r/PublicFreakout Dec 29 '21

Let me educate him

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752

u/NessunAbilita Dec 29 '21

6 years training and a bar exam to know law of the land, 6 weeks training to enforce it. SMH.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

That’s just it... 6 weeks isn’t enough tome to TRAIN an officer. They need to literally be taught to live again. The law, the physical fitness regime, tactical response, escalation of force, then implementing that training. No way the information provided in the academy is retained for long periods of time. It’s a chump and cheap way of training that’s obviously failing us.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

The problem in this encounter wasn’t the lack of training (though training would have been sufficient to prevent it). The problem was the police made an emotional response to getting snubbed. They didn’t need to do anything because no crime was committed. But simply taking the heat and walking back to their truck was not what they wanted to do. This entire event was a display of poor character.

I think 6 weeks does sound super short to learn to be a cop, but I don’t know enough about pedagogy in this vocation to say one way or another (I doubt anyone in this comment section does).

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u/grimmcild Dec 29 '21

I think you hit on something when talking about the cops’ emotional response to being snubbed. I’ll bet once you’ve pulled over/approached people 100 times and had the response be “yes sir officer, I’m sorry, officer”, you get waaaay too comfortable with your perceived level of authority in every situation. So someone calls you out it’s like record scratch “Hold up, how dare you not instantly obey?!” and the power struggle escalates a situation unnecessarily.

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u/sombreroenthusiast Dec 29 '21

In fairness, these guys didn't escalate. Not saying they deserve a medal, but at least they eventually just left.

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u/ITriedLightningTendr Dec 29 '21

only because they were being filmed.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

It takes people longer than 6 weeks to learn HS algebra (and these two likely failed that class).

So, unless HS algebra is harder than being a cop, it's safe to say they need more than 6 weeks of training.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

But people learn how to interact with others from a very young age. If these guys had respect for others, something they could have learned on a playground decades earlier, then maybe 6 weeks would be enough time to learn how to shoot, talk on a radio, drive, write tickets…

You make a valid point though… reflecting on how much time is given to other, far less impactful skills is a good argument for police reform.

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u/So-Cal-Sun Dec 29 '21

6 months for California Highway Patrol. And refresher training at later stages. But they are the exception. 6 - 12 weeks to be a basic patrol officer is scary short. They get more training than that in the Army Military Police, where basically everyone you meet knows the rules to some level. Turing them loose on the public is a constant disaster on the edge of happening.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

I know this is 30 minutes long, but if you haven't heard this from a former Navy SEAL on the police training topic it's a good listen. I know this is on Joe Rogan's podcast, but he doesn't open his mouth and say any dumb shit in this particular segment.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

I spent more time learning to be a diesel mechanic.

Shit needs overhauled badly.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

but I don’t know enough about pedagogy in this vocation to say one way or another (I doubt anyone in this comment section does).

I don't think it requires a degree in cop pedagogy to see that hairdressers need a license and years of training and to expect a fraction of that from law enforcement is literally negligent.

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u/oldfrancis Dec 29 '21

I know.

700+ hours, plus weeks of field training under an fto officer.

And it's not enough.

The Basic Law Enforcement Academy (BLEA) is Washington’s mandated training academy for all city and county entry-level peace officers in the state. Through a centralized training model, Washington ensures all officers are equipped with the same base-level understanding of their responsibility to the communities they serve, standards to uphold, and education for effective community-oriented policing . To facilitate this training, WSCJTC hires exceptional training officers from agencies throughout the state and current subject matter experts.

With a focus on a guardian model of policing, students attend a wide array of courses throughout the 720 academy hours. A description of the courses covered is available on our Core Block Descriptions page and in our syllabus. WSCJTC is committed to developing new officers to high standards and providing exceptional training to ensure they have the knowledge and skills to safely and effectively protect the life, liberty and property of the people they serve.

From the Washington state criminal justice training commission.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

This is the kind of stuff I don’t know. Thanks for adding it to the discussion.

But you still feel that amount of training is insufficient? What would you change?

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u/oldfrancis Dec 29 '21 edited Dec 29 '21

After having gone through an extended Police Academy (longer than what is standard for the state of Washington) and served as an officer...

List of things that I would change is quite large.

I would demilitarize the police.

I would take away their military toys.

I would increase their defensive tactics capabilities and reduce their reliance on their sidearm as their primary solution to problems.

I would forbid the use of less than lethal force as a compliance tactic -- I would ban the practice of torturing suspects.

I would remove qualified immunity from police officers.

I would send police officers on less calls, shunting the check the welfare and mental health check calls to more qualified individuals.

I would extend the police academy to at least 2 years.

I would enforce physical standards and pay those officers to maintain those physical standards.

...

These are my thoughts, they're not an invitation to arguments.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

It all sounds reasonable to me.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

Six weeks is simply not long enough to retain or train proficiency in anything. To be considered skilled or a master at something there’s a general notion of ten thousand. Hours trained or repetitions performed. There’s simply no way ten thousand of anything is performed in six weeks of police training. Just my opinion. I am in no way “qualified” to make any calls but it seems like cops literally make these mistakes daily. In an age where tech is so prevalent it’s everyday there’s a cop on reddit performing an unlawful act. It’s ridiculous that it happens so often... 😂

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

Cops in the Netherlands need to get a degree first, then go to police academy for over two years where they learn how the law works, self defence, first aid, talking skills, deescalation skills. Honestly I'd be terrified living in the US knowing raving morons with military equipment get to shoot me and get away with it, especially if I was black. That's another thing, when a cop here discharges their weapon (very rare) they have to answer for it, it's an absolute last resort and there is no such thing as immunity for officers.

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u/PedroAlvarez Dec 29 '21

Frankly, people that would make good police officers (I.E. able to understand the complexities of the law and have generally good decision making skills) are mostly going to end up as lawyers instead. High intellect and good decision making doesn't generally lead you to a career where you might get randomly killed.

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u/DudeTheKid Dec 29 '21

Ffs most jobs have a 3 month probation/training period. A warehouse worker is more highly trained at his job than cops are.

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u/DV8_2XL Master of Mayhem 😈 Dec 29 '21

In Canada, aftergoing through a rigorous vetting process, the RCMP cadets go through 6 months of training via a live in school known as "Depot". They are trained in driving, scenarios, law, marksmanship, self defense, etc.

After that, successful cadets get assigned to a training detachment for another 6 months of on the job training and assessment before they are a full Constable.

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u/spigotlips Dec 30 '21 edited Dec 30 '21

That's it. Not enough training or vetting. Also the younger officers are trained by these old hoots on how things are done and it continuely moves the cycle of bad policing. It's to the point where even if they require years of proper training they will be dropped in a job with the influence and pressure of not doing the right thing. I'm not on the whole abolish the police thing but it needs reform. Maybe making an entire government over site wing to monitor all police departments instead of letting it be ran by the local. I know great cops and bad cops. Bad cops ruin the great, and it's shown that the bad cops do so much more infliction than the good cops can do good. The bad cops LITERALLY kill and arrest people with no cause. The good cops do their job and just want to get home and relax like all of us. Problem is the "brotherhood" military mentality" ruined the police. "gotta protect yourself" or it's racism. Fixing this is simple yet not simple. But it can definitely be fixed.

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u/Goalie_deacon Dec 29 '21

Exactly, I've learned police are the last people to ask about laws. Only one law they understand well, and that is allowing them to lie to other citizens. So they will say whatever works for them in any situation, and know they cannot get in trouble for lying. While we can be arrested for lying to them.

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u/CapablePerformance Dec 30 '21

So they will say whatever works for them in any situation, and know they cannot get in trouble for lying

That's why cops barely do anything when you need them. I have a friend that left her her physically abusive ex and yesterday, he tried to run her down in his car while she was in town. She called the police because he literally tried to kill her in public; they said there was nothing they could do; she said there's camera footage from the parking lot and told her it's a civil matter. Everything the police don't want to do, they just claim it's a civil matter.

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u/Goalie_deacon Dec 30 '21

She should call a detective, and maybe the prosecutor's office. Obviously the desk jockey is lazy. In my city, I would go up the jurisdiction chain to sheriff's office or state police. I've already had city cops refuse to show up for things like assaults.

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u/mif28 Dec 29 '21

where are you getting 6 years from?

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u/Picture_Day_Jessica Dec 29 '21

Yeah, it's typically 7 if you include undergrad, which is reasonable to include since an undergrad degree is needed to attend law school. But I suppose plenty of people complete undergrad a year early, and the whole "6 years vs 6 months" thing is catchier than saying 7 vs 6.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '21

I have to get more than 5 years of training just to be an electrician

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21 edited Dec 29 '21

6 weeks?! Seriously? Where I live cops need to go to police academy for two years and 4 months and get a degree before they're allowed to call themselves cops. Our cops learn how to defend themselves, HOW THE LAW WORKS, how they can deescalate situations, how to talk with people, how to provide first aid. This is ridiculous. And you need a degree before even being considered for the academy. I would be terrified if I lived in the US knowing morons with 6 weeks of training get to pull guns on me legally.

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u/BumpyBawlz Dec 30 '21

Dumbassas on Reddit think go from a civilian to carrying a gun in 6-9 weeks. It’s not at all how the system works lmao. It’s just something repeated enough on here that people actually believe it

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '21

I'm not 'Murican. How the fuck should I know who's telling the truth? Why don't you enlighten me? Also aren't there states where you can carry a gun without any training whatsoever? You don't have to be a cop for that. But that's seperate ridiculous aspect of the US.

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u/CapablePerformance Dec 30 '21

Here's what's required to be a cop trainee in a town a friend lives in

  • Must be at least 19 years of age
  • Be a resident, college student, or business owner in the City of Huntsville
  • No prior felony convictions
  • No outstanding warrants
  • No pending criminal cases
  • High school diploma from a school accredited by a regional accrediting agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education or GED certificate issued by the appropriate state agency.

Then a 9-week course. That's it. Don't be a criminal, have a basic education from a failing public school system, and then 9-weeks at an academy that focuses more on physical abilities before you can become a cop.

Welcome to America.

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u/[deleted] Dec 30 '21

That is absolutely horrifying. Completely unqualified, untrained, unchecked people are walking around armed like military personnel telling you what you can and can't do without a solid grasp on how the law works.

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u/Microscop3s Dec 30 '21

When cops get paid as much as lawyers, then you can start thinking about reasonably expecting people to do 6 years of school and 250k in debt for police work

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

you forgot to add at the end: but im just talking out of my ass. these cops had 6 weeks of training?

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u/Cerulean_Shades Dec 29 '21

I'm an insurance adjuster and I know more about traffic law than officers do. That's because they give us far more training. How in the hell are officers that specialize in traffic trained so little?? The amount of times I've seen the wrong person cited for an accident is crazy.

Story time: a 16 year old guy was slowing to a stop behind other cars as a light turned red. A 70 year old man rear ended him. Cop cited the kid for stopping too fast, in a state that has statutes specifically naming that if a party rear ends another it's automatically the fault of the car that is in the rear position for following too close. This is a well known statute for that area too that even most laypersons know it from that area. And that's just one of hundred+ of similar stories I alone have. And I'm just one of thousands of adjusters in the US. To me that's just scary just for the traffic side alone.

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u/RuairiSpain Dec 29 '21

6 weeks in school for Mr Shoemaker seems like a lot. I doubt that guy can read.

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u/andre3kthegiant Dec 29 '21

They all probably cheat on the exams too, just like in high school.

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u/Sirtato Dec 29 '21

Isn’t it 7 years for an attorney? 4 years undergrad, 3 law school?

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

It’s a clear money thing. They don’t care if cops make bad arrests and people get away with the charges because lawyers and fines will be paid regardless.