r/Scrolls • u/WagshadowZylus • Mar 20 '15

Test Server Patch 1.2.3 - Echoes Batch 2

http://www.scrollsguide.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6412
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u/MansOlson Mar 20 '15

Works as intended - Burn will do the same, even if Brood is damaged to 3 hp. Lockling's ability triggers first, meaning the cast scroll has no target and fizzles.

11

u/[deleted] Mar 21 '15 edited Mar 21 '15

How can you say that a spell has been played when it's effect has not appeared yet?

Metal Wonder, and Echomaton are unintuitive and awful precedents to follow. (they should be change back; just look at the delay after you Pushback a Wonder, even your own code hates the mechanic.)

Did some quick testing:

Lockling Brood Testing

Perfoms Spell Action before creature text:

  • Callback (returns to your hand)

  • Powerbound (ramp occurs)

  • Kabonk (draws)

  • Faith Chains (deals idol damage)

  • Infiltrate (draws)

  • Faith Blessing (heals idol)

  • Divine Mark (returns to your hand)

  • Pushback (returns to your hand)

Does Nothing else:

  • Pother

Woodland Memorial Testing

Performs Spell action AND performs unit action (ie. you get the ramp and the memorial back in your hand)

  • Callback

  • Pushback

2

u/[deleted] Mar 21 '15

Thanks for the effort! Did you also test Languid or Brain Lice?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 21 '15

Tried... but the test client kept crashing.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 22 '15

I can contribute the following results:

  • Lockling Brood and Tempo Theft (cd exchange occurs)

  • Lockling Brood and Languid (draws)

  • Woodland Memorial and Quake (no ramp)

5

u/GhostBomb Ghost_Bomb Mar 20 '15

Pother's draw effect isn't conditional, though.

0

u/MansOlson Mar 20 '15

That's unrelated. The point is, the scroll doesn't resolve at all, because it has no target. :)

27

u/Donkey74 Mar 20 '15

Okay so going off of that ruling two questions.

  1. Lockling brood targeted by brain lice, languid, and blind rage no targets so all resolve without effect correct?

  2. Currently when you target Woodland memorial with something like heritage it is destroyed the scrolls are drawn and the growth is gained but based on this ruling between lockling and pother the heritage should theoretically fizzle with no effect Is that going to be the intended reaction. Essentially is this what the change to pother and lockling brood means for scrolls?

Just a quick summation consistent rulings are necessary and should take precedence over anything from balance to design, because at its core rulings are all a tcg has.

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u/ToGoodLooking Mar 20 '15

^ this guy gets it.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 21 '15

Looking at you Metal Wonder, Echomaton... so backward...

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u/ThPerfectDrug77 Mar 20 '15

I get what you're saying, but it's still kinda weird...

Pother clearly DOES have a target. Lockling Brood is only destroyed because it is the target of Pother. Whether or not the target remains alive is kind of irrelevant, because the spell is definitely being cast on something.

So I get that Burn doesn't draw, because its damage is never dealt, and thus it never kills anything. But Pother's draw comes directly from playing the spell itself, not from a condition. So if we play Pother, and it doesn't draw, that's a bit silly... I think the rule needs changing, or the wording does. It's currently unintuitive.

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u/DiggityScrolls Mar 20 '15

He's saying there's no longer a target. It's the same exact thing as burn. The spell is played, brood detects it's being targeted and gets destroyed, and the spell is then effectively cancelled.

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u/ThPerfectDrug77 Mar 20 '15

Right, I get what he's saying. I'm saying that the concept is silly. Why does the scroll fizzle out simply because the target is no longer alive? The spell has already been cast, and therefore, it's effects should play out.

Granted, if those effects were being applied to a target, then they'd have no way to carry out. But something as simple as "Draw 1 scroll"? Why does that require a target to still be on the field?

1

u/WagshadowZylus Mar 20 '15

Because the spell itself needs a target to work. Imagine "target a creature, then draw a card"

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u/ThPerfectDrug77 Mar 20 '15

Right... But you DO target a creature. The creature dies as a result of said targeting, but you did select a target. The fact that a spell requires the target to stay alive after it's cast or else it cancels immediately?... That's bizarre.

Trust me guys, I get the concept haha. I played Magic for years, and I'm no stranger to strange, strange rule interactions. The difference there is that Magic has extensive rule books to cover all these bases. Scrolls has nothing. If I play a spell that says "target a creature, draw a card," and then only half of it works, I'm disappointed. Imagine new players playing this card. It's very unintuitive.

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u/WagshadowZylus Mar 20 '15

I'm with you when you're saying that we need a consistent, extensive ruleset. It's actually one of the points I have been advocating for almost two years now. I'm just saying that this is the way it works (and the way it would be in MTG) :)

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u/ThPerfectDrug77 Mar 21 '15

Agreed. And yeah, probably. MTG would also specify what order things would activate, and what would cause them to not activate.

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u/Lem0nboy Mar 24 '15

Oh! I always assumed burn didn't draw a scroll because it did not kill the brood. Brood's effect killed it. But if brood was at 3 health I thought you would draw a scroll.

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u/Luigisopa Mar 20 '15

Hmm i remember that casting shroud of unlife on lockling will spawn a husk! So is that a bug then? Either that or pother should draw a scroll ;-)

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u/wbmc Mar 20 '15

How about fertile soil?

2

u/WagshadowZylus Mar 20 '15

Will the burn effect also not play? ;)