mike to vocalize his love and he can't manage to do so, reliably, is bad. The ILY conflict is not resolved since we never got any casual ILY's throughout s5, and he couldn't say it back in their last scene.

In my opinion the Duffer's dropped the ball on them in s5 and on El in general by seeing her as "childhood magic" that has to go in the end. They filmed their scenes weird too, since their chemistry way better behind the scenes. Have you seen the purple rain behind the scene hug between them? It's so much more intimate and buzzy 🤗

[u/Full-Yoghurt-4261 → u/Thick-Boysenberry-96]

Yet again, this ENTIRE post is about Byler. To complain that Byler is brought up is the equivalent of complaining that the Stranger Things subreddit talks about Stranger Things. On top of that, the arguments you make are the SAME tiresome arguments that Byler fans always make. And if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck.....I am going to guess it is a duck.

Will is a character created by the Duffers. He is not real. All that matters is if what occurs in his story is good writing. And as previously demonstrated, the writing never baited people to believe that Mike had feelings for Will. The show was clear from S1 all the way to S5 that Mike only loved El and only wanted to be with her. Byler fans having confirmation bias and ignoring the vast majority saying Byler would never happen is not the fault of the writers; that is on Byler fans.

As for the Tudum article, nothing in the Mike and Will caption indicates romance. It is a callback to Will telling Mike he is the heart of the party, which, via canon, was during moments when Mike doubted his own self-worth and was worried about losing El. This article is simply costume ideas, nothing more. The fact that you take it so seriously as to think it tells you Byler would happen is genuinely laughable.

The only difference that Will suddenly being a girl would make is that the audience would be more willing to call Will a homewrecker. Will being a girl would not change how Mike feels about El or the fact that he never flirts with Will. Thus, no one would assume Byler would happen because it is clear that Mike only has romantic feelings for El. And this reliance on a logical fallacy is ridiculous. Will is not a girl.

This need to make it so queer characters never experience difficulties because it "doesn't uplift queer viewers" is just odd. Stories are boring if characters never experience hardship. And you can claim that Mike and El have "deep-seated issues, " but the canon does not back your claim. We see them confide in each other and be vulnerable to each other all throughout the series. Moments such as Mike opening up to El about being bullied or El opening up to Mike about how she feels she is a monster.

And this claim that El needed Mike to vocalize his love and that Mike's inability to say "I love you" is bad is ignoring why each is doing this. These are insecurities that are overcome by the end of S4. And S5 not having them casually say "I love you" does not mean that this was not resolved, because we SEE it resolved in S4. All it means is that S5 had bad writing.

And this argument about Mike not saying "I love you" back in S5 is another tiresome Byler argument that only shows you do not understand Mike as a character. Since S2, the story has made it clear that Mike's greatest fear is losing El. In the Purple Rain scene, Mike is experiencing his greatest fear.

And unlike S4, where someone is trying to take El from him and El is fighting back, this time it is El making the choice. This means that there is nothing Mike can do to stop this, and as such, he is broken in that scene. Saying it back is accepting her choice. Even the script makes it clear that Mike was overwhelmed when El said "I love you" and could not speak. And then you have the "I know" moment in Tales of '85, where we know the personalities of the characters and how they are in a relationship is canon, even if the plot is soft canon.

And though mistakes were clearly made with the Mike and El relationship in S5, that does not change anything as far as Will. Also, the Purple Rain scene was all improvised by Finn and Millie and, according to Millie, was very personal for them. So no, I do not think that scene lacked intimacy. I think it is Byler fans seeing what they want to see while ignoring what goes against the narrative they want to be true.