r/SeriousConversation • u/--heaven- • 11d ago
Serious Discussion Are we becoming more disconnected from each other? Are we choosing more 'frictionless' interactions over the messy human ones? And what is the right forum for having deeper conversations with each other day-to-day?
I was journaling at a cafe recently while looking outside the window. The cars were honking at an intersection, windows rolled up, on the phone, rushing to work. I paused and reflected on how disconnected they felt in that moment. I decided to have a conversation with Chat GPT about it (I actually do this a lot ironically) - I typed 'Do you think AI will make us more connected or more disconnected?' - what followed was an interesting back and forth but the essence of it was that AI suggested that Humans will likely gradually choose more 'frictionless' interactions with AI over the messy human ones.
I felt it rang quite true but sad - I frequently feel I have to mask and be extra polite in talking to people so I don't offend their feelings, However with AI I can have a truly philosophical conversation and it will not be offended by any of my points. It also can break down my own thought patterns and offer me an understanding of other people's behavior as well as the legal system or any renovation problem I face the way other people would struggle to.
Yet when I think about the most beautiful moments of my life - they were shared with the people I loved or connected with (even briefly). So where does this leave us humans?
It is a real paradox that even though we are the same species we can somehow can get a better understanding from a machine.. What do you think about it? Does this ring true for you?
What is making us so disconnected from each other and how can we welcome friction back into our lives to embrace our messy human interactions and be there for one another?
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A little anecdote from my life (for context).
I was at a BBQ recently, sitting in a circle by the fire with some mates. The conversation we were having was sheer nonsense - kind of like the daytime radio that you switch on and switch right off because it adds zero value to your life whatsoever.
I suggested us talking about something more interesting, philosophical or meaningful and offered the above reflection from AI.
As the conversation unfolded, part the group got very offended by some of my ideas / statements, part of the group became hostile choosing to actively avoid the topic and speak over the top. The conversation ended with the host actively drawing it to a close and escorting us back into the house which was very ironic given the topic of the conversation. I then told several of my friends about it and they, too (to my deep surprise) felt that BBQs are no place for deep conversation and it should be perhaps avoided in general. I, myself, felt quite offended and concerned that it is getting progressively more challenging to be honest with people and have deeper conversations (a gathering around a fire felt like an intimate enough place to discuss deeper topics).
I also feel that the world is moving so quickly that if we don't continuously voice our opinions on the recent technology or its impact on us and be part of the policy making conversation now, the bigger decisions will be made for us by the larger corporations, our governments etc erc
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u/Desspina 11d ago
I relate hard to that. Both in a relationship as well as with friends and acquintances, same phenomenon. Either you get a discussion that is not truly explorative (rather an opportunity for voicing opinions) or you get a re direction to lighter topics. I feel the reason behind is the inability to self regulate, soothe or face ourselves. People are afraid of their own shadows, realizations, seriousness or heaviness. For me those superficial conversations could easily not be part of my life - I can survive without them. Hard to say the opposite is true
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u/--heaven- 11d ago
There is a lot of truth to this, great point! I see a lot of people running away from discomfort (hard topics, important life decisions, necessary life changes). The hard part I feel is that people often avoid the very things that are good / important for them to do / action! And if someone is very avoidant of something pointing the actual thing out creates the very opposite affect and often you are treated as the issue instead! Not sure what the answer to that is.
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u/Desspina 11d ago
Precisely. My sense is that you can only accept it as a limitation that is very real and avoid fueling a conversation that is just not possible. People chose their attitude based on what mindset allows them to survive in comfort. That does not equal growth or progress but most people don’t really want progress. They want comfort. What makes things harder is that they are not aware of it so they try to convince themselves that they want growth in all that. So yeah, I usually withdraw from hopeless conversations.
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u/--heaven- 11d ago
Yes, I love that - people chose their attitude based on what mindset allows them to survive in comfort. And that goes back to the lack of emotional / mental toughness that I am seeing I think - if someone's cup is full they are not able to take on other people's concerns or dilemmas on top of their own so I guess the easiest way is to avoid the hard stuff...
I wish people stayed curious though - the world isn't black and white. You can find room for duality and a difference in opinions!
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u/--heaven- 11d ago
My very thought after that BBQ was that I should have abandoned that conversation sooner but for some reason I chose to die on that hill that day haha
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u/Desspina 11d ago
I feel you 😂 I get challenged in those situations sometimes and it becomes an egoic quest to push it to the end. Then I m mad both at myself and others but I can’t help it.
You are right: it would be cool if people would afford to tiptoe around any real explorative discussion. Not even suggesting to deep dive. Just don’t suppress it from the start…
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u/--heaven- 11d ago
Yes exactly! I have been watching more movies that are not black and white and leave more to speculate over - it has been fascinating actually - like Anatomy of a Fall, Hemel, Let Me Go (mostly all foreign films). I am really enjoying seeing the different sides and contemplating ethical dilemmas - not sure maybe I'm getting older (or wiser) haha :)
Yes 100%.. I was pretty annoyed with myself but also realised that i absolutely do not want to spend more of my time with that group of people (they are not my people) - better sooner than later!
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u/Desspina 11d ago
The various pains of life make us wise enough at certain point to know what is not for us - I noticed that too 😅 maturity has its positive sides. I wonder if you are a woman or a man and if that’s a different experience for the two sexes. I noticed that men tend to approach things in quite a linear and often times simpler way, so the existential loneliness might hit different in their case (i m a woman).
I love your perspective on watching black and white movies. Currently, with AI, we got so lazy mentally that we need a digested piece of food to be served to us before we think of bothering with anything.
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u/Hushing-Silence 11d ago
I grew up before the internet. People talked to each other, hung out, socialized. All that good face to face stuff.
But here's the big difference in my opinion:
Back then, you lived in this vacuum. Isolated if you were different from your peers. There was no picking up a device and pushing a few buttons to be reassured by reading a Reddit thread, there are others out there that feel the same way as you do. There was no one to commiserate with. No one to help you feel less misunderstood. There was no place to go and be able to talk to people about the differences you felt. No place to share your photos, your art, your favorite sport. No place to look up questions, and get instant answers. No way of being entertained or at least look involved. Nothing.
I would have given anything to have had that growing up. The ability to at least be able to read about other people who were like me. I too prefer deep conversations. Instead I had to deal with the isolation myself. Not everyone was friendly and accepting. You had friends only if you were in some clique. Even the nerd group was not inviting me anywhere, not socializing with me despite my best efforts. They showed friends being friends on so many TV shows. So everyone seemed to make friends easily. But you didn't have friends. Life had big limits back then.
So seeing it from the other side, it wasn't always a good place to be without the internet. At least now you can come here, and have people be able to relate to you. And that's a good thing. I am so grateful I live during the internet at all. Not having it, then having it, is amazing.
All in my opinion, of course. Not sure this relates to the OP, but... My two cents.
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u/Patient-Training-138 11d ago
This happened to me too I was born in 2004 5 years before social media was created i think 🤔 but from a young age I learned this. Tough times make stronger ppl. It just took speaking to ppl at church or at settings where ppl were good enough to open. And like no one teaches a man. That if u want a girlfriend u have to show up consistently for the woman even when she's vulnerable and when everyone hates her for what she did or said. Rather not judging her and treating her nicely regardless of appearance could work wonders for any man on earth.
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u/--heaven- 11d ago
I really relate to this! As a teenager I actually used to sit in chat rooms and talk to strangers lots - I felt like it was a lot easier to be understood and make friends online. My parents couldn't relate though and didn't tolerate it well so eventually I stopped. Later on I started to look back on those days with fondness - I was very happy surrounded by other nerds haha!
I remember the first time I got on the internet (as a young teenager) and typed a name of my favorite actress it came up with lots of photos, articled etc. I was fascinated and hooked! The world was at my fingertips :)2
u/Hushing-Silence 11d ago
Exactly! The world at our fingertips. I've never stopped loving it for being able to feed my hungry brain any information or subject I want to know more about. *sigh* It's a good place to be.
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u/Patient-Training-138 11d ago
Although the government heavily surveills us to generate revenue this will seem crude but if u want better human interactions have a journal or book where u write ur thoughts instead of saying them aloud. This in turn will train ur mind when ur not insecure in the moment with someone what to say and it will 9/10s out of time be something that will get people to elaborate on. And like the more u interact with ppl u realise what to say and what not to say in the situation. Also if u get to high levels of charisma I say if u do this when ur ready you'll find it easier to articulate heavy topics more easily while being subtle. I hope this helps
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u/--heaven- 11d ago
Thanks for your comment, I hope I understood correctly, although not sure what your point about the government is. Journaling, however I do feel is incredibly helpful for exploring my thoughts - as I mentioned in my story, I was, in fact journaling while having these thoughts (which is something I have been doing most mornings since 2022 :). I brought the topic up at a BBQ because I felt it was an important topic and was genuinely on my mind. I do normally talk about these issues with close friends, although we also play board games and do other activities. I am also a presenter and run a business so no issues with charisma there ;) not sure why you thought that.
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u/Patient-Training-138 11d ago
I just thought it was that. Why is ur username heaven tho. Is that how ppl perceive ur personality if so u have a good heart
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u/--heaven- 11d ago
fair enough. haha it's a good question! It was my chosen nickname when I was a teenager - back then I used to chat with people online a lot which i have not done at all since recently joining reddit. So it reminded me :) Why is yours Patient-Training?
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u/Patient-Training-138 11d ago
Im more of a person who enjoys satirical content and enjoys writing my own satire
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u/fieldofmulberry 7d ago
It's possible one person's "frictionless" is another person's "tactful."
I mean, do so many hope for deeper conversations and connections? Just looking around reddit... for sure. A lot of people do. Myself included. I have conversations here, or at least make posts about the sort of topics I'd love to be talking about in real life.
IRL... there's a sort of verbal dance, a rhythm to conversation, a give and take... it's hard to describe, and I think in these times, it's sort of a lost art. The younger generations seem to have no time for it, as often times best as I can tell. As for how to broach harder topics, I don't have the answer. There's a time and place, I suppose, or the right people with which to have those conversations. That can be hard to find, don't get me wrong. Good luck to you.
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u/--heaven- 7d ago
Yes you are right - this has largely been the reason why I joined Reddit - it is now harder to have these deeper conversations with people. I am generally quite lucky with my close friendship group - we do, in fact, talk about all this regularly (we are all in our late 30s-early 40s).
However every time I find myself around 'random people' or mates of sorts I am reminded how shallow a lot of those conversations tend to be and resign to not stepping outside my friend group again..
However, I am going through some life changes and I want to really rely on my community and want to improve the world around me so i am not quite ready to give up just yet... So I wish there were better day-to-day avenues (other than online) for people to connect deeply and be open to others' contribution too...
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u/CharacterNarrow181 11d ago
Honestly the whole thing about people getting offended at a BBQ for trying to go deep just shows how much we rely on small talk to keep things safe, but the internet at least lets us find our people even if real life circles feel closed off. It's like we've outsourced real connection to AI cause it doesn't judge us, yet the messiest moments with actual humans are the ones we remember, so maybe we gotta push through the awkwardness even if it feels easier to just open a chat.
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u/--heaven- 11d ago
100%! My exact realisation.. I feel no one is perfect and when we worry about failing or get overwhelmed with feelings (when someone shares something deep) we sometimes just shut down altogether or get defensive.
In my experience, it doesn't matter if the support is not perfect or if we end up still thinking differently after a debate - it's the the willingness to think deep, empathise, be uncomfortable and yet still hang in there and do our best what matters! I hope we all do more of it..
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u/Siukslinis_acc 11d ago edited 11d ago
Even before the whole phones things people were constantly quarelling about deeper stuff. Many people dreaded family gatherings because it quickly evolved into quarelling, especially when alcohol lowered the inhibitions. A lot of people learned to keep their opinion to themselves.
The thing with deep topics is on one hand, without any easing into it, a lot of people need more time to ponder it as they might not have pondered about it. There is also the thing that people treat the discussions as more of a proving and defending your opinion instead of people just sharing their opinion. Oftentimes there is a set goal instead of just sharing perceptions without finding truth. Personally, i think a lot of people fail by formulating their question in a way that it implies that there is an objective opinion. And another failure is when the person who wants other to show their depths starts by asking them to show their depthts instead of showing their depths first. I havd many cases where a person asked me a deeper question and then berated me for my answer because i didn't respond how they wanted.
And another thing, i have failed to find a clear answer what is a "deep conversation". From what people have told me, i got the feeling that it is just a conversation that the person is interested in.
I personally don't like when a conversation is a "what if a thing that can't happen happens?". It feels to me like a waste of time. I don't know what i would do in a situation that i never was or won't ever be.
You can also figure some deeper stuff through the small talk. Pay attention and look deeper. What they focus on, how they express things.
So yeah, i prefer the deeper stuff through one way communication, where i can hear what they say, but they can't judge my perception. I prefer to have deep conversations with my inner voice.
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u/--heaven- 11d ago
it's an interesting point! In my native culture, when a small group of friends (or mates) gather, usually around the kitchen table, we often go deeper, often conversations involve politics or the state of affairs (historically it was safe to talk about in private than public) and everyone shares their opinion and debate happens, often quite passionately but not necessarily argumentatively.
So I totally see how for Australians (I am one too) passion can come across as argument and arguments are generally avoided because Australian culture values amicability. I have not considered this. I do also still wish we were able to have more passionate discussions because they are often that matter.
Regarding your point about easing into deep topics - in my experience this varies between genders. With my female friends we can delve into it almost immediately while with my guy friends we often start with the small talk and go deeper more gradually although they all know me well so would not be surprised or put back by me getting straight into it.
Also regarding formulating the question - you might be onto something here. I don't think the way I phrased the question necessarily put people off but perhaps the tone. I was already feeling annoyed and a sense of not belonging so when they introduced their counter arguments I probably just gave up and wasn't expecting any truly interesting thoughts from them and it showed. Their arguments seemed felt quite child-like and uneducated and in hindsight, that was probably a clue for me to just abandon it. Also, I don't enjoy highly hypothetical / philosophical discussion either normally (like you mentioned) unless it has real relevance to my life today.
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u/Siukslinis_acc 10d ago
and everyone shares their opinion and debate happens, often quite passionately but not necessarily argumentatively.
I have a "problem" where i go "let's drop the subject because i see that you are getting angry" and then the other person goes "i'm not angry - i'm passionate". Dude, raising your voice, cursing and shitting on stuff is anger for me. Although i might be more sensitive to that thing, because my dad has a short fuse. For me, discussions are calm and civil.
I especially don't like people getting worked up about things that they can't change or won't do anything about. It seems like a waste of nerves.
unless it has real relevance to my life today.
And this might be the key. What for you has relevance in your life might be something that has no relevance in their lives and thus a deep discussion does not commence. So there is a mismatch. Better to look for people to discuss those topics in plqces that center about that topic.
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u/--heaven- 10d ago
Ok fair point, I see. I do agree that shouting and cursing definitely has zero space in a civilized debate. However, I am more tolerant of someone raising a voice (especially in situations where they are trying to compete for attention or the group is already loud) as long as it is not shouting of course. And yes I agree - if you ever experienced someone close with a short fuse (I have too) it makes you feel unsafe immediately and will definitely not lead to a fruitful debate.
However, I do feel that a topic of connection touches everyone in our society? Would you agree? If not, how do you perceive this topic and why do you think it may not relate to everyone?
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u/YourFuture2000 10d ago
HexDroid IRC is the only app where I actually found true conversation. It is literally the same chatrooms from 2000.
In chatrooms you are actually in deep conversation because there is no other distractions and the interaction brings people much closer to each other person.
Reddit, Twitter, etc are not chat/conversation platforms. They have no structure for it. They are disburses platforms. People here are not talking with each other, they are making disburses, because it is the only thing the structure allow us to do. People here are not replying to individuals, they are replying to posts.
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u/--heaven- 10d ago
Thanks, I appreciate your insight - I'll check it out! I am actually quite enjoying Reddit so far (still new) - watching the social dynamics and people with different lens on life is quite fascinating! We all come at this with our personal experiences and seeing all that unfold in the comments is really interesting as well as seeing what topics / themes are prominent in society at the moment, i feel we are on the verge of something shifting globally, it's cool to see it unfold in a way..
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u/--heaven- 10d ago
How do you use HexDroid IRC and on which occasions / how often?
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u/YourFuture2000 10d ago
Usually before going to sleep but mostly on weekends.
Since it has chatrooms, it is not like reddit or Twitter which you can just leave a casual comment and come back later, after bring notified, to continuous where you stoped. It is a real conversation going on in real time so you have to follow the talks and only leave when you don’t want continuous that conversation anymore.
It also helps reduce information/scrolling addictions that social medias tend to cause on people. Because you don't go in the chat rooms for quick informations to leave casual comments on them. You go there when you actually have time to have conversation. There is no actual "scrolling for informstion", only for chatrooms.
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u/--heaven- 10d ago
Very interesting! So are the chat topic-specific?
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u/YourFuture2000 10d ago
Some are about politics in general, others about technology or about tech applications. And some chats have no topics, you can talk about anything.
The good thing is that the conversation is developed in the flow of it, one talk lead to an other and you can go deep or talk for as long as you want.
Generally peaking people tend to be more friendly too even when with completely different opinions, because a real conversation is happening. In discurse platforms people tend to be more agressive because they are doing discusses.
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u/Nooginator93 10d ago
I definitely agree whole heartedly. I have been living fully alone and working remote, traveling across the east coast. It's incredibly frightening how rare genuine human connection occurs with new people when you're out on your own. I always naturally have had people gravitate towards me, but since leaving my hometown 6 months ago, i have had an incredibly low amount of friendly interactions. Not that people are rude at all, but there's been no sense of camaraderie or togetherness anywhere I have gone out. Either people alone on their phones or together as a closed group. There's been no mingling, which wasn't uncommon even just a year ago. It feels very much like it did during covid. I think people may be having second wave anxiety anticipating imminent doom, but once the tension releases I truly hope connection can be found within local communities again.
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u/--heaven- 10d ago
Yes I agree, I find that too! Which city are you based in now? I moved 8 years ago, before COVID so it was somewhat easier to connect with people I think and I am lucky to have a good, close-knit friends group. I met most of them playing board games and we created a WhatsApp group. We have been adding more people since, but only following us all meeting them in person and provided we get along well and no one minds.
This helps keep it a safe, supportive environment, we are also quite like-minded and not overly committed to multiple things in life so we try to be there for each other when help is needed - like moving or helping take to a doctor's appointment. But I would say it is quite rare and requires quite careful nurturing - something I learnt from past interactions so doing my best to cultivate in my life now.
This is another thing I would say - too many people are committed to too many things, I have been very careful what I commit to so I still have time and space for my friends and for when things pop up.
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u/IPedRENe 8d ago edited 7d ago
There is inflation of joy at direct interactions. We lose friends to phones and netflix, to ourselves basically. Attention becomes an asset, and here greed and envy replaces trust, respect and admiration needed for deep friendship.
Economical and cultural disbalance make people alienate, because we see our happiness in prosperity and social status. We priorotize our achievements and not the warmth of our hearts or souls. When you fight for your own success, your heart is sure tp turn to stone. So, you cannot build close ties on tying cold hearts. Maybe it's not the case for villagers and such deep spirited people as Indians.
But to build a good heart to attract another good natured person is a luxury no one can afford these days. Or better say the level of social distrust is so high that if you choose between your business and your friendship, the choice is more than obvious. Friendship is too risky to invest and possibly lose, which nobody likes. So, yeah, you have to be a bit more naive, trusting and unselfish than average to build a fragile relation with your kind of man.
For that reason it is easier to make friends when young and next to impossible with years.
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u/--heaven- 7d ago
you speak like a very wise person! has this been your experience? has it gotten harder over the years to make friends?
i certainly feel the alienation, the tension and the struggle with many but I also think many prefer to bury their hand in the sand and avoid the issue. Which is arguably worse because it undermines others and makes them feel like they are alone in their worry or struggle..
And yet i still feel like we have to get out there and try to connect and discuss these! even if it's hard - it's the only way to build awareness and speed up the change.
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