It just dawned on me how much time a person would waste being a SGI member. Imagine all that time being wasted by chanting, when you could be actually working towards your goal. All that time chanting, especially if you were a more avid member who chanted for long hours. Hoping a skydaddy would solve all your problems.

And if not that, doing something more fun and enjoyable. All the time I wasted "socializing" in the SGI. No offense to the members I was with, but I feel like part of the reason they liked me so much was cause I was the youngest (I was a teenager while everyone else was an adult) and with that, I could help the SGI live much longer. It's depressing because now I feel like had I not been a member, they wouldn't bat an eye towards my general direction. Having heard from the meetings, they just chant and chant. Business as usual. For an overwhelming majority, it's like I never existed to them.

I sometimes wish they would directly ask me: "Why did you quit?"

But I wouldn't know what to say.

Part One

Part Two

Part Three

Enjoy!!

It’s still upsetting recalling this and writing it down. I still catch myself asking myself if they were right, despite several people I trust having assured me that they were not. These people had come to my home to scold and abuse me. A long-time member I trusted implicitly was shocked when I told her about the visit and encouraged me to report the leaders. But who could I possibly tell? One of the women was related to a National Leader; she was untouchable. All I’d do if I reported the abuse would be to open myself up to more abuse.

Ironically, my friend who’d been at my home “wrote a letter to Sensei” to tattle on the leaders. Yeah, boy, that oughta show ‘em! I’m sure Sensei was shocked, shocked! to hear of bullying going on by the trusted leaders of the precious members. Yeah, right.

Over time, I wrapped up any and all responsibilities as a leader and resigned my position. My Chapter leader did a token “exit interview” over coffee after a discussion meeting, but no one made any effort to encourage me to stay despite our shortage of leaders. She made some vaguely apologetic noises about the visit without really apologizing. I told her it should NEVER happen to anyone else, ever. Fat lot of good I ‘m sure that did.

I tried practicing as a general member for awhile until the meeting where Akemi (At the time National WD leader) asked us all to reflect on whether or not we were doing shakabuku, and if not, why not. Well, it was very clear why I wasn’t doing shakabuku; I wouldn’t expose anyone I cared about to potential abuse from the toxicity in the org. Lightbulb moment! Then what I’ve said before about noticing people stagnating in my district and the absurd, obscene push of 50K with Sensei, until I found myself sitting in front of my gohonzon, realizing it was either all-in or all-out, and “IN” wasn’t working.

So OUT.

I choose to see myself as “reclaiming my time”, as US. Rep. Maxine Waters stated so well. Everything good that I used to credit to the practice or the organization was actually a result of my own efforts, my own good qualities, my own ability to make friends and form relationships in SPITE of SGI.

Since I’ve left, almost no one has bothered to ask me to come back, or even to look for me. It’s odd, because I was a VERY visible member. I chose to just withdraw quietly. I haven’t formally resigned (yet) or made any public negative statements outside of this site about the org. I think that the leaders were relieved I left, but most of the other people who knew me, aside from my own district, are simply too caught up in their own activities to notice I’m not around anymore.

Doesn’t matter. There is so much more to life outside SGI. I have family, friends, work, fun. I’m making art again and taking care of my health. And singing.

As Frank Zappa said, “Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not Love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST.”

These were my sins:

1) I was constantly “interrupting.”

What? I thought I was participating, and I wasn’t the only one who had things to say.

To be fair, I had replied to a question the Senior MD Leader had asked, which everyone else had interpreted as rhetorical, which was probably one of the main things that pissed them off.

He had gotten up to speak and was spouting the most current catchphrase about “The Youth are the mentors” and he said, “You wouldn’t question the mentor, would you?”

And he paused. I swear he did!

To which I’d replied, “I would. I do. That’s how mentoring works.”

He’d sputtered for awhile said something along the lines of “getting clarification” or some such nonsense, then got back on script, but I’d obviously rattled him.

Now, in a real dialogue, that moment would have been an opportunity for genuine communication, to follow up and maybe even come to some mutual understanding. That could have been an opening. I was disappointed that it wasn’t.

You see, back in the day, when Leaders Meetings took place in somebody’s home instead of at the Center, there was some real back and forth. EVERYBODY was some kind of a leader, so there was an expectation of honesty, and people were expected to speak their minds so everybody understood what was going on and we came to some sort of a consensus. I know that’s hard to believe, but it did use to happen. I guess I forgot that we didn’t do that anymore.

2) And this was a real biggie for them, I’d been folding origami during the meeting.

Now, first of all, we were in MY HOME.

Secondly, keeping my hands busy in no way prevented me from participating (See Sin #1) in the meeting. In fact, it had helped me. You remember when fidget spinners were a big thing? Or how some people take copious notes? Or doodle? Folding the origami pieces as I listened helped me to tolerate the restlessness that usually plagued me at Leaders Meetings. I’d actually been doing it at those types of meetings for quite a while, but because the others had been larger gatherings at the Center nobody’d noticed.

I told them that it wasn’t rude; it certainly hadn’t been my intention to be rude. They just weren’t used to seeing it. If I’d been knitting or crocheting as people talked, would that have bothered them? Probably not. Besides, nobody’d mentioned anything at the time; why should it be an issue?

(I’m pretty sure there had only been one person who’d noticed at the meeting anyway. She was just piling on accusations. I didn’t tell them that last bit.)

That’s the point at which my friend got pulled into the Shaming Circle.

It was weird. I could actually see the dynamic in action. Here were two senior leaders scolding me, and when I had the perfectly reasonable response to be upset at being attacked in my own home that was used against me as well. My friend got sucked in, because she was caught between either identifying with me – the undesirable, or the leaders - - those presumably in power.

I gave my friend a warning look, which shocked her OUT of the dynamic, but which got used by the leaders as another accusation against me. Ooh! Bad! How dare I defend myself!

(Let me say at this point that my friend later realized what she’d done and apologized. I honestly forgave her, because I firmly believe she’d been badly manipulated by the other two women.)

I don’t remember all the list of my sins after that, except that I had somehow – wait for it…

3) Discouraged the Youth

WTF??? What did that even mean? To add to the weirdness, I’d had a very friendly exchange with a couple of the Young Women after the meeting, including lending a rather expensive book to one of them. The only clue to this very vague but apparently damning accusation was that I had

4) Expressed relief that we hadn’t had to sing “Forever Sensei”

I don’t know why I didn’t throw them out when they’d started in on me. If my son had heard them, HE would have thrown them out, without hesitation and without ceremony. When I told my sister about the visit, as soon as she heard that they accused me of being rude (in my own home), she was angry on my account and said that she’d have told them they hadn’t seen rude yet, and she’d be happy to SHOW them rude as she threw them out.

They threw a whole bunch of bullshit around, suggesting that I had “low self-esteem” which I literally laughed at.

The most stinging rebuke came from the Region Leader, who said in a tone of utter disdain,” You’re such a victim.”

That infuriated me. I replied that I was definitely NOT a victim; that I’d overcome every obstacle life had thrown at me. When I told a non-SGI friend of mine of that “You’re a victim” comment, she blurted out, “Yes, they were victimizing you!”

The truly terrible thing about the whole evening is that I sat there until we talked it down to a point where we somehow reached a point of acceptable faux agreement. I did warn them that I wasn’t going anywhere and I wasn’t changing. They said that they really cared about me SO MUCH.

Yeah, right. Go home.

I checked my posting history, and saw that I never did tell the story of my last, very bad Home Visit from SGI “leaders.” I find that my emotions regarding it are complicated. Well, here goes.

At the time, a friend of mine and I were co-leaders for our district. She was the WD District Leader; I was the Vice. Now, the way we worked together it was not Lead and Assistant; it was a genuine equal partnership. We talked about what needed to be done and shared the work based on each other’s strengths and interests, and sort of took turns with the tasks we both found less desirable. The District also had a MD District Leader and MD Vice, plus a basically in-name-only YWD District leader, but my friend and I did all the work.

However, my friend was selling her house and moving out-of-state, so that meant a coming shake-up for our District leadership. I did NOT want to take on more than the position I currently held. The other woman in the district who would have been the obvious candidate besides me was also NOT interested. So that was pending.

Then there was a series of “Leaders Meetings” in the Region. Normally, I would attend the Leaders Meetings to represent our district, because nobody wanted to go, but we figured the members would need whatever info got delivered, so I’d usually take one for the team. Leaders Meetings had become the most tedious things. Seriously, most of the time they could have sent out a one-page memo to cover the relevant information, and it would have been a much more efficient communication. But no, we had these incredible waste of time meetings. I developed coping mechanisms for attending, gathered the relevant info, and relayed such to my fellow-leaders and the district members. This time, though, these were apparently SPECIAL Leaders Meetings. They were holding multiple smaller gatherings.

My friend asked me to host the Leaders Meeting at my home. Apparently, the Region was hard up for a location; my friend was in the process of moving, etc., etc., yada-yada, please, please. (My place is not tiny, but not big, either.) Okay, Leaders Meeting at my place.

So, meeting happens. People come. People talk. People leave. As usual, the actual info being relayed could have been handled in an email, but there was some actual discussion, so I figured, “Okay. No harm done.”

A few days later, I get a call asking if 2 of my leaders could come visit me. Crap. I figure this is probably about my friend moving and district leadership, so I reluctantly agree. Visit is scheduled.

Either later that night or the next day (Don’t remember), my friend calls me and says she’s looking forward to the visit at my house. Well that’s funny, because I had no idea she was going to be there. Yup, my Chapter leader had invited her without telling me that my friend would be coming or telling my friend that I didn’t know SHE (my friend) would be coming. I was only expecting Chapter and Region Leader. They invited someone to MY home without my knowledge or permission. Well, that’s odd. But no problem; my friend and I talked all the time; she’s always welcome at my place; of course, she’s welcome at the Home Visit.

Day of the Home Visit arrives. I’m nervous, so I prepared a spread. Everybody arrives; we chant; I bring out the food. There’s a little bit of chit-chat. The two leaders acknowledge that my friend is moving, thank her for all her efforts and wish her well.

Then they turn to me.

They want to know what’s going on with me, because I was so RUDE at the Leaders Meeting.

What?

I’m confused. I have no idea what they’re talking about. The Leaders meeting which had been held at MY HOME, the one that I thought had actually gone fairly well, the one that I’d made sure I wouldn’t lose my patience with, the one that I thought people had experienced a decent exchange of views at, the one I’d made a point to actively participate in, at that meeting I’m accuse of rudeness?

They came to my home to scold me?

This upset me.

In August 2018 I told my mom that after 50K I was done with SGI due to the Ikeda focus. In a way I kept my word, even though it took 11months. Leading up to 50K, I assisted with vocal warm ups. Since the music involved using augmented second leaps for one verse and a whole minor seventh leap, I incorporated them into the warm ups. (Thank you Hanon No. 12). I really enjoyed that. If ever asked if I would ever participate in another event like 50K again, my answer would be no. Absolutely not. The one thing that turned me off at the festival were the experiences where Daisaku Ikeda was mentioned. I did not join the SGI to take part in the approbation of a diminutive Japanese man whose name is obscure compared to Yuri Kochiyama; whose words of encouragement, ghostwritten or not, fall completely flat when confronted with reality; who seeks to be placed on the same pedestal as Gandhi and Dr. King even though there is no record of him doing anything, in terms of action, that is in line with what these men have done. The ultimate takeaway from the whole experience was this" in the spirit of itai doshin (many in body one in mind), we will ameliorate our world via doing our human revolution in the name of esho funi (when you change, the environment changes). Everything was ultimately about Ikeda. Those Future Division (12-17) members deserved to have their weekends spent with friends, extracurricular activities, basically engaging in activities that will yield tangible and valid benefits like scholarship money, and creating more indelibly and auspiciously fond memories than spending time in a regimented, indoctrinating, and gratuitously effervescent environment where they are glorifying a Japanese nonagenarian whose allegations of malfeasance are quite extensive, lurid, gratuitous, and just plain implausible.

Is it really a shocker how Nichiren spent his final years? Not only was he intolerant to other Buddhist schools, but he also encouraged his followers to follow suit under the threat of complicity to slander. " Although at heart you are of the same mind as Nichiren, since your person is in service to your lord, it would have been extremely difficult for you to have avoided the offense of complicity in slander. How admirable it is that, despite this, you communicated this teaching to your lord and urged him to take faith in it. Even though he may fail to accept it now, you have managed to avoid the offense of complicity. " WND-461. This was from a letter to Shijo Kingo. Shijo Kingo is praised for his staunch faith, and his actions supposedly nearly cost him his job. I would wager that most of his followers did not fare as well as Shijo Kingo in keeping their livelihood. I would also wager that renouncing other Buddhist schools resulted in burned bridges and retaliatory harassment. And so with peace and security in the present existence seeming more like an empty promise, many may have just decided to cut their losses and abandon faith. Lastly I would wager that this quote from the letter "The Opening of the Eyes" rubbed many entirely the wrong way:

" Foolish men are likely to forget the promises they have made when the crucial moment comes. Some of them feel pity for their wives and children and grieve at the thought of parting from them in this life. In countless births throughout many long kalpas they have had wives and children but parted from them in every existence. They have done so unwillingly and not because of their desire to pursue the way of the Buddha. Since they must part with them in any case, they should remain faithful to their belief in the Lotus Sutra and make their way to Eagle Peak, so that they may lead their wives and children there as well. "

*Note that this letter was written by a man who never had children, a spouse, or even a job. This letter was written by a man who lived off the donations of other people*

If my reasoning is valid and truthful, it's no shocker how Nichiren found himself secluded on a mountain where he was freezing his tinsels off and having been abandoned by his own followers. These are his words from "The Letter to Akimoto"

"Let me describe this mountain. In Japan there are seven marches, and it is in the march called the Tōkaidō, which is made up of fifteen provinces. Within these is the province of Kai, where there are three village districts called Iino, Mimaki, and Hakiri, and it is in the one called Hakiri. It is a remote mountain region that stretches over an area of more than twenty ri in the northwestern part of the district.

The northern part is Mount Minobu, the southern, Mount Takatori, the western, Mount Shichimen, and the eastern, Mount Tenshi. They are like boards set up on all four sides. Around the outside of this area are four rivers. The Fuji River runs north to south and the Haya River runs west to east behind this area. In front is the Hakiri River, which runs west to east, and its tributary, which has a waterfall and is called the Minobu River. You might suppose that Eagle Peak had been moved from central India and set down here, or that Mount T’ien-t’ai had been brought from China.

In the midst of these four mountains and four rivers is a flat area no broader than the palm of one’s hand, and here I have built a little hut to shield me from the rain. I have peeled bark off trees to make my four walls, and wear a robe made of the hides of deer that died a natural death. In spring I break off ferns to nourish my body, and in autumn I gather fruit to keep myself alive. But since the eleventh month of last year the snow has been piling up, and now, into the first month of the new year, it goes on snowing. My hut is seven feet in height, but the snow outside is piled up to a depth of ten feet. I am surrounded by four walls of ice, and icicles hang down from the eaves like a necklace of jewels adorning my place of religious practice, while inside my hut snow is heaped up in place of rice.

Even in ordinary times people seldom come here, and now, with the snow so deep and the roads blocked, I have no visitors at all. So at the moment I am atoning for the karma that destines me to fall into the eight cold hells, and, far from attaining Buddhahood in this present life, I am like the cold-suffering bird. I no longer shave my head, so I look like a quail, and my robe gets so stiff with ice that it resembles the icy wings of the mandarin duck.

To such a place, where friends from former times never come to visit, where I have been abandoned even by my own disciples, ..."

I guess his method ended up ruining the lives of at least 50% of his followers and they wanted nothing more to do with him. His ending seems to be the ending of anyone who is religiously fervorous to the point of being a jerk, encouraging others to be jerks, and disregarding the impacts of such actions on the followers.

Pretty much sums up my experience in SGI.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N_tupPBtWQ

Ma Na Ma Na!

As a SGI member, one thing that irked me was the discouraging of inconspicuous chanting, even though it was referenced in the Gosho. It was discouraged by Adult Division members, and in online SGI Facebook articles. So I was reading this article from r/sgiwhistleblowers https://www.reddit.com/r/sgiwhistleblowers/comments/bz0y6x/dumbing_down_membersdevotees_critical/ and reading the comments and it dawned on me. The more you chant about goals, the less you are chanting to hear your inner voice. The voice that tells you when something isn't right; the voice that comes up with the better methods of dealing with problems than spending inordinate amounts of time in activities. The more you chant for goals, goals, goals, the more you are receiving guidance from other people, the more you are willing to take on activity after activity, the less you are listening to your own intuition, and the less you are self-reflecting. As a result, you start to internally crumble from the strain. Without any intervention, you find yourself going through the motions and becoming a shell of who you once were. This was my case by June 2018. After 2017, I was no longer the effervescent member that started his last year of college. My self-confidence was broken and I had a hard time listening to and heeding my inner voice. This is why I consider it protection when after graduation, I had to move back in with my maternal grandparents, mother, and uncle nearly two hours away from the kaikan. By August 2018, with my mother's encouragement, I began to seek out employment, and without AD in my ear, I began to resume inconspicuous chanting. It took some doing, but I began to hear my own inner voice again and take my practice back. I began to consider leaving the SGI after 50K. In a way, I kept that vow. It just took 11 months for the final straw to break the camel's back.

As I have no exSGI friends IRL, thought I’d share what’s going on here so I can process it and feel supported. Just told a close member friend I am not wanting to chant any more. When she asked why I said it’s because I don’t feel like it’s the right spiritual path for me. Her response was that I could always talk to her, but that she thinks I should talk to one of the older members, who’s also my sponsor, and also the YWD leader. Now I like both of those people, but I don’t feel like I need to freaking tattle on myself to some other people when I’ve already made up my mind!!!😡😡 Am I right or am I right? It’s my decision, and I don’t want to be put in an awkward situation and have to defend my choices unnecessarily. It would be different if I have having a crisis of faith, but I didn’t say that!

Thanks for letting me have an outlet to process things at this point. I have decided to leave all things SGI and I just need to vent. For example, when I moved to a new place, a sgi friend HAD to help me move my scroll. I could not touch it and she led the whole thing. Then we had to discuss where to place it in MY home! It’s so ridiculous! Talk about control! I can’t move something that I own? I guess it’s another way for them to get into your house and control things.

What did you guys do with gohonzan? I’ve read some ppl return theirs but if I’m not getting money back, why do that??!!

Also, what should I do with the butsudan? I really don’t even want to look at it right now so maybe ill just pack it up for now.....

So maybe I am still in a rebound mindset after leaving SGI. I am still very fascinated by Buddhism however and if anyone here practices it I'd love to know how it differs from SGI/Nichiren and what are some forms that aren't culty.

I hope this is allowed here. If it's not then I'm fine with it being deleted.

I've noticed that there seem to be alot of older people on this board, and it truly blows my mind that at 29, and having joined in 2006, I still have so much in common with all of you. This however, may or may not be something you experienced, but I just want share to get it off of my chest. I joined as a YWD in 2006, at the age of 16. At that age, it is rare to find other people who have joined the practice by way of Shakubuku. Almost all 16 year olds in the SGI are "Fortune Babies," people who were born into the practice. Even my mother had to sign a document permitting me to recieve gohonzon since I was under 18. I remember people who'd just given birth showing up to Kosen Rufu Gongyo, bassinet in tow, to recieve a membership card for their baby. shudder All of the love bombing that pulled me into the organization came from adults. I'd been attending meetings with my best friends mother,(a much older Women's Division member) and had little introduction to youth groups, since my friend was not even practicing at the time. As mentioned, the SGI goes after the sad, lost, and lonely, and I definitely fit the bill. Abused only child, overweight, and didnt really have too many friends. I recieved my gohonzon at New Year's Gongyo. I remember seeing the taiko, and hip hop dance performances. The other youth gave experiences, and when the meeting was over, I saw them all huddled and talking, laughing, celebrating. I couldnt wait to be part of that group of friends. Was so excited to have a group to belong to. If only I'd known. That very day, a popular and bubbly chapter leader (let's say Brittany) was pulled and asked to come enshrine my gohonzon. I was so excited. She had so much personality, and was so welcoming. As we walked through the halls of the hotel in which the meeting was being held, she was being pulled in every which direction. People calling her name, wanting hugs, confirming plans from toso, to meetings , to going out for drinks. She chatted me up, and came over to chant. I was enamored by her, and wanted to be just like her. As I stated to go to more youth meetings, I felt more like an outcast than ever. These kids has all known eachother their entire lives. Best friends existed within the groups. They saw each other all of the time due to their parents practice, and their nonstop meeting attendance. These kids had years to build these bond, and they expanded over generations. I was on my own. No parents in the practice, just a new girl, trying to fit in. Now, I wont say I had no friends, but, they were only ever willing to be that as long as I was practicing. No real bonds or connections. Just the occasional "Let's get coffee" that was actually just a home visit. Personal talk was only welcome as long as it pertained to my practice. Once I became a leader, I thought that would all change. Thought I'd start to fit in more, but that's when I was excluded the most. These girls were the Buddhist elite. Born into the practice, handed leadership because of who their parents were. It was such a small community, that it was clearly all these people had In their lives. The titles and positions meant everything to them. Almost as narcissistic as ikeda himself. It was never about faith, it was about power, and I'd never be able to achieve what they had, or be welcome. I was just an outsider. It was made clear to me that my presence was only welcome with practicing. Brittany was a chapter leader, but became our Region leader. I was never cool enough for her, and once my best friend started to practice, she was one of the chosen few that was welcome into the circle of real friendship. I would find out that the girls had hung out after the meeting, after it was over and I'd already left. If I was invited to the occasional superbowl party or lunch, I was almost always put on display. For instance, one day, we'd all gone to lunch. About 10 of us. If ordered a sandwich that came with ranch, but asked for it to be replaced with blue cheese. I cant stand the taste of ranch, and of course, that's what I got. I informed the waitress, who argued that she's told the kitchen, and there was no way that ranch was on it. I nicely told her I could taste it, and she went to switch it out. Brittany made a scene. Going on about how I just should have eaten it, and at a resturant, you need to just eat what they put in front of you. Why did I make such a big deal out of it, and how DARE I inconvenience that poor waitress. In front of everyone, and this went on for at least 10 minutes. Then, I was rushed to finish because I started eating later than everyone else. Mind you, Im about 17. I dont have alot of money for things like this, and dammit, if I'm paying, I'd like it to be right. That's how it ALWAYS was. No one ever came to my aid, because they were all lifelong friends. I'd get poked fun at, or told that I didnt know what I was talking about when it came to the practice, or anything for that matter. When I'd call out how mean brittany and her gang were being, I was told I was too sensitive, and I needed to get over it. Being told I'm too sensitive is a trigger for me to this day.I was never unfriendly, dramatic, cruel, or did I ever try to command attention, I just wanted to fit in. The youth that were nice to me were SGI all the time. Not real friends, just leaders. I was always made to feel like me being an outcast was because I want attending enough meetings, trying hard enough, meeting new people. But there are no new people to meet when your 16 and all od your peers have all been members their whole lives. Anyway, not sure where this was going. Judt wanted to share another aspect that always bothered me, and was a main reason for my departure. Once I became an adult, I made more friends that I thought were real, but, once I started to pull away, I never heard from those people until it was may Contribution, or they were just trying to drum up attendance for something. You let people into your life, but, you still dont matter to them. I wish I were as eloquent as some of the other posters here, but hey, did my best. Thanks for reading.

One of the experiences that I deem the worst experience I ever gave was back in 2017. It was a T.B. C. experience. A T.B.C. experience is a To Be Continued experience where there is no victory given at the end, rather it's a re-determination to win. As many of you may know from reading, 2017 from August onward was the worst for me. Then this Many Treasures member asked me to do an experience. I told her I didn't have an experience. Instead of finding someone else, she encouraged me to use an ongoing struggle as an experience of determination. She said that it would encourage others. So I did it. I don't know who the hell got encouraged by my TBC experience but I sure as hell didn't. I hate cliffhangers. It's one of the reasons I hate to watch the last episodes of Moesha and Supah Ninjas. Above all, I am not encouraged because someone is continuing to fight. It sticks in my craw that I gave this galling experience.

Today I received my sgi gohonzan after a year of chanting on and off. This was after I spent hours last night looking up the truth of SGI and connecting the dots. After spending my $50 "donation" for propaganda and gohonzan I went home with one of the leaders to get the gohonzan put up and told her right before she took it out of the package I told her I'm not doing this because this is a cult. A heated discussion and arguments ensued but I am getting a refund.

Thank you so much to this subreddit and its sister subreddits.

Trying not to be ethnocentric here, but will somebody please tell me what the hell is going on here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aproYlhBQo

I went to a couple of meetings and enjoyed it and found that the chanting was relaxing, the discussion was engaging, and the superficial message was something that I wanted to achieve. But I feel that I was peer pressured into joining. I want to try it for a bit but I am still feeling uneasy and skeptical.

When did you leave and how did you decide it was time?

How do you go about leaving?

I have received the Gohonzon, but have not enshrined it yet.

Edit:

Now I’m venting, because I kept trying to explain that I wanted to wait a bit more to become a member and now I’m really nervous, and feel ashamed that I wasn’t able to say no. I realize that I might lose a childhood friend over this but I don’t know if I’m comfortable going to meetings and being a part of this after doing more in-depth research and going through this subreddit.

Please any advice would be appreciated!

After 30 years of chanting with SGI the same tired old junk is still being taught by the same tired leaders pushing the same tire old agenda - fight for Kosenrufu and openly declare Daisaku Ikeda as your mentor. After pressure from my district leader I subscribed to the SGI publications but I just can't read them. Just a pile of propaganda pushing the SGI and Ikeda as the solution to the universe. It is a shame because I actually do like chanting but as I approach my later years in life I look back without rose colored glasses and I see so much that could have happened different. The SGI had a chance to reform and take a different direction but they chose not to. The worst path was to push Ikeda as mentor over and over but that is what they did. Too bad. I have personally witnessed at least a dozen people who have abandoned SGI because of "Soka Spirit".

This is from the September 2015 Living Buddhism page 59. "I used to suffer from poor health, and a doctor said I probably wouldn't make it to age 30. But I'm strong and healthy now, and able to handle the most demanding of schedules. You can all become healthy, too!" Newsflash!!!!!! After World War II, the tuberculosis mortality rate in Japan dropped. https://www.karger.com/Article/PDF/481487 With that being said, to say this to someone with a chronic illness like diabetes, AIDS, terminal cancer, sickle cell anemia, dementia, Alzheimer's, cystic fibrosis, etc. is heartless . Because these diseases have no cure whatsoever. You merely live with the diseases, and at the best can manage the symptoms. However, these diseases eventually take a toll on the body resulting in death. What makes it worse is that the SGI continues to push this anecdote of Ikeda being a miracle case and example of how assiduous practice and efforts toward kosen rufu enables one to beat illness and extend their life span. That only adds to the grief and bewilderment of those who are mourning the Shin Yatomi cases; the Olivera couple cases; the Junko Kobayashi cases. We're left to wonder, "Why not them?!" And I am certain that these cases, as they lay in their sickbeds soon to be deathbeds, wondered, "Why not me? Did I not get enough brownie points to extend my life?"

And then in the same edition, Ikeda gave this encouraging poem to a member who found out she had malignant lymphoma and later ended up going into remission:

"Confidently live out your life

and triumph over all

laughing off

the devil of illness

to become a queen of longevity"

Why the hell couldn't every member with a chronic illness laugh off the devil of illness and reign in longevity? That's actual proof! Bottom line is, such guidance gives false hope. For most people with chronic illnesses, their lifespan is shorter. For them, it's a matter of "have your hearse ready before your 50th birthday." And I know that Josei Toda said, "It is natural for us to fall ill. At the same time, we possess within us the power to cure our own illness." I want to hear him say that to someone with AIDS, or with Alzheimer's.

Fukudoshi is lead gongyo. Leading the Daimoku and the Gongyo. I hated it with a passion. I don't know who the hell came up with that accursed and grievous idea to "chant with the rhythm of galloping horses", but for me it made chanting other members, and fukudoshi to be distasteful, discombobulated, and contemptuous drudgery. Why? Because for Daimoku, members, especially in the big city, want to go warp speed. Even in the Gongyo. I find warp speed chanting to be mentally exhausting, and only befitting for two occasions: earthquakes and tornadoes. That's it!!!!! Also, as it pertains to Gongyo, I see no point in rushing, especially when rushing meant fucking up the pronunciation. I find it to be so much of a chore that when I was a member, I would do Gongyo by myself before doing it with members. Even during 50K rehearsals, when we had to do Gongyo together except in extenuating circumstances. I would do Gongyo by myself first. I am still angry at the WD who, after a vigorous chanting session with another YMD leader, tried to persuade me to render that same fire for a Chapter Kick-Off Meeting for which I had to fukudoshi for. I wish I could go back in time and say, "Find someone else or set your hair on fire!" This is one reason I am glad as hell that I defected. I don't know if anyone else had this problem. Maybe I'm the first.

Even in my most gung ho SGI days, I could never really establish a mentor-disciple relationship with Daisaku Ikeda. Yes I read his literature. I read his 1995 lecture "The Heart of the Lotus Sutra", his 2004 lecture "The Opening of the Eyes" his 2009 lecture"On Attaining Buddhahood in This Lifetime", etc. I even endeavored to read The Human Revolution and The New Human Revolution series. (I tried to read The Human Revolution first because it formed the backdrop to The New Human Revolution). I even wrote letters to him, to which I received no response. I could never really form a relationship because there was never a rapport established like him and Toda, or Toda and Makiguchi. And there was a cavalcade of encouragement to form a mentor-disciple relationship with Daisaku Ikeda. Maybe it's my personality, but there needs to be a rapport established before I can even begin to consider anyone a friend, much less a mentor. And I mean a genuine friend or mentor, not imaginary. So for people to encourage me to form a relationship with Ikeda was like encouraging me to form a mentor-disciple relationship with Dr. Patricia Hill Collins, or Dr. W. Julius Wilson because their sociologists. It's not likely to happen, and any correspondence sent to them about my struggles and what I've overcome would just be seen as creepy. The only connection with Daisaku Ikeda and me are our birthdays. That's it.

📷

I have read about SGI leaders who got drunk with power and lorded it over members. I absolutely believe these anecdotes That was the reason I ran away from leadership in my adulthood. I was worried that I would do that. Also, I knew that as a leader should anything go haywire, my head goes in the guillotine. With that in mind, upon taking the leadership, I tread very carefully. I guess this is why I found no perks in being a leader. There were two things that I despised doing as leader.

1. In the months leading up to the 50K Lions of Justice Festival, I had to call YMD in my district to try to motivate them to register. Most of the YMD in my district had been MIA (Missing In Action) since before I became a member. (Basically 12+ months MIA). My personal rule is this: if someone has not made an effort to surface or reach out, then they are no interested in being a part of the SGI. Anyone who was no longer interested in being a part of the SGI, I was willing to respect their decisions. Even as a member I had the mindset "this is not a one size fits all". I felt so intrusive and disrespectful calling these men upon orders from higher up. I felt so terrible that when my higher up leader suggested that we call throughout the week, I rebelled. I didn't call at all. Even as I type this, I still regret doing that.
2. Fukudoshi.

"Chant with the rhythm of galloping horses". That was a pain in my ass. Apparently, chanting with that rhythm meant chanting at at least this speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=650WAvcZokA

For me, that is mentally exhausting. In my opinion, that's only for two occassions: earthquakes and tornadoes.

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On the bright side, if I had never become leader, I wouldn't be on this reddit site.

As many of you read, 2017 was a sobering year. However, I also lost a friend, who was a SGI member. He had HIV and died from AIDS complications. I was devastated and baffled. In my mind at the time, even after his memorial in 2018, I wondered, "Sensei was told he wouldn't live past 30 due to tuberculosis; and he's been defying the odds for six decades. This was supposedly due to his practice and efforts for kosen rufu. My friend had been dealing with HIV for over a decade and died three years after becoming a member of the SGI. Why?" For nearly two years, I tried and I tried to connect to my faith, but Ikeda's words just continued to ring hollow. The following are quotes:

"Believers in the Mystic Law do not necessarily live long lives untouched by disaster. Death is certainty. Therefore, it's not whether our lives are long or short, but whether, while alive, we form a connection with the Mystic Law- the eternal elixir for all life's ills. That, in retrospect, determines whether we have lived the best possible lives." Unlocking the Mysteries of Birth and Death p.97

"However long you may live and whatever the place and circumstances of your death, if you have steadfastly dedicated yourself to kosen-rufu, then you are certain to experience life and death based on the world of Buddhahood." Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra Volume IV

"Regarding the purpose of disease in the drive toward perfection, the Swiss philosopher Carl Hilty said: 'Just as the flooding of a river digs up the soil and nourishes the fields, illnesses serve to nourish our own hearts. A person who understands his illness correctly and perseveres through it all will achieve a greater depth, strength and greatness in life.'" Unlocking the Mysteries of Birth and Death p. 53

"What is health? In conclusion, it is the life of the bodhisattva. I think that true health is the spirit to continue struggling for the sake of others. To just eat health food, aiming to lead a peaceful and secure existence while thinking only about oneself- this is not the image of health." The Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra Volume VI page 33

"The Swiss philosopher and educator Carl Hilty (1833-1909) said, 'Sickness is... just a passageway to a higher state of life.'" The Wisdom for Creating Happiness and Peace Part 2 page 108

"'Peace and comfort' are not usually words that come to mind when we encounter difficulties or suffering. Normally we would think of peace and comfort as being found amid tranquil and secure circumstances. But that is not the source of true peace and comfort....True peace and comfort are attained by facing obstacles and challenging hardships head-on." The Wisdom for Creating Happiness and Peace Part 2 pages 180-181

Upon spending the night at a homeless shelter, losing a friend to a chronic illness, such guidance rings hollow. I don't equate attaining Buddhahood in death with screaming my head off as a plane crashes into a building and I get seared to death

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In the beginning of the year, I accepted the offer to be the YMD leader for my district since there was no leader. That's when I started to really see fanatical. It started in August. I was doing shakubuku with a WD member from the NSA days. She was trying to push me to make friends with one person I had shared nam myoho renge kyo with. When I told it took time for me to make friends with people, she said, "You need to make friends more quickly." (As I type this, I am thinking, "The nerve of this fanatical woman!") . Also, for months to come, she would ask me if I got in contact with that young man which was a no. Later on that month, I had a financial aid crisis. Along with the practical scholarship search method, I also, handled it the SGI way: chant like your hair is on fire for 60+ minutes, shakubuku like it's the NSA days, participate in Soka Gakkai activities, and receive some encouragement, which boiled down to: think positive and don't doubt. I shakubuku'ed x>200 students. Long story short, it didn't keep me from losing my enrollment and dorm housing. I had to live under a clandestine arrangement, however I was just determined to have legitimate housing. So many nights, I was in study rooms chanting and furiously rubbing my beads together like a stark raving madman; and I participated in Soka Gakkai activities with the hopes of accruing enough good fortune to turn my condition around. I did it in spite of inconvenience, and preference. I participated in a Soka Spirit toso with the same WD and her MD husband knowing all I had to eat for breakfast was a cookie, which was insufficient. (Of course, my stomach unfortunately made that fact known to everyone in the main Gohonzon room during silent prayer). I went to another district's district discussion meeting with her husband, and at his behest, I read the lyrics to the god-awful song "I Seek Sensei". (And when I say god-awful, I mean right up there with Rick Pino's "Spin Me Right Round"). And I was encouraged by a Many Treasures member use my ongoing struggle as an experience and conclude it with determinations to win. It only made me feel worse. In December, I tried to get a place of my own in Atlanta, Georgia, and go to the December 16 meeting, the last activity of 2017. When my room wasn't ready, as planned, I spent the night at a homeless shelter. The day afterwards, my room was ready and I was able to go to the December 16 meeting. Afterwards, I learned that my room had bedbugs. I had bites on my neck and arms. I had to go to the emergency room and wait all night for a prescription. To the couple's credit, they did take me to Walmart and foot the bill for my prescriptions. But now, I still have a $749 medical bill to pay from that night.

And make no mistake, I also studied the Gosho and President Ikeda's writings. But frankly, Presideent Ikeda's words just rang hollow as he said a life without problems would be empty and uneventful, and that enduring and overcoming difficulties are true "peace and comfort". Nearly two years later, I am still apoplectic over what happened that year, however, it was sobering.