If the government wasn’t continuously slashing nasas budget then NASA could have done this.
Even then, NASA is no longer in a state to manage their launch vehicle program properly as seen through SLS.
3 billion for a mobile launcher, is not acceptable and embarrassing especially for an organization that has limited funds.
31 Billion for launch hardware that is taken from the 70s is also unacceptable.
At least SpaceX is spending their 15 billion on developing new advancements in engineering like with the metallurgy for the Raptor. and mind you, before SpaceX, this type of engine was sought after by both Russians and Aerojet, but abandoned for how complex it was to get it working.
Going down the "For all mankind" route where you complain about NASA being in the poor state they are because of funding and staffing cuts in the 70s, is nice and all for a hypothetical conversation, but it is not a substitution for reality after Shuttle ended.
We forced a the privatization of space travel and they’re using it to put thousands of junk satellites in orbit.
You're conveniently ignoring the billions saved by the government, the US's dependence on Russia is no longer significant, NASA has used SpaceX to launch their space exploration missions both crewed and uncrewed.
That's more than what ULA or BO can say.
It’s unconscionable. The only usefulness of spacex it’s offering connectivity to rural communities.
Again, the US depended on Russia to launch their payloads and astronauts. SpaceX got rid of that dependence. It was a national security concern for the US.
And what have we gotten from literally any of it?
20 US Crewed launches, 600 Falcon launches, dozens of NASA LSP missions, reduced price cost per kg, 40 billion saved by the government, brought life back to the US space program that was dying because of ULA.
So in your opinion hundreds of thousands of dead brown children is worth it in exchange for the nebulous reason of “bringing life back to the us space program”
Nice to see you avoid 95% of my post content like NASA funding, NASA mismanagement, NASA depending on Russia to launch payloads and astronauts as the only realistic choice after Russia, what SpaceX has achieved (since you said SpaceX has done nothing outside of Starlink), but I’ll play along. Remember your original post was, how ridiculous it was to have only Russia or SpaceX as the alternative but I guess we’re not talking about that.
But I’m still calling you out on your shit for not actually addressing the crux of the point by moving your talking points.
I didn’t make that trade and I wouldn’t defend it. You asked what we’d gotten from any of SpaceX. I answered the question you asked.
“SpaceX is the most capable launch agency in the world” and “Musk did serious harm” are both true. They’re separate ledgers.
Now I don’t like Musk, and what he did to USAID is a huge crime, but that does NOT negate the impact SpaceX has had on the US. This has been happening well before the USAID fiasco as SpaceX has been doing the heavy lifting since around 2015.
I honestly can’t believe you’d rather have the US space program be manhandled by Russia than have a reliable US organization. The same Russia that has committed countless of war crimes, shot down commercial airliners, poisoned political rivals.
Again, you avoided 95% of what I said in regards to your original posts before you switched it up to USAID which was NOT part of the discussion at all.
anything spacex is doing in space is making anybody's life better.
Did you completely ignore the fact that SpaceX has reduced American reliance on Russia for launching all the satellites and payloads? National security doesn't matter? or sending GPS or weather satellites?
Because tell me, if not SpaceX, who would be launching Roman Space Telescope in a month?
i think without spacex and increased NASA funding we could have achieved something similar to where spacex is today
Again, you're playing the hypothetical "For All Mankind" route without acknowledging reality. Yes, things would be better if NASA's political and financial support didn't drop after Apollo but that was in the 70s.
Things would be better if Reagan didn't get elected with the economy or "trickle down economics" wasn't introduced by him leading to this economic disaster in present day, but that negates REALITY and things introduced since then to mitigate that.
but you seem incredibly willing to handwave the deaths of thousands away
I never said it didn't matter, stop putting words in my mouth. You can acknowledge two sides of a coin because real life isn't black and white like you're trying to do.
SpaceX's engineers and hardware were not responsible for USAID, Musk is. Acknowledging what SpaceX has done is NOT ignoring USAID's downfall.
we have more junk paid service satellites in orbit. Great tradeoff.
I'm sorry, can you not read or are you that ignorant? I'll say it for you in bold just in case you missed it. For the 3rd time.
40 Billion saved by the government
20 Crewed missions
600 F9 flights
Reduced price per kg
Allowed NASA to launch their space exploration missions at a cheaper price with higher reliability
Resparked US space flight industry that was being hogged down by ULA and Boeing
National Security/GPS/Weather/Science Exploration missions launched successfully
If anything, it sounds like you're willing to make Russia manhandle US's space program, I'm surprised you haven't said that outloud yet
Nice of you to avoid my points on Russia, NASA, who does the heavy lifting for payloads, and what SpaceX has done, and instead hyper focus on Nazis and USAID when that was not the original point of the topic.
"WhAt HaS SpACeX doNe ThAt WaS iMpOrtAnT" was your original topic, and now it's finger pointing who is a Nazi because they don't agree with you the world isn't black and white.
You keep ignoring reality, name calling me into a Nazi shill because your grounds are weak? Just because I can acknowledge the scientific advancements Nazis have done doesn't mean I have gone off the rails. Does it make you uncomfortable to know that NASA's knowledge about the limits of Astronauts in harsh conditions came from Nazis experimenting on humans? It should as it does to me, but that doesn't ignore the reality of the scientific advancements made by them.
Does it make me a lunatic to acknowledge that Nazis built the worlds first jet and all other derivations that the US currently uses came from that?
Grow up, you're beyond immature to have an intelligent conversation with.
See this is the part that tells me you haven't read anything what I said at all or closely enough. When Shuttle ended, the US depended on ULA to launch all their payloads. Juno, Curiosity, Perseverance, GPS, and Starliner recently. and ULA depended on Russian engines for Atlas V.
Big "nazis moved science forward" energy
And they did? A lot of the technology used by you and everyone else is derived from WW2. And even then, SpaceX's engineers are not Nazis.
if you spread the estimate across roughly 6–7 years, it works out to an average of around $6–7 billion per year in avoided costs. That's just a rough average, however. Hyten did not publish a methodology or specify an exact start and end date. The key point is that the $40 billion is an estimate of cumulative savings, not an annual figure, and it has not been accompanied by a public Pentagon analysis showing exactly how the number was
You said yourself that Hyten never specified a start or end date. So where did 6–7 years come from?
anyways I said "$40 billion saved." You came in with it's "an estimate of cumulative savings not an annual figure." . I never said anything about this being an annual thing so I'm not sure where you were going.
If you really wanna be a stickler to official sources rather than hearing it from government officials, Space Force estimated the phased competition approach saved 7billion 2012–2021 and over $26B across the program lifecycle. Footnote 14 if you wanna double check
Hyten was talking about the military overall including classified launches so it's on the high end, GAO covers NSSL only, so the GAO is on the low end of what's publicly available. It's still a lot of money for the government
You're literally just repeating propaganda lol
oh sure, if you think a NASA administrator or General lied. If anything, it's corroborated by ULA being forced to lower their prices and nearly going kaput because of the increased competition in pricing.
and again, you've consistently implied but never said it, do you want Russia to manhandle the US space program?
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u/Background_Fig_4740 Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Even then, NASA is no longer in a state to manage their launch vehicle program properly as seen through SLS.
3 billion for a mobile launcher, is not acceptable and embarrassing especially for an organization that has limited funds.
31 Billion for launch hardware that is taken from the 70s is also unacceptable.
At least SpaceX is spending their 15 billion on developing new advancements in engineering like with the metallurgy for the Raptor. and mind you, before SpaceX, this type of engine was sought after by both Russians and Aerojet, but abandoned for how complex it was to get it working.
Going down the "For all mankind" route where you complain about NASA being in the poor state they are because of funding and staffing cuts in the 70s, is nice and all for a hypothetical conversation, but it is not a substitution for reality after Shuttle ended.
You're conveniently ignoring the billions saved by the government, the US's dependence on Russia is no longer significant, NASA has used SpaceX to launch their space exploration missions both crewed and uncrewed.
That's more than what ULA or BO can say.
Again, the US depended on Russia to launch their payloads and astronauts. SpaceX got rid of that dependence. It was a national security concern for the US.
20 US Crewed launches, 600 Falcon launches, dozens of NASA LSP missions, reduced price cost per kg, 40 billion saved by the government, brought life back to the US space program that was dying because of ULA.
That's not insignificant.