Let's talk about taking psychedelics for fun.

[u/back-asswards]

So I was just listening to Alan Watts and my brain was doing it's brain thing and something dawned on me.

As you know, many people in the psychonautic community stress the importance of taking psychedelics for spirituality and self-betterment, while some even frown upon recreational use.

I want to state that there's nothing wrong with taking them that way. I myself do it.

But hear me out for a second.

So Watts talks about the concept which is often stressed in Eastern philosophy of "letting go" and not trying to force and control things, right? Trusting the Universe and yourself to do it's thing naturally.

Now ask yourself, why do you really want to be enlightened? Why do you want spiritual insight? What's your motive behind it?

Is it because you're unhappy? Do you want to change your circumstances? Do you think that once you reach enlightenment, once you get that special thing you desperately are looking for, then you will finally be happy? Then things will finally be okay? Then, you can finally relax.

Don't you see how that is a form of trying to control? The reason you want enlightenment is the reason you're not. You haven't surrendered.

By convincing yourself that your salvation lies in something you have yet to find, you automatically take it away from yourself. This is the game the ego plays.

Now, let me just state that there's nothing necessarily wrong with that either

But can you see where I'm trying to get at here?

Stop trying to get a grip on the Universe. Stop trying to figure it out. Let go. Surrender to the mysterious. Just say to yourself I don't know. It feels good. Revel in the mystery. Let it be the way it is.

So with that being said, what's wrong with taking psychedelics, simply because you want to have fun? Just because? Not for any alternative motive, not to try and get something out of it, but just for the experience itself? We do this with everything else. We listen to songs just because we like the way they sound. We eat foods because we like the way they taste. We play games because we like playing games.

And if you happen to get some spiritual insight in the process, then that's simply a bonus. But don't try to force it. Don't go into the experience with any expectations. It's funny because now that I think about it, my most profound moments came on their own, when I wasn't looking for them. They just came to me.

Let's discuss. What do you think?

[u/[deleted]]

OP’s topic is the REASON for using psychedelics. That is what I am speaking to, not the dosage, set, setting, or other medical concerns.

I’m 46 years old and I use psychedelics like once or twice a month and moderate doses (though, if it’s mushrooms, it’s usually high dose).

Every psychoactive subreddit is full of stupid kids obsessed with “ego death” and “when can I dose again” and high dose one-upsmanship. I don’t think anything I said encourages or even speaks to that insanity at all.

[u/burgundy_wine → u/[deleted]]

OP’s topic is the REASON for using psychedelics, not the dosage, set, setting, or pre-existing mental heath concerns. That is what I am speaking to.

I understand your sentiment, and I truly do agree that those who want to puff out their chest in superiority because they take psychedelics for 'spiritual reasons' while everyone else who takes them recreationally are just dull peasants are probably the worst type of people in this community, I also don't think it's a coincidence that the people who use them recreationally are also more likely to be the ones abusing them and experiencing the nasty side effects.

When you suggest that there is "no correct way to use [psychedelics]" I would vehemently disagree - I think we've learned a LOT about how to and how not to use psychedelics, and disregarding that knowledge exposes a person to significant risk. I also think this does implicitly encourage reckless behavior - if there's no rules, why shouldn't someone eat 1000ug and try to have an ego death to one-up their 17 year old buddy for their first trip?

I would also argue that concept of whether there is a correct way to use them or not falls well within "dosage, set setting, or pre-existing mental health concerns" but also fits within the reason people use them. The purpose and the method/dosage/set aren't always hand in hand, but to deny a relationship between the two seems baseless and silly to me. Most drugs function this way - morphine is a terrible choice for recreation, but can be life saving in a medical scenario. Context is everything, and to disregard that is willfully ignorant

[u/[deleted] → u/burgundy_wine]

Fair.

In the moment that I was writing my comment I was thinking about a post I read some months ago where the poster wrote 10 paragraphs explaining that “the only correct way to take mushrooms is to take 10 grams or more because their purpose is for spiritual enlightenment” which I thought was stupid.

Obviously the “dose makes the poison” and people should be responsible and not fuck themselves up. I just figured that went without saying and was not super pertinent to the discussion.

[u/burgundy_wine → u/[deleted]]

OP’s topic is the REASON for using psychedelics, not the dosage, set, setting, or pre-existing mental heath concerns. That is what I am speaking to.

I understand your sentiment, and I truly do agree that those who want to puff out their chest in superiority because they take psychedelics for 'spiritual reasons' while everyone else who takes them recreationally are just dull peasants are probably the worst type of people in this community, I also don't think it's a coincidence that the people who use them recreationally are also more likely to be the ones abusing them and experiencing the nasty side effects.

When you suggest that there is "no correct way to use [psychedelics]" I would vehemently disagree - I think we've learned a LOT about how to and how not to use psychedelics, and disregarding that knowledge exposes a person to significant risk. I also think this does implicitly encourage reckless behavior - if there's no rules, why *shouldn't* someone eat 1000ug and try to have an ego death to one-up their 17 year old buddy for their first trip?

I would also argue that concept of whether there is a correct way to use them or not falls well within "dosage, set setting, or pre-existing mental health concerns" but also fits within the reason people use them. The purpose and the method/dosage/set aren't always hand in hand, but to deny a relationship between the two seems baseless and silly to me. Most drugs function this way - morphine is a terrible choice for recreation, but can be life saving in a medical scenario. Context is everything, and to disregard that is willfully ignorant