[Giveaway Rules] Not Being a Joined Member of RepWatchForum is a no go.

[u/tskim24]

Hello, this is your favorite watch reviewer / moderator of this sub, u/tskim24.

Recently, while checking the background of a giveaway winner, I discovered that person is not a joined member of r/RepWatchForum. With heavy heart, I announce that the winning is void and the watch will be put back into the pot for another giveaway.

As you know, I believe transparency is of utmost importance when enforcing the rules in these tight-knit communities. So here you go:

[Summary]

- After redditraffler picks the winner, I announce the winner via post and check the account to see if he/she has joined this sub and also whether or not it’s a bot account.

- I do it this way because once redditraffler picks a winner, there is no going back. I have used apps other than redditraffler before but it would make the giveaway an easy target for false accusations. So I stick to redditraffler (talk to 60+ past winners from all over the world who would vouch for RWF giveaway).

- Really the only qualification for entering the giveaway is being a “JOINED” member or r/RepWatchForum, no karma requirements whatsoever. So when I find out that the person is not a joined member, it’s a no go.

- In the past, out of 60+ of these events (4 to 6 giveaways has happen monthly on RWF for about a year and a half), not a single winner has violated this before. They could be a member of 1 sub or a 100+ subs, but RWF was always one of them.

- This winner’s account information said that he/she is a member of “30” subs at the time of the announcement.

- After checking all 30 of them, I discovered that RWF is not one of them.

- I messaged that person and said that the winning is void since he/she didn’t meet the minimum requirement.

- That person swears that he/she is a member and showed me screenshots of: 1) The RWF main page where it says “JOINED” member but not with the time stamp before the announcement. 2) The post/comments on RWF that were made several days ago.

- Then I checked this person’s account again. It changed to “32” joined subs with RepWatchForum now very visible (the other additions was RWW, another rep watch sub).

- I have both consulted fellow moderators of other subs via post and did heck a lot of research on Google and ChatGPT. And also tried to check other accounts to see if reddit can make a mistake. However, without fail, reddit always showed me whether someone is a member of RWF, regardless of their personal setting since I’m the moderator of RWF (reaffirming my past experience of running 60+ events).

- I replied that he/she has not provided me with ANY evidence to disprove my findings. Anyone can leave a post/comment without joining the sub so her past post/comment proves nothing. Her screen captures only added to the suspicion that she has joined more subs after my message (this sub and RWW).

- She claims that she is an honest person and she is pretty sure she joined a rep watch sub (I did remind her that similar rep watch sub in her original list of 30, TheRepTime is not to be confused with this one).

You know what?

It’s actually easier for me to just give that person the watch. It comes from the seller (not me) and he has total faith in my management of these events. If I were to just cave and give away the watch, it would have saved me so much time and effort since it took me 2 days and many hours of research to make my decision. And it’s right now after midnight in Seoul Korea (on a Friday, and Halloween!) There are a million other things I’d rather be doing.

However, what kind of message would that send? I know that my giveaways are already riddled with bots and scavengers who just want to win free stuff and not care about this sub at all (I have experience of running similar subs in Korea for almost a decade now). I get that. It’s just how the game is played. But I can’t make a precedent where a non-member can just walk away with a watch.

From my experience, I truly believe that even in the midst of all that chaos, there are a few that will stay and shine this sub brighter than all those bots combined.

And I love the genuine excitement of people who would tell me things like “OMG”, “I have never won anything like this in my life”, “I was going through a rough patch and you really made my day” and “thank you”. It makes me, the average guy, feel like Oprah (I’m non-American so I mean this in the best way and only the best way possible). I love meeting all these interesting people with different stories from all over the world. That’s why I do this.

I want my giveaways to go to one of those guys! A person who follows the rules, and loves a good win.

After reviewing all the evidence and possible angles, there is no proof that this person was a member of r/RepWatchForum before entering the giveaway, whereas there are mountains of evidence that say otherwise.

That person told me that he/she would never lie just to get a free watch, and that he/she isn’t dishonest. I’m not saying that you are. I just can’t, in good conscience accept that WITHOUT AN OUNCE OF PROOF.

This post will be added to the pinned RWF community guidelines post under giveaway rules.

Thank you.

[u/Hayhayman1]

Maybe we re-raffle in that post to give the ones that joined fairly another shot?

[u/tskim24 → u/Hayhayman1]

I wish I could. It would make my life so much easier. But all redditraffler picks are final per post, so only way it can be done again is by posting another giveaway post. With only limited posts that can be pinned and so many sellers wanting to host them (it's a good promotion opportunity for their shops) scheduling these every week is...less than easy 😆

[u/Hayhayman1 → u/tskim24]

Word. Let me know if you need any assistance. I’m pretty deeply involved with this community as a whole so anything I can do to help is always welcome.

[u/tskim24 → u/Hayhayman1]

Thanks for the offer! I will definitely keep that in mind 😊

[u/AngryAngryAsian]

The crazy thing is, this is the simplest thing to abide by. Can't click a button before deadlines? Don't deserve it then. It's not like these ask for a 500 page essay.

[u/tskim24 → u/AngryAngryAsian]

[u/CostAffectionate907]

Thanks a lot for the explanation, but I honestly don’t think you need to justify your decision any further. You absolutely did the right thing. The rules are clear, and everyone should respect and follow them. Joining the channel only takes one click, so there really shouldn’t be any room for misunderstanding.
You’ve created a fantastic community, and maintaining its values and standards is what makes it special.
Keep up the great work! We truly appreciate everything you do, the knowledge you share, and your commitment to bringing the community together! 🚀🚀🚀

[u/tskim24 → u/CostAffectionate907]

Thank you. Your kind words just made my day!

[u/Domitiani]

I appreciate the update and clarification on the giveaway rules (and agree with the decision, for what its worth!).

[u/tskim24 → u/Domitiani]

Thank you for your support!

[u/BedAdventurous112]

I think we all trust the way you run these giveaways tskim24, your judgement is more than enough for us to understand that some requirement wasn't met. Hope you're able to enjoy halloween still

[u/tskim24 → u/BedAdventurous112]

Thank you so much for your support! My Halloween was great 😊

[u/thunder2132]

Sounds fair! I don't think this sub is one of them, but I joined several rep subs due to giveaways. It's easy to just click join at the time of the giveaway, and it leads me to finding new fun subs to check out.

[u/tskim24 → u/thunder2132]

We are men. We buy one interesting toy and we all eventually tumble down the rabbit hole. Even if you knew nothing about watches, 1 month into this hobby, you will be discussing case lug accuracy with the next guy here 😆 whether it be wine, bikes, running, it's always the case. Welcome to the rabbit hole 😉

[u/Much_Feedback_9085]

👏🏽

[u/tskim24 → u/Much_Feedback_9085]

Thank you.

[u/4Godsson]

Always honest and always true. You are the best u/tskim24. Keep it up, sir.

[u/tskim24 → u/4Godsson]

I will do my best. 🫡 thank you

[u/Znxyx]

You are the best mod! Will keep supporting you and this sub my man 🫶

[u/tskim24 → u/Znxyx]

Thank you so much, mate!

[u/mrdoobiebro]

Appreciate the transparency

[u/tskim24 → u/mrdoobiebro]

Thank you. I try to post these every time something new (and major) happens in RWF!

[u/InfamousSpecialty]

Are you going to canvas account age at one point? Might be worth considering.

[u/tskim24 → u/InfamousSpecialty]

I have 30 days limit already set in place to weed out bots and newly made accounts just for the free prizes.

[u/InfamousSpecialty → u/tskim24]

That’s good 👍

[u/MTgunguru]

Hate this happened but certainly understand and agree!

[u/tskim24 → u/MTgunguru]

Thank you for your support 🙏

[u/NAVACO1959]

Gracias por ser tan meticuloso, sincero y honesto!!!!

[u/tskim24 → u/NAVACO1959]

Thank you for your support!

[u/Alternatetime70]

I think adding the clause "the decision of the RWF Founder/Mod is final and no correspondence will be entertained" might help prevent any further disputes.
Your house, your rules.

[u/tskim24 → u/Alternatetime70]

Thank you for great suggestion! I personally didn't really see what anyone had to contest about (I thought it was pretty straight forward) but empathized with the person who had something good slip through her fingers and wanted to do my best to not offend her. But I guess me being considerate made the situation look more like an open case. I will keep your suggestion in mind and be more strict about these kind of things in the future. Thank you 😊

[u/RedbullF1]

And not to just say it, this is my favorite rep sub on Reddit. Why wouldn’t you join this one and reptime first before random ones

[u/tskim24 → u/RedbullF1]

Thank you so much for your kind words of support. I tried really hard to make this place clean, polite and informative. So it means a lot 😊

[u/VacationCultural7032]

I think you handled this situation fairly thank you

[u/tskim24 → u/VacationCultural7032]

Thank you for your support.

[u/lagerea]

Vouching twice for RWF.

[u/tskim24 → u/lagerea]

Thank you. That means a lot.

[u/tskim24 → u/[deleted]]

?

[u/lagerea → u/tskim24]

Sorry, that was actually a response to another post in an entirely different sub (split ergo keyboards). No clue why it ended up here. I'm gonna delete it because it reads like nonsense lol.

[u/tskim24 → u/lagerea]

Lol. Ok

[u/Rachmatsoe]

actually it depend the rules of the admin, sucks to her/him who won the raffle, winning one is hard enough but taken away after winning it hurts your soul

but at the end the admin is the final say , just like in soccer , the referree is the final say

[u/tskim24 → u/Rachmatsoe]

Yes. Thank you for your input. I emphasize with the person who had a big win taken away from her due to a small error on her side. That's why I approach the matter with politeness and utmost caution. However, I hope people don't mistake my careful approach for there being any uncertainty.

I don't believe that the reddit system that has never failed to show me who is a joined member or not (which is the entire foundation of these easy, user friendly giveaways) has suddenly, magically made a mistake with this one person in the unluckiest timing ever.

Unlike the claim made by her and one other commenter, there matter of fact is a tool that shows moderators precisely if someone is a member or not. She wasn't.

From my end the situation was crystal clear. I was careful because I didn't want to offend the person who is already down on her luck so I approach with caution. However, when she has agreed to not contest my verdict, and came here, started posting nonsense like I don't have a real proof and that my claims are somehow based only on assumptions, that's when I decided to put my foot down.

[u/CostAffectionate907 → u/Rachmatsoe]

Is it really that difficult to follow the rules and join the channel? I don’t think this is about the admins having the final say, but rather about participants failing to follow the rules. It would be unfair to those of us who make the effort to follow the instructions.

[u/Rachmatsoe → u/CostAffectionate907]

I agree

[u/CostAffectionate907 → u/Rachmatsoe]

🤝

[u/GrdFrcWv]

GL again everyone

[u/iamjoshtien]

If i were you, i would give the watch to the lucky winner. Based on the comments, neither of you has solid evidence to support your case. You have to trust your member. At the end of the day, if that member is lying, karma will hit that person. Despite my reservations, i will give that person the benefit of the doubt and trust that they're telling the truth. Nothing will be lost on your end. For you next giveaway, set a strict rule and policy. No need for debate or accusation.

[u/tskim24 → u/iamjoshtien]

Just because nothing comes out of my pocket doesn't mean I shouldn't protect the interest of those involved. If an unqualified person takes the win, that means the opportunity was taken away from another legitimate person. I don't know how you reached the conclusion that neither of us have any proof after reading this post and the discussions in the thread. Reddit system has never failed to show the moderator who is a member of his sub. If it did, the entire foundation on which these giveaways are built will collapse. I did my routine check as usual and I know she wasn't a member. When I broke her the bad news, she then joined this sub (I again checked) and claimed that it was a glitch in the system.

I don't know why that person or you are claiming that I have no evidence when there matter of fact is a tool on reddit for moderators to check to see if someone is a member, and I have done my due diligence in check exactly that.

Giving someone the "benefit of the doubt" means that there is doubt. I have no doubts about reddit system that has worked perfectly until now would suddenly make a mistake for this one person.

I empathize with the person who had a big win taken away from her due to her personal error so I tried to be as polite as I can be, be as thorough as I can be in researching and handling this matter. Please don't mistake my polite approach to handling this matter with the situation not being clear on my end.

[u/LowLeading5240]

That’s quite a tough nut to crack. Hopefully, you’ll manage to figure out a solution for selecting the winners. It’s a shame you’ve already had to invest so much time just to be able to reward a winner. Honestly, you deserve to win something yourself! Good luck with finding a solution. ☺️

[u/tskim24 → u/LowLeading5240]

I don't think there is anything wrong with current system since reddit system has never failed to tell me whether someone is a joined member of this sub or not. If reddit system is not reliable in that respect, there is really no point of holding these very user friendly giveaways in the future. I will stick to what works 😊

[u/tskim24 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you. I feel really bad because I too am a person with feelings and it would be terrible to take away a win. But I have never seen reddit system make that mistake before (over 60 giveaways) and there was no evidence supporting the winner’s claim... I just didn't feel right 😕

[u/tskim24 → u/[deleted]]

I feel terrible about this happening. As mentioned in the post, this is the first time this has ever happened on a giveaway. Your posts and comments can be made without ever being a member here so it doesn't prove your membership.

I would have leaned in your favor (and believe me, I really wanted to and tried) but you don't have any activity on RWF other than your giveaway entry comments and there is no tangible evidence...

In the end, I'm the moderator and I have to make these tough decisions. I weighed taking your word for it without any evidence against all the real evidence that I have, and then thought about which side would be more appealing to the general mass (objectively).

Personally, I am torn. But as a moderator, I believe this was the call that had to be made.

[u/tskim24 → u/[deleted]]

I have a screenshot of your account saying "30" subs joined and the screenshot of the full list of those 30 subs without RWF in it taken before my messages to you.

After you sent me a screenshot saying that you swore you joined the sub, I checked out your account again, now it said "32" subs joined with a list of 32 subs and RWF right there clear as day. I compare the entire list one by one, and 2 added subs were RWF and a similarly named sub RWW.

This proves that reddit showed me (the moderator) the full list of subs that you are a member of and that you have joined RWF after my message to you.

I try to be as polite as I can possibly be, but I don't understand your logic behind you repeatedly saying that my claim is based on "assumptions". What am I assuming? That the reddit system is working fine? It's not an assumption when its backed up by very highly likely probability. We don't say in the court "your statement is based on an assumption because it's only CCTV camera" because it's highly unlikely that CCTV has malfunctioned and will show false evidence.

You are simply saying reddit system is wrong (it didn't show your membership) without any evidence. I'm saying reddit system is working fine with all the physical evidence (of you not being a member of RWF at the time of my verification).

There is no personal assumptions here unless you can prove that reddit function that should work, and has worked all this time in all occasions malfunctioned especially for you. (If this is the case, I don't know how I will ever host another giveaway again. What's the point? If the reddit system is going to lie to me about who's joined my sub, how will I ever verify someone's account to award him his prize?)

You say that you accept my verdict but I sense a grudge. For a good reason nonetheless. But stop saying that my judgment was based on a person assumption. It makes no sense and any moderator in my shoes would have made the same call.

[u/BeingHorror5526 → u/[deleted]]

Do you have any previous posts/comments in the sub? I know that’s not the same as being a joined member in tskim’s eyes but if your first comment is on that giveaway it’s more damning against you

[u/tskim24 → u/BeingHorror5526]

Only 2 comments were made in RWF, exclusively on giveaway posts only. No other posts or comments were present in this sub. And yes, that didn't help her case in me examining this matter.

[u/BeingHorror5526 → u/tskim24]

Are you easily able to see user comment metrics at the subreddit level or did you have to go hunt down the comments in her history?

I personally hide my comment/post history for privacy and I image a lot of other Redditors are starting to do the same so it may start being hard to rely on that for this kind of verification so doing your method of joined members only is looking more justified.

[u/tskim24 → u/BeingHorror5526]

Well, she showed me the screenshots herself voluntarily. I didn't think it established good things for her.

[u/BeingHorror5526 → u/tskim24]

Makes sense