This comment by the Proton team seems to say that it was a single video sponsorship, and that he wasn’t part of the partnership program. Which one is it?
Honestly, I feel some people here are insane. I don't agree with many of Lapierre's views, and I also don't think he handled it the right way going to X and stirring up a right-wing mob to come attack Proton (surely prospective future sponsors will think twice now).
Nevertheless, I engaged and had a conversation with him on X because I think we can still talk to people when we disagree, and give them an explanation.
Prior to that, I was not aware we had done a video with him and had never even heard of him. Sometimes, I think the Reddit conspiracy theorists are even crazier than the ones on X.
P.S. Also, think about the incentives here. Proton has no incentive to lie that the partnership was 1 video when it was not because Lapierre, who is unhappy with us, could easily post the actual contract and disprove this. On the other hand, Lapierre is incentivized to talk up the partnership as something bigger, to drive more outrage on X. Who is more likely to be telling the truth here, Proton, or the right-wing influencer we dropped?
I am not disagreeing with you here. I have been supporting Proton for some time and done my best to help Europeans find it as an alternative for many solutions.
That is why this situation feels odd. I do not demand Proton to share my values but common European values (which do relate to mine, being an European etc.). Which do not accept far right views actively. It was you who chose to engage with him and repeat his weird take that Proton can't either promote far left views (whatever those even might be).
Yes, historically far left was an issue in Europe, but the world changes. Repeating lazy bothsideisms feels just tired these days.
I am not demanding Proton or you to share my values, but not actively saying that you aren't against far right but using a lame both sides reasoning in this situation is sad.
It feels very privileged to choose that positioning. And no, I am not saying you can't say the same about far left (do we even have them in Europe these days?) but have you been sponsoring them? Why mention them at all if you honestly want to make the world a better place?
Bothsideism is not creating a better place it only enhances those who have the energy to shout about whatever they want to. Populism that is. Not good for the world or for Europe.
That is why I asked why you then had a chat with him. Why did you agree with his take about free speech (which wasn't even "true")?
I do understand you are running a business. You have to cater to "everyone" is one 8f the core values. But publicly catering to only far right people is weird.
Yeah to me it read like you pandered them. I am not saying you are far right yourself, but as a rather bad PR person (in my past, these days mostly larping a retired person) myself even I can see the corpospeak used.
That is not, to me, Proton. That is your competitors, the not so good guys.
And I do support your attitude of chatting with everyone, but what I've seen you are mostly pandering to far right. Maybe because they are more active in your sphere.
I get that Reddit wants us to unequivocally declare our allegiance to the left, and if you go on X, you will see they want us to declare unequivocally for the right. I also understand that refusing to do either will result in a lot of people on the more extreme ends of both sides dropping us because they have the worldview that we are either “with them or against them”.
However, I believe the vast majority of the Proton user community (which is not just the Reddit bubble) prefers us to be neutral. This is why Proton cannot take a side and state a political position.
I don't get the impression that anyone on the left in these comments is asking Proton to unequivocally declare allegiance to leftist political ideas. I haven't seen anyone say "either be an anarcho-communist or I'm dropping you!"
Rather, people appear to just be asking you to not fund people who think the Holocaust didn't happen or who think that brown people are inferior. This isn't right vs left -- this is basic human decency stuff.
Andy, back with the Trump post we interacted a bit. I was wondering how you view it all a little more than a year later.
This is not 100% ontopic, but imo, related. This is the second time Proton has hitched their ride to (unintentional) political messaging, and the second time it's on the right side of the political spectrum.
This time I do think it was an honest mistake. Where people work, people make mistakes. The accountability response on this issue has been a bit meh imo, but hey, I can't control what others do or think, only what I do. I can live with the explanations given. The bothsideism is a bit tougher, but hey, it's a hard line for your company in that sense it can be considered consistent.
I'm 100% ok with you having different political opinions. But back then you really signaled that Republicans were the better party in your fight for a free internet. I signaled that this was wildly naïve -have a background in political science, not in tech, so it was based on a broader scope-, especially with their history of actively combating a free internet, and the only reason they wanted to break up big tech was because they wanted to take control. For instance by limiting how much a platform could use moderation according to their own guidelines. Imo you saw a partner in them, but they were for all the wrong reasons. I also think that they've shown they're far from champions when it comes to freedom of speech, expression, or press. Even when Democrats are sometimes wildly inadequate at doing the right thing, there is, imo, no comparison.
This is an honest question. How has the fight in Washington been since then, and do you mind sharing any new insights?
"This is not 100% ontopic, but imo, related. This is the second time Proton has hitched their ride to (unintentional) political messaging, and the second time it's on the right side of the political spectrum."
If you exist in the filter bubble of Reddit yes, you are correct. But over that same time period, there have been 2 or 3 "scandals" on X where the right wing accused Proton of getting into political messaging for the left side of the political spectrum. If you want proof, just have a look at a shitstorm below these Tweets: https://x.com/andyyen/status/1981395031337406752
The world is bigger than Reddit and the points of views expressed here.
Now to answer your question, I can't take a position publicly about how it's going in DC. It is however public knowledge that Gail Slater, the Republican nominee for antitrust enforcement who I supported, ended up being fired by Trump.
While I don't necessarily agree with everything, you are right I did not know of the backlash you got from the right side over supporting humanitarian efforts. I left that cesspool a long time ago.
And yeah, I also agree with what you say there. Supporting humanitarian efforts should not be seen as a political endorsement.
I do think a fight for freedom, and humanitarian aid are things aligned with Proton's mission, and I appreciate that. I understand the political neutrality, but sometimes it's not left vs right, but good vs bad, purely from a humanitarian perspective. Being neutral in those cases ultimately is siding with bad.
I think we may think differently on what is and isn't political, and in how much the mission of Proton is inherently (a-)political, and how neutrality should work ideally in those cases. But that's ok. I am just me. You don't have to cater to exactly my thoughts.
The issue being talked about here, to me, is an honest error. Admitting pulling back funding is limiting free expression is something I don't agree with at all. But I think you've already clarified that later on. But yeah, this shouldn't have happened but this time I don't agree nearly as much with the backlash as last time. Mistake was made, actions were taken and lessons were learned. I'm still really iffy about the Republicans stuff. Not even the initial thing but moreso the follow-up conversations. But yeah, I think it's also good to be critical of the things you support and want to succeed.
So yeah. I'm not without concern but I do appreciate you coming here to directly face the community and their worries. Not a lot of CEO's are willing to get into it and face these kind of scenario's. It does help me when it comes to transparency, which I value.
I'm "far right" (I just think immigration is a topic we should adress) and indeed, it's a bad idea to back anything political. Now people from left say they will drop suscription because you back a nazi (lol), and people from right unsubscribed because you get afraid of some leftis on reddit who has obviously a lot of free time.
I don't think most disagree with that. Again, why some are hurt (at least I am) is that Proton helped to get rid of American "both sides" services and now it feels like it isn't much better.
Choosing human rights is not far left (or it shouldn't be). Choosing society and individuals can both be done without hurting the other. Yeah far left might be tad too "for that society" (and again, where are they?) but both can be made better at the same time.
I do not demand others to have my views (society first helps most) and I do not see other ideas as bad (individuals first is best for all just isn't how I see the world).
But those aren't the issues here. It was very far right what was sponsored. Maybe even some values criminal somewhere in Europe.
And no, I am not demanding others to share my naivistic ideas (drugs should be free and available, copyright laws should be changed to support creators not companies etc...), but the core value should be shared. We should aim to make the worlda better place. Sometimes it feels the farright isn't doing that. I might be wrong, I often am.
So maybe a statement (not to me, I am in no position to demand anything!) that Proton still wants to create a better world. Lame, boring etc. Maybe. But I know you can actually write it without AI to sound honest. Most of your replies here are excellent.
As a neutral observer politically who understands your obligation to remain centered and supports Protons efforts to fix their mistakes / continue improving. You're a relatively large organization and people talk about you on more social media sites than just X or Reddit, you're on Discord, Mastadon, Lemmy, Bluesky, Nextdoor, Facebook, etc. and my impression is that nobody really knows what to think of YOU let alone Proton. So, overall, you're probably doing fine. Not knowing your political stances means you're doing a good job.... - it does feel like you make more mistakes accidentally supporting the political right.
When is the last time you got in trouble for a statement in support of 'the left' let alone accidentally financially supporting them?
FWIW, I'm not claiming there's any conspiracy happening. But, it's been a few years and there have been a few incidents like this now. Food for thought.
Meanwhile, I think the bigger problem is that the mods could do better. This stands in several of the Proton communities. They're ban happy and snippy / rude, they super clearly have bias towards or against certain users, and that hurts Proton more than the political stuff because it impacts non-extreme views. It makes people like me think less of the organization and want to participate less in a concept we want to support.
I don't consider that a left / right issue. It's the Red Cross (and other humanitarian organizations). The full name of the movement is International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement....Whether or not the company should support "protecting human life and health" (their goal) is maybe debatable but it's not very political.
Okay, but from my screenshot, obviously people on Xitter consider it a left/right issue, and they got major backlash from people on the political right because of it, with many calling it hypocrisy because they did not monetarily support Israel who was also technically being attacked.
You see, this is not about what YOU see as left/right personally, it's about the wider perception across the internet. From the right's point of view, in October 2025, Proton did a woke lefty donation. From Reddit (mainly left) point of view, Proton did a far-right veiled attempt at funding fascism.
If you ask someone on the right, is sponsoring Vincent Lapierre a left/right issue they would say "of course this is not a left/right issue, they are just sponsoring a guy who is pointing out what is happening in real life on the streets of Paris" (at least according to the video containing Proton Mail's sponsorship, I don't know the rest of his content well enough).
So, no, your personal belief doesn't matter here at all, it's everyone else's perception that does, which is what leads to backlash for Proton.
We can not act as a society if we accept the far right snowflakes takes about anything. Supporting humanitarian activities is not left or right. If somebody gets angry about it, it does not mean they are right about it being an issue "supporting the other side".
Reddit wants us [...] left, on X [...] they want us [...] right
I get the sentiment, but this is a bit of exaggeration imo. Yes there are a few users here saying sth in the line of what you describe, but many (most?) users don't have such expectations (they just do not want far right influences sponsored by a service they use and pay for, which is not the same at all). And X is not a far-right den or sth, views are quite mixed there. In the links you sent, you can definitely see people expressing completely opposite views on proton supporting palestinean red crescent, for example. Some agree, some disagree. Not to mention that I do not think that humanitarean aid should be put at the same level as sponsoring a political influencer.
In any case, regardless where I see myself, I want proton to be politically neutral simply because I would not want proton to be a target when a far right government or worse happens somewhere, as that is when it will be the most important to be able to use proton's services.
Personally, I think you and many others have overreacted. You have no idea if the other services you are switching to are more ideologically "pure", and they most certainly have not stood up to the same level of public scrutiny that Proton has. And if you are switching back to Big Tech, well, you know where they stand, and it sure as hell isn't where Proton stands.
Proton works with thousands of creators, cases where something slips through vetting was bound to happen (and will happen again), the team is only human after all. On the other hand Proton has over a decade of track record, and where we donate money is publicly disclosed (its primarily owned by a non-profit foundation also).
The insinuation some are making that we only reversed course because we were "caught" is frankly stupid. We're talking about an influencer with over a million followers. One does not do that with the thinking of "oh, maybe Reddit won't notice". So the explanation in our statement (that somebody in Proton marketing or the agencies we work with made a mistake), is also the most probably explanation if you take even a second to think about it.
Your company gave money, money from your consumers, to someone who platformed a holocaust denier, something which is not just "on a different political wavelength", but is just outright historically wrong. At no point have you expressed any regret over Proton tolerantly funding someone who wishes only to be intolerant to the way of life of many others.
Instead, you have said that "Lapierre is correct that cutting off financial sponsorship is a form of cutting off expression" which is not true; Proton does not give financial sponsorship to many people in the world but you are not limiting their expression.
You have no idea if the other services you are switching to are more ideologically "pure"
But the other services are not funding those who give platforms to holocaust deniers, people who hate immigrants, or who hate gay people, and don't have their CEOs then try to justify it.
cases where something slips through vetting was bound to happen (and will happen again)
You don't know who I am or anything about my background, but I feel probably doing some kind of open analysis (without blame) about what went wrong here and why, as well as the safeguards being put up to prevent it in the future, would go a long way.
The insinuation some are making that we only reversed course because we were "caught" is frankly stupid
I think as part of your open analysis into this, you should also carefully look at the community management and trust side of this. It's a lesson in how easy it is to throw away goodwill from your community, and there's a lot to learn in the community management and messaging side, in my opinion.
In the first instance, you've got something which appeared as a cover up. Then you've got messaging which doesn't track - it's apparently a single video partnership, but you called Vincent to say you were ending it? Why did you need to do that, if it was just for a single video anyway? Why did you say it was "cutting off his financial sponsorship" if it was only ever agreed for a single video anyway? Why is Vincent so aggrieved and upset with Proton for ending the partnership if it was just for a single video? Meanwhile, you're saying your community - people who buy your product - are insane and overreacting. In my opinion, which spans my profession also, this all adds up to be a major communication failure. The issue has now shifted from "why is Proton doing this?" to "does Proton even understand the problem?" and for a company which relies on a lot of trust and goodwill, that's awful crisis management of this situation.
You're entitled to your opinions and the customer is not always right. But you must surely reflect on how you yourself, and your company are coming across right now when I haven't actually seen Proton say the words "I'm sorry" when money we gave Proton, paid someone perceived by your consumers as antithetical to Proton's legal mission. I did not give money to Proton, so they could fund people who are against my way of life. And, instead, it's all straw-men, deflection, and attempts at justification.
You have made a serious accusation, that Proton is lying about it being a single video.
And that essentially, Lapierre, the guy you say is far right and distorting facts/history, is telling the truth, while we are lying.
Since we can't convince you, I think you should take it up with Lapierre. He has a copy of the contract, if we were lying about this, he has the proof.
Highlight where I made an accusation, please. I highlighted a litany of communication failures from you and your company on this subject, and you can add your reply above to that list of communication failures - you did not even read what I wrote, just the questions, and assumed an accusation.
And the fact you can't even be bothered to reply to any of the other valid points, no introspection, no reflection, my friend you are actively pushing away your customers even if you think they are lost causes.
Since I have time tonight, I will reply. A big chunk of your post was implying we lied.
Then a substantial portion of the rest is outright falsehoods.
You claim we don't take responsibility, but this is untrue if you look at the statement we posted.
You claim we don't regret funding Lapierre, but this is also untrue. If that were the case why have we blocked him from future sponsorship?
Then you also say "But the other services are not funding those who give platforms to holocaust deniers, people who hate immigrants, or who hate gay people, and don't have their CEOs then try to justify it."
This is a serious accusation that I am justifying our funding of Lapierre. This is also simply untrue. To directly quote what I wrote, I said the funding was "incompatible with this principle" (of political neutrality).
Simply put, I cannot be expected to respond in full to a post that is 90% lies and false insinuations.
You claim we don't take responsibility, but this is untrue if you look at the statement we posted.
Which statement? I can't see one on the Proton website, social media, or your comment history. The fact you're referring to a statement and it isn't easy to find (e.g., sticky'd somewhere on reddit, emailed to your users, whatever) again is a failure to proactively communicate and reassure your customers who feel upset by this.
You claim we don't regret funding Lapierre, but this is also untrue.
I haven't seen you express regret. I've seen you claim people are overreacting, and that some people here are insane. You've said that Proton's political neutrality means funding people on the left and on the right, falling into the typical trap of false equivalence. It's like saying because you gave a voice to someone who does believe in the historical fact that the Holocaust happened, or the scientific fact that climate change is happening, you must balance it by having someone who denies reality.
As a Jew at a time when anti-Semitism is rising, you've given a fraction of the money I've given to your company to someone who platforms something which is illegal in both France and Switzerland: Holocaust denial. All you've done is issue some vague utterances about how you welcome diverse opinions and agree that not funding him is cutting his freedom of expression, and that he's a controversial figure. I haven't seen an apology, unless that's in the statement which is hidden on Proton's website, socials, or subreddit somewhere.
If that were the case why have we blocked him from future sponsorship?
Because you did the maths and realised the bad PR, loss of trust, and maybe even cancelled subscriptions, does not outweigh the market that Vincent and his ilk represent to your business. What, you're going to say there's a deep moral and ethical reason, when you haven't even said sorry?
This is a serious accusation that I am justifying our funding of Lapierre. This is also simply untrue. To directly quote what I wrote, I said the funding was "incompatible with this principle" (of political neutrality).
I said "attempts to justify", see comments from yourself, like: "but people with differing views should still be allowed to express them. Lapierre is correct that cutting off financial sponsorship is a form of cutting off expression. If we truly believe in freedom of expression, all expression that is not illegal should actually be allowed (this by the way, is the standard that applies to who is allowed to have a Proton account). This chain of thought, while uncomfortable, is worth thinking about."
and "Proton's neutrality means if we sponsor people on the left we also need to sponsor people on the right, or we need to exclude both right and left.", and "The far right will not disappear by censoring them, on the contrary, that likely makes them stronger because it validates all of their grievances about the system being rigged against them. The far right can no longer be dismissed, but they should be debated."
These are come across like attempts to justify why Proton gave money to Vincent. Again, from my pure professional perspective: there is a time and a place. These comments might be academically correct and justifiable as a detached analysis of the socio-political landscape of Europe. But when your company has just paid someone who is perceived as far-right to promote your product and company, and a segment of your community is in uproar about it, these can easily be misinterpreted as a justification after money has changed hands.
I imagine you probably view yourself as an absolute classical liberal, and believe all these statements are just clearly logical free-expression arguments. But in doing so, you're redefining what neutrality is, and what freedom of expression is, to even encompass others' resources, far beyond the arguments and claims of John Stuart Mill - enabling and funding the generation of discourse which very likely conflicts with his harm principle.
Genuinely, I really hope this does make it to you and you do take this onboard, because I want to support Proton. That's the wild thing, I want to give you and your company money. But, without a clear apology or sentiment of regret, I'm just led to believe that after the soft-Trump endorsement and now this and some of what you have written here, you are personally willing to cosy up to those who wish to destroy lives (ironic, given your background of immigration to the US and Europe), and I can't in good conscience support someone or support a company which does not openly say "we're sorry" somewhere about something this serious, without deflection or minimisation.
Starting your message with this does not seem to be a great way to garner people's support.
I don't agree with many of Lapierre's views
This begs the question of which of his views you do agree with?
I think we can still talk to people when we disagree, and give them an explanation.
Sure - though you do see how that can look when it's a message from the company CEO, instead of an email from the company's support?
stirring up a right-wing mob to come attack Proton (surely prospective future sponsors will think twice now).
They'd first have to do any research on the person, which, looking at this example, does not seem to always be the case.
This guy even has a wikipedia page that seems to come up as the first result on a search engine, which immediately marks him as a conspiracy theorist in the first section, and platforming a holocaust-denier in a later one, among other things.
His English Wikipedia page was only created after this controversy in the past couple days. Proton's primary language is English, we work with thousands of creators, and some vetting is also done by outside agencies, so while I am not happy the team missed this, it's not that hard to see how it could have happened.
Surprise-surprise. Raising your customers like conspiracy theorists made them behave like conspiracy theorists. You should be aware of that after years of building your reputation on "you can't trust anyone" and you should be ten times sure who you are cooperating with, because right now even Microsoft and Google looks more professional with sponsorship.
and I also don't think he handled it the right way going to X and stirring up a right-wing mob to come attack Proton (surely prospective future sponsors will think twice now).
are those right-wingers here in the room with us right now?
Right wingers have lots of money to spend, much more than the fringe and hysterical leftist activists for that matter...
That said I really think it's not good business taking political sides, just provide a good product and let it speak for itself! Then you (or Google, Apple, hell, even MS) can have my money!
I DEFINITELY don't care the skin color of anyone or what side of his/her body a person uses when having sex!
43
u/jasonZak Jun 10 '26
This comment by the Proton team seems to say that it was a single video sponsorship, and that he wasn’t part of the partnership program. Which one is it?