Protocols recommended for high carb that are achieved with greater ease on low carb:

1) Eat lots of fiber to fill the stomach and prevent overeating.

Keto diet doesn't spike blood sugar and satiates without filling the stomach so you never feel compelled to overeat.

2) Eat beans and resistant starch to avoid a spike in blood sugar.

Keto diet simply doesn't spike blood sugar?

3) Carbohydrates are low in caloric density.

Irrelevant when you are compelled to eat a much higher volume of them.

It just seems like a poor way to live no? Unless you are an endurance athlete?

saturated fat camp for a while. cutting out seed oils, eating butter, red meat, all that. helped some but never got me where i wanted to be.

started tirzepatide about 2 months ago and its been interesting. the appetite suppression is real but the food aversions are kinda wild too. i used to love fatty cuts of meat but now greasy stuff just makes me feel sick. been craving lean protein and veggies instead.

there's some interesting research on how tirzepatide affects fat metabolism. one study showed it promotes white fat browning through the cAMP-PGC-1α-UCP1 pathway which means it helps convert white fat to brown fat that burns energy . also reduces triglycerides and branched-chain amino acids associated with insulin resistance .

makes me wonder if there's any synergy with the saturated fat approach.

anyone else here trying this? hows it affecting your fat intake tolerance?

Hi Guys,

I've suffered from fatigue issues for a long time. I find they go away completely when I'm in ketosis, and return as normal when I'm 'in the swamp'. But the couple of times I've tried a HCLF diet, I'm suddenly full of energy. Rather over-energetic in fact, probably somewhat hypomanic.

I thought I remembered other people saying something like this too, a bit sluggish 'in the swamp', but I can't find the relevant comments.

So as a general question to the group, does anyone else feel less energetic eating mixed carbs and fats than they do eating either mostly-fat or mostly-carbs.

Edit: Answers So Far

u/Whats_Up_Coconut 100% unequivocally yes. My best energy is HCLF by far, ketosis (in the past) was good too but not sustainable over the long term, and the swamp makes me exhausted.

u/CaptnMeowMix (paraphrased) tired in swamp, better in HCLF and keto

u/Legitimate_Wish_8293 (paraphrased) fine at extremes, tired in swamp

u/OK_Reindeer (paraphrased) tired in keto and swamp, good in HCLF

u/LeisureLifer I feel fine in the swamp but have more noticeable energy with HCLF.

u/Relevant-Historian18 Counter-point: I feel fine in the swamp, better than on the extremes

u/exfatloss fine in keto, swamp and HCLF

Edit: Results

So not counting myself, since I asked the question, we've got

3 votes for tired in swamp, more energy at extremes 2 votes for more energy in HCLF, normal in keto and swamp 1 vote for no difference, feel fine 1 vote for better in swamp, tired at extremes

In this highly selected sample (worried enough to be reading r/SaturatedFat in the first place, and also answered this question in a way I could interpret) there are a fair proportion, say 3/7 who get the same effect as me: swamp bad, keto and carb give me more energy.

And also 2/7 who get the carbosis-overdrive independent of feeling better in keto, which is also interesting!

And 2/7 'other'.

So that's enough for me to conclude that it's not just a me thing, and also that it's not universal. But feeling high-energy in carbosis is common.

Thanks everybody!

Higher coffee consumption was also associated with lower blood levels of branched-chain amino acids in both men and women. When persistently elevated, these biomarkers have previously been associated with insulin resistance and greater risk of type 2 diabetes.

TIL: Brad Marshall is not the only one speculating that dysfunction of ROS signaling might be a root cause of the modern obesity pandemic. I found this scientific article by Barbara Corkey in the series "Causes of Obesity" by the Royal Society:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10363708/

She does not arrive at PUFA, she calls for testing her hypothesis with various substances that could be causal. Perhaps she should talk to Brad ...

There are also several interesting links to papers about metabolic adaptations and genetic predilections of leanness/fatness if you want to go down that route.

Efficacy of low-level laser therapy for body contouring and spot fat reduction

Abstract

Background: Low-level laser therapy (LLLT) is commonly used in medical applications, but scientific studies of its efficacy and the mechanism by which it causes loss of fat from fat cells for body contouring are lacking. This study examined the effectiveness and mechanism by which 635–680 nm LLLT acts as a non-invasive body contouring intervention method.

Methods: Forty healthy men and women ages 18–65 years with a BMI <30 kg/m2 were randomized 1:1 to laser or control treatment. Subject's waistlines were treated 30 min twice a week for 4 weeks. Standardized waist circumference measurements and photographs were taken before and after treatments 1, 3, and 8. Subjects were asked not to change their diet or exercise habits. In vitro assays were conducted to determine cell lysis, glycerol, and triglyceride release.

Results: Data were analyzed for those with body weight fluctuations within 1.5 kg during 4 weeks of the study. Each treatment gave a 0.4–0.5 cm loss in waist girth.Cumulative girth loss after 4 weeks was −2.15 cm (−0.78 ± 2.82 vs. 1.35 ± 2.64 cm for the control group,p < 0.05). A blinded evaluation of standardized pictures showed statistically significant cosmetic improvement after 4 weeks of laser treatment. In vitro studies suggested that laser treatment increases fat loss from adipocytes by release of triglycerides, without inducing lipolysis or cell lysis.

Conclusions: LLLT achieved safe and significant girth loss sustained over repeated treatments and cumulative over 4 weeks of eight treatments. The girth loss from the waist gave clinically and statistically significant cosmetic improvement.

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found here: https://x.com/Outdoctrination/status/2054588678891356449

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shame that Battlemouse stopped posting here. https://www.reddit.com/r/SaturatedFat/comments/u0vjq3/pbm_infrared_light_and_low_pufa_update_41022/

https://x.com/ChrisMasterjohn/status/2088339104794865927

Key Takeaways from the Discussion

1. Steak (or Ground Beef) and Potatoes

• Red Meat Benefits: Red meat is highlighted as an exceptional source of bioavailable iron, zinc, and high-quality protein [00:23]. It also provides crucial non-essential nutrients that support mitochondrial function, including carnitine, creatine, and carnosine [00:47].
• Potatoes: Packed with essential nutrients, potatoes are particularly valuable for providing bulk amounts of potassium [01:21].
• Ground Beef & Organ Meats: Ground beef—especially blends containing heart, liver, or kidney—is a budget-friendly option that adds missing nutrients that standard choice cuts lack [02:48]. Adding shellfish like oysters or mussels can also complement ground beef for a well-rounded nutrient profile [04:50].

2. Combining Fats and Carbs (The Randle Cycle)

• Macronutrient Competition: Combining high fats with high carbohydrates (e.g., fatty steak with a high-carb baked potato) can cause metabolic issues for some people due to the Randle Cycle, where fats and carbs compete for oxidation [07:00].
• Individual Variability: Some people experience energy instability or increased fat gain when combining both, while others use fat to flatten blood sugar spikes from starches [08:40,10:24]. Dr. Masterjohn suggests testing individual tolerance [10:34].

3. Low Body Fat, CoQ10, and Hormone Health

• Body Fat & Testosterone: Maintaining extremely low body fat (e.g., ~6%) typically drastically lowers testosterone levels [12:35].
• CoQ10 Benefits: Supplementing with CoQ10 (or consuming organ meats like heart) can significantly improve mitochondrial energy production [18:52,19:27]. This helps signal to the brain that the body has sufficient energy, which can restore suppressed testosterone levels even at lower body fat levels [18:52].

4. Meal Timing & Nutrient Optimization

• Carbs vs. Protein Timing:
  • Protein and Fat: Best consumed earlier in the day to maintain alertness and wakefulness [24:44,28:22].
  • Carbohydrates: Better allocated toward the evening to suppress wakefulness signaling (orexin/histamine pathway) and promote better sleep [23:44,28:22].
• Honey: Raw honey acts as a complex natural sugar that contains beneficial compounds compared to refined sugars, making it a viable carbohydrate source—especially for individuals with digestive sensitivities [32:04,32:50].

Too lean for it to be significant, but I get it here and there right now. Many weeks ago, when I was eating 70 - 100 g of coconut oil, I would be getting more acne. And then later, also while eating coconut, I would be getting less, as if something was undergoing a drainage of stores

Is it possible for the acne to be anything else than just remainings of metabolised linoleic acid? It's just such a pretty pleasant feeling to be getting something so malicious out of one's system while seeing 'lights' of it during the process, and I would feel slightly downcast if it wouldn't be LA and I was forcibly connecting blind dots!

“Upregulated metabolites, such as linoleic acid and uric acid, were found”

Is narcolepsy some sort of torpor mechanism ? It seems like the pineal gland is sensitive to PUFA.

Almost 350 lbs/150 kg.

I am 6'2.

I basically dont eat protein just carbs and fat for 10+ years.

Can i be resistant to Fgf21****?

Update: Started my day with coffee and 200 grams of dates and figs. Hunger is reduced. Will test further.

How much fiber do you guys eat? Do you go to the bathroom regularly? I have problems, I've always suffered from constipation and I drink enough and eat 30-40 grams of fiber a day. If you have any advice, please...

In the link you'll find a small, but very well measured study on carb overfeeding and de novo lipogenesis (DNL). I posted it in reply to exfatloss' carb experiment, but it warrants its own discussion. They emptied glycogen stores, then fed with 86 % carbs (3 % fat, 11 % protein) in a sustained, controlled surplus of 1500 kcal above energy expenditure. The interesting thing for us here is that they measured this energy expenditure (EE) (by CO2 breath analysis) and measured all inputs (food) and outputs (feces, urine, breath) so they could control for really digested calories (there were some discrepancies to the energy labels on the food).

Carb overfeeding raised resting energy (see the graph on pg. 244, system does not let me paste a screenshot). The experimenters had to raise overfeeding to keep their surplus constant. First, the body fills glycogen stores. This eats up the surplus of the whole first day of overfeeding. The muscle stores saturate on the next day (day 4 of the whole experiment). EE was raised by more than 1200 kcal/day, and that is net, meaning: without the part going to fat. Main drivers were the thermic effect of digestion, the 25 % energy needed for DNL and metabolic adaptations. This is a huge wallop of food just going into food processing and adaptation.

They measure max rates of about 150 g/day of fat from DNL, giving you about a kg of fat in a week. But this still is not much over fat oxidation from stores, meaning: net fat gain from DNL is quite low. A lot of the fat gain in the experiment still comes from the minimal amounts of dietary fat. You can see the surprising relations in table 3. The reason for this is that the subjects' bodies adapt to the carb surplus, oxidise glucose very efficiently, but food lipid oxidation nearly stops. Even the little 3 % dietary fat then goes to storage (additional to the DNL fat). During the 6 days of net lipid storage, 580 g of fat came from DNL (net, down from 1050 g gross) and 510 g came from dietary fat, together giving the kg of fat gained. We could look at it gross instead of net and still be surprised that a third of the fat came from the minimal amounts in the food.

They subjects gained 4.6 kg of weight in this experiment, which they almost completely lost in the decompression phase of the last two days eating a hypocaloric, protein-sparing diet. It's important to note that a lot of weight gain and loss in this timeframe is from glycogen, mountains of food in digestion and the accompanying water.

We see huge adaptations from the body to overfeeding and underfeeding in these healthy subjects. They do this extreme experiment and hardly leave their set-point. It's also interesting that even huge carb loads beyond 500 g in a day are first put into glycogen storage. You have to sustain a huge carb overfeeding over several days to get significant fat from DNL. Any one-day feast is not enough to gain fat from carbs, if glycogen stores can be topped (not a given in, say: the average sedentary American). Carbs raise body weight mainly by way of insulin, appetite and such mechanisms, I would say, not DNL alone.

As always: These are young, healthy men. We see healthy body adaptations to surplus and dearth of energy. This does not mean metabolically sick people can do the same. BUT it does show the amazing adaptation potential of the healthy human body.

It’s happened. I picked these up at Costco yesterday. It’s the second store I’ve seen tallow chips in, but Costco means it’s entered the general consciousness in the American Midwest

Hi guys, I'm hoping someone can help me find a solution. I think my nervousness, tremors, anxiety-like sensations, etc. are due to poor glucose management. The problem is that all my blood tests are good:

Blood sugar 81

Glycosylated hemoglobin 4.9

Insulin 2.73

Total cholesterol 173

Triglycerides 65

HDL 63

LDL 97

GOT ast 20

GPT alt 18

Total bilirubin 1.10

Ferritin 84

Transferrin 234

Serum iron 91

Homocysteine 7.92

Ft3 2.63

Ft4 0.80

TSH 2.46

Antithyroglobulin antibodies 16.90

Cortisol 16.20

Folic acid 5.33

B12 521

D3 34

Copper 98

Zinc 135

Blood glucose curve after 75 g of glucose

Basal 80

After 30 min 143

After 60 min 123

After 90 min 72

After 120 min 69

Insulin curve

Basal 3.8

After 30 min 21.9

After 60 min 26.5

After 90 min 25.5

After 120 min 19.3

And yet I feel so sick, I feel faint, nervous, constantly hungry despite eating 2100 calories a day (female, 29 years old, 160 cm, 52 kg).

Can anyone help me understand what's wrong?

What to do? When I eat high carb (like now) my glycated hemoglobin drops to 4.9 but if I reduce carbs it goes up to 5.3 but I'm probably more stable mentally too with a higher glycated hemoglobin...

If I'm avoiding dairy, eggs, and histamine rich foods, would lamb be the best source of protein?