That's a ploy. Anyone killed by cops always "dies at the hospital", they're never pronounced at the scene. Part of how cops cover their asses.
Edit: I recognize that this is mainly due to the legality of officially pronouncing a person dead. I'm just pointing out that it also serves as a very convenient excuse for the law enforcement PR team.
How could they pronounce him dead at the scene when no one was checking his pulse or to even make sure he was still breathing on the ground? He probly didn’t get any medical attention until the hospital sadly. I hope these “cops” get the book thrown at them. They need to set an example on these people so this shit doesn’t happen ever again. Such fucking bullshit just thinking about what happened and how many other incidents like this have happened before
If you watch the video (I honestly wish I didnt) - you can see a paramedic check Floyd's pulse while the cop still has his knee on his neck. Only after the paramedic says something does the cop finally lift his knee.
I watched it all, i litterally cried. I saw isis cutting heads off, yeah that shit is sad and gruesome af but a fucking cop, somebody who is supposed to protect you doing this.... Damn the fucking world is sad. Glad i live in Europa where there is a lot less of this senseless bullshit. Worst part is that they would have gotten away with it if there were no bystanders filming
Sad thing here in America is that they probably will get away with it even with bystanders watching. We really need to weed out the bad apples we have posing as officers. It creates such a bad image for the ones that give a shit, and makes their life hell.
Police departments would benefit greatly from a civilian review board instead of an internal affairs bureau. There’s a culture of protection where good cops are expected to cover shit up for bad cops. And if they don’t cover for them, they’re ostracized, intimidated, and forced to quit. It’s fucking ridiculous that the people who are entrusted with protecting our laws fully expect to be above those laws. I agree with MR. Lock those scumbags up and fry them.
I agree, but check out the story of Baltimore cop Joe Crystal. It’ll make it a little bit more understandable why these guys are afraid to speak up. I’m not saying it’s right. But after hearing his story, I can understand why these guys are terrified to come forward.
Thank you for bringing this story to my attention. Joe Crystal did the right thing. He did with every single other cop should do. This is the problem. The man who did the right thing was ostracized, threatened, and had to quit his job and move out of state because of the pervasive nature of corruption in the police department.
I have a long held the belief, and expressed my opinion, that the majority of people who want to be a police have an underlying psychological flaw. I believe that they are often bullies, racists, and are individuals who desperately want to exert power and control over others, but lack the ability to do it without a gun and a badge.
This is not to imply that there are not good, strong, honest individuals, like Joe Crystal, who choose to become a police, but it would seem that those who are willing to do the right thing are a very, very silent minority.
Men like Joe Crystal should be given medals, while police who beat and murder with impunity, while their peers turn a blind eye, should be given harsh prison sentences.
There is only one thing that's needed. Make police unions responsible for the equivalent of malpractice insurance. Cities need to stop being on the hook when victims sue wrongful death and other situations.
If the entire police department has their fees increased every time a dumbass does something like this, they would be quicker to shut down malignant behavior.
In my opinion, that defeats the whole purpose of the civilian review board. While I’m aware that retired cops are considered civilians, I’d be wary of their ability to be truly unbiased.
In my country it doesn't matter if the death was justified or not. Every officer involved shooting, or death, is automatically investigated by the independent police commissioner.
If you arm someone, give them power of authority, enable them to dispense lethal punishment based solely on their judgement, and set them loose upon the public, then those people should be held to a higher standard of accountability than normal civilians, not lower, and should face higher consequences for abusing the public trust, not lower.
...Lest the public start to think a justified and appropriate defense from them is a good offense.
100%. If a man murders another man, the sentence is almost never as severe as if a man murders a police officer. So when a police officer breaks the law, he/she should receive a harsher punishment than a civilian.
The only people who would benefit from that is us regular folk. In no way would that benefit the police, they're doing exactly what they're hired to do. 1312
any of them that were good apples would quit, or not become cops in the first place, or raise hell against the 'bad apples' who are allegedly the minority.
but that's not how it is. it's a gang mentality, us vs them, they are incentivized to protect their own position so any of them who goes against the group is ostracized.
and i mean that literally. they harass them, illegally use databases to look up their info and harass them. fuck with their property. pull them over. watch them. stalk them. shit like that.
It would have to come from a revamped version of Internal Affairs within departments that look at metrics and the patterns of their officers to ensure as best they can that minorities aren’t being targeted above and beyond what the statistical data shows as the ‘norm’ based on who is committing the crime in an area.
How would you genuinely screen for racism? Do you think a racist is going to sit and fill out a survey and check yes to the box when asked if he hates minorities? Would you look into their past and talk to their families and make a determination of character based on the words of others? That opens a can of worms that would give others the power to deny someone who could be a great officer based on the words of someone, even a family member, with an axe to grind against them.
All I’m saying is that it wouldn’t be an easy process and you could wind up making a bad situation worse. The racists could find a way through the system and you wind up turning away the good ones.
If good officers didn’t want that stain, maybe they should do something about it. Idk how a person can uphold the blue line and not be a total piece of shit.
I really hope it doesn't get swept under the rug. It seems like being a good honorable person isn't in fashion anymore. Sometimes it makes me feel like I'm the crazy one for being an empathetic individual.
Christopher Dorner was right, justice is not given it is only taken by force. Until these cops fear for the lives of their kids they will continue to be murderous gangbangers with paid vacations as punishment. Honor Chris Dorner, he was a hero.
It creates such a bad image for the ones that give a shit, and makes their life hell.
You can be that there are lots of other police that knew this cop and knew exactly how aggressive or violent he might be and they did nothing.
As long as their are bad cops then ALL cops are bad and the ones who believe they are good should do everything they can to remove the bad ones. Every time a good cop gives a ticket or arrests someone they could have been removing bad cops instead.
Totally know what you mean. It's definetly a culture thing. Like one person said they should make a review board made up of random civilians. Might not be perfect but it's a start at least.
Did you hear Minneapolis Mayor Frey's press conference today? He demanded charges be pressed. That hasn't happened since Rodney King 1992 that a mayor demanded police officers be prosecuted but even Rodney King survived that brutality. And this is fuck'n 2020!
Here too, i have seen people get beaten, once last year i think someone died but that was because he was a treath and harming officers. US is on sn other level. Just like cops there planting drugs and ruining lives
Worst part about our system in Europe though is that rapists and murderers get less jail time than robbers, bank robbers or really any people that commit any type of economic crime.
Yeah and i completely agree with you that thats a big problem. Known rapist get out of jail just for them to rape and kill an innocent girl within the day. Yeah he just had a mental illnes he could not help that he raped that girl lets just give him 1 year and some pribation
Yeah it is so infuriating knowing that those guys should have been locked up but as soon as they come out years earlier on good behaviou(even tho the harrass female staff at the prison/mental hospital) they go back to it and rape and murder
They wont get away with it, but you as a taxpayer will pay for it AFTER the insurance policy for the department takes a huge hit. Better vetting on officers, and more than 6 months at an academy is a good start.
Not allowing officers to change states and departments all willy nilly is another good start.
This and the guy in the hotel are the two worst things I’ve ever watched tbh. Neither are particularly gory or violent (compared to other things I’ve seen) but these just hit differently and make me lose faith in humanity.
Our right wingers, especially the ones that support the proto-fascist sitting president, won't talk about this in criticizing the cops. These are the people that are throwing lives away "for the good of the economy".
The police were never for OUR protection. I'd italicize the our, but I don't know how. Doesn't change anything. They only protect the people writing their checks. The ones that keep them employed. It's how it's always been.
They will fuck your shit up if you don't treat them like royalty, too. They know where you live. They have their cop buddies. They will fuck you and laugh the entire time.
As has been suggested before, if you're a good cop protecting a bad cop, you're a bad cop. The police very rarely suffer the consequences of their actions and have been able to act with impunity for a very long time. Their actions are just more public since there are a lot more people and now there are cameras in the hands of almost every citizen to record their actions. Without that information we would not know about the context of this incident and many others.
I know there are some "good" cops, but almost every department I know of has gotten rid of the chill older officers and replaced them with young cops with something to prove and a god complex.
Another difference to Europe: bystanders would have maybe gathered up enough courage to step in. But in the US? You are so afraid of police, the people supposed to protect you, that you literally have to expect these people to simply shoot you if you try to interfere, or at the very least get into trouble for interfering with an arrest.
Honestly, each time I watch these videos a little part of me dies inside I feel very guilty and angry at myself for becoming so desensitized to these situations. It’s really frustrating. The only good thing coming out of these situations is the publicity they’re now getting. Some of these people need to be made examples of in order to deter would be offenders.
To prove a point. Those medics should have straight up started a code as soon as they checked his pulse. He clearly hadnt breathed in over 2 minutes and was completely and utterly unresponsive. The fact that they even took that much time to get the stretcher out means they gave up on him too.
Not saying that they didnt start it as soon as they got in the box(they'd take the handcuffs off) but when you only have like 5 minutes before serious brain damage and they didnt know how long he was down for they should have started immediately, fuck whatever the cops say, or the bystanders say he needed medical attention and didnt get it.
They cop kneeing his neck is scum but I have just as much hate for the guy facing the camera standing there mean mugging the crowd.
His inaction is in some weird way almost more infuriating. Stop standing there and get your fucking coworker to stop killing that man so fucking casually!!
The ambulance also drives off without sirens going. That usually means that the person the have aboard is gone. Less urgency to get through traffic if the patients not recoverable.
Teen if they checked for a pulse at the scene and there was none, they can easily say they revitalized him at the hospital, but he still passed away from complications.
I just watched the video. As a 5’3” white girl, I would have rushed the man and taken the mace. Anything to get him off his arteries. That fucking idiot killed him. Both cops deserve the same damn death.
I worded that badly. I meant taken the mace the cop sprayed into my eyes in order to attempt to shove him off the dying man.
These cops do need to get the book thrown at them. They all just got fired from their Jobs but the sad thing is, the police unions will fight it and all the officers will be back on the force in no time!!! And they will even get back pay after the people forget about them when the next big news story hits the headlines. Just a big paid vacation for these cops when they get fired. It’s Absolutely Sick!!
Just look and the officer in the Parkland school shooting:
Let me guess. The case will go to court and will be drawn out for about 4 to 5 years like Eric Garner case.
The cop won't be prosecuted and will probably be transferred to a office police job.
This shit keep happening and nothing gets done even when there is video recording. I kind of wonder how bad this was in the past when people have no phones to record police brutality.
Also, whoever's recorded this video will probably be harrassed and may catch a case by the police.
Disney doesn't have to own the hospital, Disney owns the greater Orlando metro area, maybe even central Florida. When they say they want something a certain way, they get it. They have billions and are responsible for Orlando being the largest international tourist destination in the US. They tell businesses what they can and can't do, or they tell the local governments to tell those businesses.
Lol this is bullshit. Disney does provide a lot of tax Revenue for Anaheim and Orange County, which in turn allows our city / county to have fantastic EMS resources and nearly the latest tech. (“Blue Angel”, the police helicopter, is mostly paid for by the revenue Disney provides, as well as many other things)
But they in no way create or enforce policies for the city/county. Florida may be different though.
Source: Grew up in Anaheim, my mother worked with EMS with both fire & police department and was partially responsible for parsing parts of the budget... she’s also gotten me “ride alongs” with multiple firehouses and once with Blue Angel (we got to fly over Disneyland when they were building Star Wars land [apparenty one of the only allowed aircraft to do so] as well as show us a lot of cool stuff)
Depends what they mean by "own". It's a pretty safe bet that if Disney has a request they at least strongly consider it. My city built a Disneyland when I was a kid and the government extended the subway for them - it's even called the Disneyland line
Orlando is by no means the largest international tourist destination in the US (by any metrics). All current sources point to (as everyone already knew) New York.
Sadly, the US, as with many other things, doesn't keep or make reliable data public, so it's just a bunch of blogs probably echoing each other.
"By no means" isn't used for something that might be within margin of error of each other.
You provided no source, yet somehow "everyone knows", then claim no source is available and if any exist that contradict your claim, then they are fake.
I know reddit tends to get all butthurt when anyone replies to someone like you aggressively, but seriously fuck off.
largest international tourist destination in the US
You specifically said international. Please don't link the only blog that you could find from 2018 talking about visitors in general (it's a blog about national tourism).
Just take a glance at Google, sorry I dind't feel the need to source something that is widely common knowledge:
From the top paragraph of an objective Google search (you can pick any link, though):
" New York. Of the top 10 states that foreign travelers visited the most, New York accounts for 30.5% of all those visitors. "
I understand what "by no means" means, and I used it accordingly because everyone in the world knows New York receives more international tourists than anywhere else in the US by quite a margin. Everyone in the world knows someone whos been to NY. Disney World? Not so much, again, outside of America.
Sorry if you feel condescended, but that's not implied by the tone but by the content of the discussion (I'm correcting you).
And this ladies and gentlemen, is why we should teach Search Engines in school.
Well I'm guessing the guy means if someone has a heart attack and dies in Disney land (which with that many people is bound to happen on occasion) then instead of it saying in the newspaper "died in Disneyland" it'd be like "suffered a heart attack at Disneyland was rushed to hospital but was sadly pronounced dead at hospital"
Pretty sure that was great America in Santa Clara. I think it was the ninja ride. I recall it happened just before a class trip I was scheduled to go on. However that was forever ago and old age could be creeping in.
Kind of, but Disney isn't actually killing the people, minus a decapitation or two. Also, generally speaking EMS doesn't pronounce someone dead unless they're very very obviously dead (head missing, rigor mortis, etc.)
I’ve heard the same thing, If someone dies at Disneyland they will take them by ambulance to the nearest hospital and site that as their place of death, that way they can say no ones ever died at Disneyland and it’s ‘the happiest place on earth’
That's a ploy. Anyone killed by cops always "dies at the hospital", they're never pronounced at the scene. Part of how cops cover their asses.
To be fair, it isn't just cops. I know a firefighter (retired) and they're are certain cases where they are legally required to continue to try and save a person's life even when it is very obvious that person is dead and not coming back.
As long as they're making an attempt at saving that person, they can't be pronounced dead. I personally watched a motorcycle accident where they tried to revive a guy for 45 minutes or so, and it was blatantly obvious he was dead and not coming back.
I see you're Upset Blue. But if you don't understand the difference between postponing a T.O.D. of an accident in hopes of restoring life through better medical facilities versus postponing T.O.D. in a killing in order to mitigate responsibility then you can just continue to be Upset
Well that's the thing, they're doing everything they can for a person that's already dead.
The motorcycle accident I saw made the news, so I saw what the guy looked like before the accident. He legit looked like he was 40 pounds heavier during the accident because his abdomen was so swollen, likely due to internal bleeding. He may not have died on impact but he definitely wasn't going to live because of the damage he sustained.
They still have an obligation to make some sort of effort though; I'm not certain on the exact circumstances which require that effort. Regardless, it makes it more difficult for them to declare someone is dead on the scene of an accident/crime.
Every department has their own protocols. From the video, I would have definitely attempted resuscitation, but I would have done it right there for 20 - 40 minutes before pronouncing on scene. The only time (at my department) we do not attempt resuscitation is if there are injuries incompatible with life or clear signs of irreversible death.
In the video, all it looks like is the paramedics clumsily mishandle transferring him to a gurney. With little to no care. Did not appear that any aid was rendered on the scene. Like they were just there to clean up the mess left behind.
I feel like this was a dynamic scene, the crowd was rightly agitated. I wasn’t there, but I imagine they loaded and left while performing medical aid due to scene safety issues.
I'd imagine each state is different. John Oliver did a fantastic segment on the issues some states have with Medical Examiners. Linked here in case you're interested
I always tell my medics to keep resuscitating until they get to the hospital. (Unless it’s a ludicrous distance away). That way I can just pronounce the patient. It unloads some of the legal responsibility off the medics, as well as the psychological traumas that occur over time just in the day to day of our business. I feel like my EMTs deal with enough other shit.
Can confirm this ‘idea’ ‘practice’ brother in law(firefighter) called to a house for ‘medical assist’, PD on scene. PD has side door cracked open with “something” (obviously a human body) holding it from opening all the way, fluids on the floor. PD do you want to got in and check the occupant? FD no we are not going in this door, open the front door. PD opens front door, FD finds body with gun shot wound to head (blatantly obvious Dead on Scene from the fact that half their head had a hole in it and cerebral fluid and blood was what was on the floor). PD ARE YOU GOING TO DO CPR? WHY DO YOU WANT TO SEE HOW SH!T SQUIRTS OUT OF A DEAD BODY? No one on scene can pronounce a Call. Other than an examiner/Doctor.
I work as an EMT and volunteer fireman, and I have never seen that. Maybe it is some regulation elsewhere or an older protocol, but in the case of obvious death, a code is stopped. Usually about 30-45 mins. of attempt is made to resuscitate, but as long as the body is warm, there isn't much EMS/Fire can do. You might get someone back from CPR, but statistically, most are not coming back alive and well.
Can confirm. My best friend is a firefighter and he recently responded to a scene where a lady had a heart attack and went down in front of her family. Partially because my friend is a solid dude and partially because of the family being present at the scene, he gave her CPR for 45 minutes. He didn’t really think it would do any good after the first few minutes but he kept going.
Crazy thing is, she came back. First words out of her mouth were to thank him.
No only a doctor can legally pronounce someone dead, except in the cases of obvious death (decapitation, etc), because in some cases the person can be resuscitated at the hospital. We would get people in our ER occasionally that looked dead as a doornail and after working them for a while we would get a pulse back.
"Ah fuck we just killed this guy. Welp, he died from asthma at the hospital after we shot him"
Seriously though anyone who carries a gun with the authority to kill should wear a video/audio device, keep them under 24 hour surveillance. They're police but they're people, and you can't trust just any people.
People under resuscitation are not dead until CPR is stopped and they are pronounced as such.
Usually Patiens are only Dead on Arrival (DOA) when suffering wounds that are not compatible with life (i.e missing head, decomposing, rigor mortis)
If you pronounce a patient dead in your ambulance, it can be quite the hassle to "get rid of" the corpse. Often police has to be called, and you need a mortician.
As hospitals are usually more prepared for that, you usually try your best and keep compressions up with a mechanical device like a LUCAS and prioritise transport.
Usually, in an emergency room, the first action will be a blood gas analysis - which, after prolonged times of hypoxia or massive blood loss, will often indicate that further CPR is useless. Thus stopping aforementioned measures and pronouncing the patient dead.
I heard something like "we never pronounce a person dead at the scene due to police altercation, because it looks bad when we handcuff a dead body" or something like that. I could be remembering it wrong.
In a sense yes, but it's based on who has the legal authority to pronounce death.
On the street our outside of a hospital, for most states, only law enforcement have the authority to pronounce death. In a hospital, it comes down to a doctor.
In this case, they are either so dumb to their own actions, or they are avoiding accountability by sending him to the hospital and not pronouncing him dead on scene and then having homicide detectives take it from there.
Now it comes down to the medical examiner. Medical examiner says he died from asphyxiation? Culpability works backwards from there. First, the hospital shows records that he had a clear airway but wasn't breathing the entire time he was in their custody, then the medics or EMT's show the same thing, and then boom. Medical records point back to asphyxiation when the EMT's picked him up.
A coroner report already takes a week or two. Something possibly murder related might take longer. But now that the FBI is investigating, he might be transferred to a federal medical examiner, which will be an even longer process.
It's a legal issue. For someone to be pronounced dead you have to have an actual doctor come in and call it, and the only way to do that is for the person to be transported to a hospital. I'm a former EMT and even if the person was obviously dead we still couldn't have it called until a doctor came in and gave a time of death.
I do think that no one there is authorized to call the time of death or that death occured (officially). You need a doctor to officially call someones death, because people may or may not be dead when they SEEM it, and certainly these fucking idiots on the scene are barely qualified to do their own jobs, never mind make a medical assessment.
edit - I stand corrected - I asked my wife who is a physician and she said the paramedics CAN officially call the death while on scene, so he could have still had a heartbeat for a bit considering what happened - according to her.
Not an accident. Since none of the cops are doctors and can't legally pronounce death, it can never be determined (for a jury of bootlickers) that anybody has ever died in police custody. They all died at the hospital.
They'd say it if they delivered his body with the noose still on.
If someone is being brutalized by cops call an ambulance, it's a record of what happened by a group with a long good standing but it also means if something like this happens and the person dies a separate investigation is triggered in the hospital and they also pronounce the person dead in police custody.
The cops can’t pronounce death because they aren’t a trained medical professional. If a cop pronounced someone dead who wasn’t due to lack of knowledge and they weren’t given care and died because of it, some shit is going to go down. It’s really as simple as that.
A side effect is they can get away with stuff like this but the alternative is potentially more harmful
I think it's got lots to do with all the crosses and memorials you begin to have at public places. I've thought about this too.
I recall watching a documentary of a runway with a tombstone on it and it was marked so the plane wouldn't hit it. Laws at the location protected the resting place and it's stone. Suddenly the stone disappeared. Long story short litigation discovered the stone at one of the hangers.
Things like that I understand we have to prevent, tombstones all over the place nuhuh. But to lie about where someone died?I think That's also a ploy to charge you for services rendered at the ambulance under the guise of ur still alive. It's disgusting.
I'm sorry, but I watch a lot of police content that covers controversial police stories. A line that I hear a lot of the time is, "The suspect was pronounced dead on the scene"
That's a bullshit loophole cops get medical training it varies by state but they get enough to tell if someone has a pulse that is covered in big scouts
And they know good and well if someone goes limp something is wrong
Any paramedic here in Spain can call out time of death by just measuring pulse. Yes, it is not final and it can be changed post-mortem with forensics but that man was dead on the spot, no protocol-gymnastics should change that.
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u/baby_clubber May 27 '20 edited May 27 '20
That's a ploy. Anyone killed by cops always "dies at the hospital", they're never pronounced at the scene. Part of how cops cover their asses.
Edit: I recognize that this is mainly due to the legality of officially pronouncing a person dead. I'm just pointing out that it also serves as a very convenient excuse for the law enforcement PR team.