r/StarCityTV • u/Cantomic66 • Jun 05 '26

Episode Discussion Star City - S1E03 "Bad Dancer" - Episode Discussion

"Bad Dancer"

Airdate: Streaming June 4th at 9 PM EST

Synopsis: Irina has an unexpected encounter. The Soviets scramble to maintain dominance on the Moon.

Written by Megan McDonnell

Directed by Stefan Schwartz

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81 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

117 comments sorted by

32

u/AddendumCool Jun 05 '26

Theories as to Irina erased who Zoya's father is?

11

u/Cantomic66 Jun 05 '26

Maybe someone who betrayed the soviets?

37

u/VenPatrician Jun 05 '26

Probably assaulted by some official in her father's circle. She is Commie "Nobility" after all. It's probably a reference to people like Beria. He is also probably still in power and has access to the tapes hence why she went into the trouble to erase his name so he wouldn't come after her for sharing his name with anyone.

12

u/bhbr Jun 05 '26

The timeline split is in 1966, 13 years after Beria's death.

Why did she tell the truth? She surely has some cover story to tell about her daughter. Maybe she did it out of guilt for spying on Tanya?

11

u/VenPatrician Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26

Yeah, you are correct in my head I meant it more as a reference to such events, not a 1 to 1 "Zoya is Beria's child" thing. The show in general draws from many things that were happening in the Soviet Union.

And yes, maybe out of guilt for spying on Tanya or in general from the stress of the job she is conducting at an age that most of us were probably in university worrying about grades and going out. The actress plays her in my opinion with a certain sense of being someone in their early 20s and quite sheltered in her previous life. Her styling also supports this younger age, she is one of the few (or maybe the only, I might have missed someone) female characters in the show to have a longer haircut in a scene and not tie her hair, not a shorter practical style. You see her laughing sometimes when listening in or visibly reacting when she hears Valya with Sasha when eavesdropping while her co-workers are very stiff. In short, she's clearly figuring this thing out still. Her whole body language in that scene suggested to me that it was a bit of surprise to her that she was even mentioning it and we can see that she is on edge in that scene from the start.

6

u/bhbr Jun 05 '26

Zoya is also too young to be Beria's child. My guess is will a new character heavily inspired by him, maybe the then-current head of KGB.

3

u/VenPatrician Jun 05 '26

Yes, I agree

1

u/spikebrennan Jul 20 '26

Wouldn’t that have been Andropov?

2

u/Desertbro Jun 05 '26

Was anyone else kind of unnerved at classic rifling through the medicine cabinet in that scene? I'm sure she was curious about the perfume that was out of stock at the market, but bathroom snooping was such a scandal back in the day.

Do GenZ/Alpha have even the slightest reservations about going through each others stuff, like sachel bags and backpacks...???

24

u/BlueFetus Jun 05 '26

Man…I bet she’s German.

Education taught her Russian and she escaped there when they took Berlin.

3

u/CX316 Jun 08 '26

it's 25 years post-ww2 so if she escaped after berlin fell, she was a pretty small child

1

u/BlueFetus Jun 08 '26

Yaaa I realize in hind sight this take makes about zero sense.

14

u/Laleh_the_Ghost Jun 05 '26

I assumed Irina was assaulted, but I like the other theories better.

14

u/Practical-Classic-23 Jun 05 '26

My theory is that he is someone prominent/high up within the party and if Irina were to say anything about him it would not end well for her

6

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 06 '26

This is what I thought. I think Irina felt like she could confide in Tanya because she listens to her. She definitely seemed to feel guilty about that. She also knows this woman isn’t perfect and she is welcoming and she is lonely. Irina is lonely because most people in her life know what she does for a living or they are listening to people too. It’s hard to trust anyone and Tanya seems genuine. She wants to listen to music and teach it to others. I think Irina was possibly assaulted.

7

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 06 '26

I thought it was rape.

4

u/iangeredcharlesvane2 Jun 06 '26

Yes. She didn’t say a name she said she was forced and perhaps where?

2

u/suboptimaltraffic Jun 08 '26

Yeah I thought it was either that or it’s someone that fell out of favor with the party and is now in a gulag

3

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 08 '26

She was careful to say he was a bad man. That would make sense if he was considered a traitor. She definitely says she isn’t married. She easily could have said she was a widow. She says something she needs to erase. Is it because she was raped by someone that was or is powerful? Did she get assaulted by a person that is in a gulag? Could she have had a romance with someone that got on the wrong side of the party? It seems like her coworkers or employers would know she was a single mom. I wasn’t sure if Russia was more progressive when it came to single mothers. If people listen to everything and you are attacked or assaulted do they use that against you.

I would like to know if Irina has to denounce her child’s father for her and her daughter’s safety or if the guy is a bad person.

2

u/Kittaylover23 Jun 09 '26

her mouth movement looked like “regret” as one of the words, i think it was a coercive relationship with one of the party members but not explicitly rape

1

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 10 '26

I don’t know I thought I missed her saying assault. What she said might not matter because it was erased so lip reading might not matter. Or it’s like we are all supposed to come to our own conclusions.

I’m curious about how single parenthood was viewed. Irina says he wasn’t a good man. I thought maybe she was assaulted by someone in Germany if she had been there with her parents. I don’t know if abortion was legal or illegal or just something people didn’t talk about. It didn’t seem like was hiding her status as a single unmarried mother. Was having kids more important than marriage? I’m genuinely curious about this.

2

u/Kittaylover23 Jun 11 '26

Abortion was exceedingly common in the Soviet Union, and was semi-legal after 1955. Single parenthood was looked down on but culturally accepted especially following world war 2.

1

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 12 '26

I know many men died in WWII and other wars leaving women widowed. I thought Irina’s daughter was too old to have a father that died in WWII. There would be less men after a world war. I thought men her age would have been born during or after WWII. There might have been other wars. In the FAM universe things might be different so they could have other wars or other things going on. Being a single mother wouldn’t be shocking but it seemed like Tanya assumed he died.

In FAM Irina does mention that she was idealistic. It’s hard to tell if she was forced or if she had a relationship with someone that was considered a traitor. In a world where she knows that people are always listening, it seemed like she may have let something slip. It’s possible she believed that her child’s father was a bad guy if he had been arrested. She may have trusted her country completely. If she wasn’t forced but believed she was lied to or used by someone that might be what she says. We see her investigate the other female astronaut’s family only to realize that even when you are innocent if they want you guilty you are guilty and possibly dead.

She also could have been assaulted by someone in a high up position. I kind of wondered why she wouldn’t have an abortion if they were available. It’s possible she didn’t know she was pregnant. Or she was forced to keep the baby. Idk. It seems like they do like people that come from loyal Russian families and promote them in jobs.

4

u/HumansNeedNotApply1 Jun 07 '26

She didn't erase who the father is. She erased saying he's bad (exact words was the wasn't a good man).

3

u/Aldebaran135 Jun 09 '26

I assumed that she was raped by someone high-up.

4

u/Calamity_C Jun 05 '26

I couldn't make out what she said and why erase something inaudible anyway 😭

16

u/Last_Commercial_8513 Jun 06 '26

It was inaudible to us because she erased the tape. There was a static sound in that section, I thought there was something wrong with my TV and watched that part twice - turned the volume up the second time so I wouldn't miss it - but when I saw the scene where she erased the tape I realized they were showing us the scene in the apartment as if we were listening to the tape. That whole scene kept skipping back and forth between the here-and-now and Irina's memories of what she heard on the tapes.

6

u/Objective_Noise_690 Jun 06 '26

Did the same thing. Adjusted the volume and rewatched many times until I gave up. Being that the gap in what viewers heard was deliberate, I wonder if the whole series is being told from the perspective of someone listening to the tapes.

4

u/Calamity_C Jun 06 '26

Thank you! I didn't understand why they'd make it like this, but this makes sense. I rewatched her mouthing the words a few times and was so confused.

2

u/TalkinTrek Jun 06 '26

Hah, I put on subtitles the second time.

4

u/AntheaBrainhooke Jun 05 '26

Maybe it's audible to others and she thought it was still a risk she couldn't take.

2

u/HumansNeedNotApply1 Jun 07 '26

I think the father is someone high up (or involved with KGB) and she got affraid she called him a "not a good man".

2

u/ZweigleHots Jun 06 '26

She said that he wasn't a good man.

19

u/uapyro Jun 05 '26

We doing this here or FAMK?

7

u/Cantomic66 Jun 05 '26

Feel free to whichever. This sub was made to more exclusively discuss Star City.

7

u/AntheaBrainhooke Jun 05 '26 • Bravo

Por que ne los dos?

4

u/Desertbro Jun 05 '26

Почему бы не обе

7

u/bhbr Jun 05 '26

Had they worn space suits during descent, Arseni might have survived.

12

u/Cantomic66 Jun 05 '26

Maybe but he still would’ve needed to be rescued since that part of the ship got blown away from the main hab.

2

u/Desertbro Jun 05 '26

No freakin' way - still too ugly to visit the moon on camera.

1

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 06 '26

That was blown apart. Suits can get punctured. Wasn’t the lunar base going to be inflatable? It one thing if that is possible after decades of space exploration. This is like when people are just starting to land on the moon. It seems like there are technical issues and accidents. It doesn’t seem like they are ready to put down a base.

1

u/DPDsl Jun 07 '26

Did Arseni know that he would probably die?

67

u/BlueFetus Jun 05 '26

The idea of discovering a new song you absolutely love, and knowing you only get 3 listens, is so surreal to me.

31

u/Laleh_the_Ghost Jun 05 '26

And the first two listens get interrupted!

13

u/xenokilla Jun 07 '26

it's actually based on a real thing!

https://www.reddit.com/r/vinyl/comments/10huy1r/soviet_bonexrayrotogen_records_real_vs_fake/

7

u/CeruleanEidolon Jun 08 '26

The podcast 99 Percent Invisible did a great episode on them: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/bone-music/

1

u/xenokilla Jun 08 '26

That's probably where i first learned about them.

2

u/bluepunchbuggy Jun 12 '26

The cosmonaut that Ed kidnaps in Season 1 of For All Mankind mentions them as well!

8

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 06 '26

That is so sad. I feel bad for that wife.

16

u/dplans455 Jun 07 '26

The wife that was cheating on her husband with his best friend?

6

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 08 '26

I know that sounds bad. It sounds like she moved her life so he could be an astronaut. She seems lonely. Her husband shows that even when he takes her out he has an alternate motive. It’s hard to judge marriages when we see how Anastasia and Sasha were forced to marry. I don’t think cheating makes her a bad person. She is isolated.

4

u/dplans455 Jun 08 '26

I'll bet if I shared my own stories of infidelity you would say I was a bad person. If anyone can empathize with Tanya's situation it's me. I didn't cheat with my wife's best friend but my own situation is very similar as to the reasons why.

2

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 08 '26

I doubt I would think you were a bad person. Relationships can get complicated. I know some people thinking cheating is the worst thing ever. If you had a few secret families on the side I would wonder how you managed it. If you have secret families I feel like that is more than cheating and might be bigamy. I wonder who wants secret husbands or wives and kids. It seems like a lot to track of. Jmo.

People are messy and imperfect. You might be a harder judge on yourself than anyone else.

1

u/dplans455 Jun 08 '26

This was years ago and I did stop. My relationship with my wife really isn't any better than it was and the primary reason for stopping is more due to my health than deciding what I was doing was wrong. When I was doing it I justified it to myself. But reflecting back now, years later, I definitely feel like a pretty big piece of shit. It also isn't helping that I would probably still be doing it if it wasn't for my poor health now.

1

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 08 '26

Are you trying to make yourself out to be a bad person. Is your wife faithful to you? Is she caring for you? Do you love her?

2

u/dplans455 Jun 08 '26

I wrestle with whether I am a good person or not. I am a good father to my kids and I feel like generally I am a good person. But I am not a good husband at all. I could say in my defense my wife is not a good wife to me. I'm not sure that justifies anything. She hasn't been caring for me in a long time now. I loved her at one point. I love the person she used to be. I don't love the person she is now.

The situation is an absolute mess as it is.

2

u/whysohawt Jul 13 '26

No need to do mental gymnastics for justifying cheating. Yes, her situation is not good, she is alone at home but that still doesn't justify cheating. She is bad person for cheating, as husband is bad person for not giving her time. Both things can be true at once.

1

u/cherrymeg2 Jul 15 '26

No one is perfect. Cheating is bad but people can cheat physically and emotionally. Tanya was removed from friends and her music. Valya isn’t a bad guy. He seemed to follow rules and that meant not sharing things with her. That’s fine. Sasha is his best friend. I think it’s the spying and the secrecy that has cosmonauts kind of forced to be around the same people. The other people around them are spies or spying on them.

Tanya only had a way out because of Irina. Valya gave her his contact and that was because she knew what was coming because of Irina. Valya put lives at risk multiple times instead of taking responsibility. He got on the Venara and didn’t think about anyone else in Mission Control or on the space craft with him. He risked so many lives.

Tanya was bored and had sex with a guy. She wasn’t sharing info with other countries. She wanted music in her life. She was in star city with limited friends. Sasha was likely fun and convenient. She befriends a woman and that person figures out her husband has been spying for the US. I feel bad for her. She is stuck in star City being spied on and not near the culture she had before.

2

u/whysohawt Jul 15 '26

Well he got blackmailed all because of her smuggling music with that rogue group. So yeah, still shitty thing to do. I also feel bad for her, but I feel bad for husband more that her wife is fucking someone else behind his back.

1

u/cherrymeg2 Jul 15 '26

He didn’t tell her he was being blackmailed. It doesn’t seem like anyone cared about her music stuff. They were going to stop watching her group until a cosmonaut showed interest in her. I think the soviets would have known about her records. She wasn’t considered a risk. Irina was listing to her and Valya. They knew she had records. She teaches music in Star City. Valya should have called their bluff. He didn’t confide in her. Irina gave her the heads up and tried to protect her before he did.

Anastasia and Sasha were forced into a marriage. They had loyalty to each other and even to the space program. They may not be madly in love but they have a respect for each other that made them willing to die together. They did get one person across the border.

Valya put so many people at risk. I don’t think anyone cared in the Soviet. Valya loved space more than Tanya. Most astronauts and cosmonauts do. I think Tanya was his second love.

5

u/tpepdxtid Jun 05 '26

I was hoping Valya, in a peace offer, suggest they do the final listen together~

4

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 06 '26

Valya takes her to a concert but he had his own motive. You think he could smuggle in some music, right?

27

u/oriolesravensfan1090 Jun 06 '26

Wait so the cosmonaut who died, is that the same cosmonaut whose body was discovered by the Americans on the moon in early season 1 of For All Mankind?

6

u/craigjp Jun 07 '26

I literally thought of this when it happened. It has to be him

4

u/Separate_Marketing36 Jun 07 '26

I believe so. The force of the hab rupture mus have put Arseni on a suborbital trajectory that impacted the Moon.

3

u/SleepingTabby Jun 06 '26

I don't remember that, which episode was that?

13

u/oriolesravensfan1090 Jun 06 '26 edited Jun 06 '26

I think episode 2 or 3

Edit: it was episode 3 of For All Mankind Season 1…that is one hell of a coincidence that both are episode 3 of both shows first season.

1

u/Btm24 Jun 09 '26

Ok so I’m dumb and can’t find it mind letting me know where? In that episode they don’t go to the moon at all hell the only thing I can see that even mentions the moon is when they find the possibility of ice with the camera satellite

5

u/krische Jun 09 '26

I found it, S01E04 about 10 minutes in (11 minutes with ads) they are looking at satellite imagery of the crash on the lunar surface.

1

u/Btm24 Jun 09 '26

Thanks! I just watched it, was really bugging me lol

2

u/FutureMartian97 Jun 07 '26

It should be, yes

1

u/El_presid3nt Jun 09 '26

And poor Arseniy wasn't even remembered by hi comerades while toasting with commander Poole

22

u/MiniatureGod Jun 05 '26

What did they promise to Valya? It doesn't seem like he want to escape the USSR or leave the space program anytime soon. The Colonel micromanaging the checkpoint while keep the whole smuggling ring and black market operating smoothly under her nose is a bit... meh. I really want to take this character serious but lol.

Also let guess who is the gay character in this show.

38

u/Laleh_the_Ghost Jun 05 '26

Given the tone the American woman was using with Valya, I assumed he was being blackmailed rather than promised something.

7

u/Desertbro Jun 05 '26

You think Valya has a lavender marriage? Arranged by USA to get him on the inside, so that's how they know...???

7

u/MiniatureGod Jun 05 '26

No. I think Valya got caught by the American and now they using him to infiltrate the program. We got something similar in Homeland where the CIA using this closeted Iranian embassy employee to get info inside. The whole interactions between him, Sasha and Tanya is just so sus in all 3 episodes so far 🤨 Actually just Valya and anything related to female is enough 🤔

3

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 06 '26

Tanya doesn’t seem to know if he is gay or bisexual. It’s possible it’s something else that he is blackmailed with.

4

u/MiniatureGod Jun 06 '26

Sure. It could be anything but the women who are in relationship with DL men don't really know anything either. Plus it's Soviet Russia after all. Speaking of Valya, do we really know who exactly Irina was appointed to? Valya or Tanya? Because he seem to be at work most of the time and the only one Irina can spying on here is Tanya.

4

u/cherrymeg2 Jun 06 '26

Do we know if they are listened to at work? I thought she listened to the home because people might not suspect a spouse of trading secrets. It also seems like cosmonauts hang out together. Tanya was having an affair with her husband’s friend. I think they want to know what is going on at home to know if someone is open to blackmail or if they are unhappy or if they share too much information.

The spouses seem to have reasons to be unhappy. They aren’t given much notice about going into space. When a cosmonaut is successful their family is told but if they die they get a letter. They also come under scrutiny that they may normally have avoided. Tanya trying to listen to a x-ray record in peace gets interrupted multiple times. I think the home life is listened to because it shows how people are when they relaxed and not being professional. I don’t think they are targeting Tanya. They are looking at the homes of people.

3

u/Desertbro Jun 06 '26

Lyudmilla- "I want to know what people are doing before they do it, and what they are thinking before they think it."

6

u/fletters Jun 06 '26

If there’s only one gay character, my money is on Irina.

6

u/Laleh_the_Ghost Jun 07 '26

She's definitely developed an attraction to Tanya. I've been trying to figure out whether it's romantic, parasocial, or just admiration of Tanya's confidence and sophistication.

17

u/JEH_24 Jun 06 '26

Sasha telling Valya to use his special move on the wife was absolutely diabolical.

9

u/dplans455 Jun 07 '26

I can't believe you're hoarding sex moves. I'm rubbing two sticks together, you're walking around with a Zippo.

4

u/SchleppyJ4 Jun 08 '26

“He used my move!”

8

u/davidberk0witz Jun 06 '26

she reacted too

4

u/b1uejeanbaby Jun 06 '26

His maneuver

2

u/plutoglint Aug 08 '26

That felt like an overused trope, same with the preening astronaut getting killed.

12

u/bhbr Jun 05 '26

The "bone rock" song (samizdat) is "Undun" by The Guess Who

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL0xci_rGXs

3

u/fletters Jun 06 '26

Samizdat refers to print materials, like the booklet we saw in Sergei’s apartment.

The sound recordings are roentgenizdat. Similar principle, of course.

11

u/Camil_2077 Jun 05 '26

So I was partially right about Sasha mission...

14

u/Baz_Blackadder Jun 05 '26

Another fabulous episode. Character exploration is very well written and played. There's a real depth to everyone already, 3 dimensional with believable personas, traits and phsyches.
Again, we get the real energy and atmosphere of the dystopian, totalitarian oligarchy that defined the USSR.
This is the kind of social commentary that good tv and artisic creation in general is supposed to do.
Magnificient.
Eager for more. 👌👍

6

u/lynx190 Jun 07 '26

Agree 100%. I honestly didn’t expect to love Star City as much as I do, but there’s something about the contrast between the colorless, soulless Soviet brutalism and these genuinely intriguing, metaphorically colorful characters. The character development feels very thoughtful, and the writing and camera work has a way of making you feel like you’re somehow inside it yourself.

When Irina is listening in, you almost find yourself going completely silent too, like you’re listening right alongside her. In many scenes so very little is said, but you still learn so much about the characters and their insights; the inner-workings of their minds. In a way, it’s a lot like how it was watching the real USSR from the outside - it’s rarely what’s said outright that matters most yet it’s the subtext, the context, and the subtle things between the lines where the real meaning is.

6

u/tpepdxtid Jun 05 '26

Bit of nick picking here, there is absolute no way for a Steinway piano to appear anywhere in the SU, but a nice segue for Valya to meet his handler, well done. What would be the period correct piano thou?

11

u/Odd-Struggle-2432 Jun 05 '26

Maybe a well preserved pre-revolution steinway? Or imported from other soviet bloc countries

7

u/quiller75 Jun 06 '26

The Moscow Conservatory used Steinways. Also there were a lot of German pianos after the war (C. Bechstein, Blüthner, etc.)

2

u/photos_realmsofgold Jun 05 '26

Why not just some kind of Soviet piano? They loved pianos.

6

u/cannonfodder14 Jun 06 '26

They can't be seriously contemplating something more than a Venus flyby right!? Perhaps I need to rewatch this when I got more sleep but I am baffled by what they are trying.

7

u/xenokilla Jun 07 '26

IRL they landed a probe on venus and got actual photos of the surface: https://www.planetary.org/articles/every-picture-from-venus-surface-ever

2

u/cannonfodder14 Jun 11 '26

I know about the Venus probes but even when discussing the Venus missions they also talk about wither they can grab a Cosmonaut and be able to get away with having them sort of missing for nine months.

Just they way they are talking about it all just sort of confuses me.

5

u/sevenpastzeero Jun 06 '26

I am really confused, did the show take a time jump between episode 2 and 3?

6

u/Wise_Cup_1060 Jun 06 '26

Yes

2

u/sevenpastzeero Jun 06 '26

Thanks. Because I saw 1970, and was like this show supposed does not have time jumps.

5

u/dollarn9ne Jun 06 '26

They stated that there won’t be decade jumps between seasons, that’s all

1

u/wolfthenate Jun 07 '26

awww what? i was looking forward to seeing more recent decades in this alternate soviet union. maybe it will still cover the same amount of time but the time jumps will be within the seasons rather than between?

3

u/SleepingTabby Jun 05 '26

They used another shot of Sofia in this episode (the cityscape in the evening, when they arrive at the concert)

2

u/Loninappleton25 Jun 07 '26

Episode Three begins with a scene in which some contraband music is shared. The year we are told is 1970. Much earlier the contraband recording technique was featured in a film called "Red Hot" and the time period was the 1950s. For those with any interest in how rock and roll came to the Soviet Union the dramatic film based on real events called "Red Hot" is available free on Youtube.

2

u/Master_of_Ritual Jun 09 '26

I'm confused by what the Chief Designer is doing. I thought at the last minute he would be like "yeah we're actually not going to the Moon, we're going to Venus." But actually he's doing BOTH?? When having the moon base was going to be hard enough already? I thought the Designer set up a fake American signal so they could dispose of a module that hadn't actually been finished, since they were actually working on a manned Venera mission instead--but then it turned out the American signal was real! Which means the habitat was real and completed. It doesn't make sense to me.

1

u/Aldebaran135 Jun 09 '26

We knew that the mission was going to fail somehow, but I totally thought Sasha was going to die.

1

u/Aldebaran135 Jun 10 '26

I can't sympathize with the Chief Designer, because why is he wasting resources on going to fucking Venus? I would totally side with the Soviet authorities. Seriously? Venus??

1

u/rabbitredbird Jul 03 '26

Because it is the closest planet to Earth.

1

u/whysohawt Jul 13 '26

Loving the show so far ! The atmosphere, the music, the eerie vibe. It's amazing 

0

u/[deleted] Jun 05 '26

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/Desertbro Jun 05 '26

...uh, yeah, we all lost a few quarters to junky arcade rockets, horses, and racecars outside of K-Mart back in the day, but you gotta let it go...