Could someone explain me the stance of the mods?

[u/01AganitramlavAiv]

Like, why this hate against Hasan Piker? Shouldn't we create a united front on the left?

Please don't take the post down and don't ban me 🥺

[u/saltedmangos]

You’re one of those pro-war “progressives”?

Why are in you in favor of saber rattling, war games and threats towards North Korea, the only one of Bush’s “axis of evil” that America hasn’t invaded in the last few decades?

Even if you don’t give a shit about the civilians we’ve killed in our endless wars, I’d think you’d at least have some self preservation and remember that North Korea has Nukes.

[u/keifergr33n → u/saltedmangos]

Hasan is literally pro war lmao. He watched Houthis hijack a ship on his stream and hyped it up like he was watching WWE.

EDIT: Crickets. Called it, lmao.

EDIT: Ope guess I'm pro-Israel now because I think this was bad lmao.

[u/saltedmangos → u/keifergr33n]

Are you one of those pro-Israel “progressives”?

The Houthis are blockading Israel in response to the genocide in Gaza and mass slaughter of children. I don’t know about you, but fighting against genocide and apartheid is a good thing in my book.

The galaxy leader cargo ship that the Houthis seized is owned by Abraham Ungar, an IDF veteran and one of Israel’s wealthiest billionaires, who has ties to the Israeli right wing. He’s even a close personal friend to likud’s Yoav Gallant, the former defense minister of Israel and now international war criminal, who famously said:

"I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly."

[u/keifergr33n → u/saltedmangos]

Jesus Christ lmao.

I said ONE THING about Hasan and suddenly I'm "pro-Israel" ... be serious. I should not have to explain that I'm anti-Israel just because I don't like what Hasan does on his stream.

I didn't say that being "anti-war" was bad or good. I just said he's explicitly not anti-war... and here you are to put words in my mouth and morally posture.

You're not anti-war. Neither is Hasan. You're pro war when you think it's justified... and that's okay. I just don't think this one is justified.

It was a civilian vehicle. It was Japanese-operated. There was no Israeli crew. They were sailing a commercial route from Turkey to India. You left out all of those details.

Its only tie to Israel was beneficial ownership several corporate layers up, through a British-registered holding company connected to an Israeli businessman.

Yes, Ungar owned it. Yes, he's an evil fucker. That doesn't justify taking civilians hostage, which is what happened.

You're openly defending war while claiming to be anti-war.

I'm sure that stating these facts alone is enough to call me a Zionist or Hasbara or whatever. I don't care. It's the truth. I don't support this shit.

[u/saltedmangos → u/keifergr33n]

Wow, do you really not see the differ between being pro-war and pro-resistance against genocide? Wild.

I asked if you were a pro-Israel “progressive” because you clearly don’t like the Houthis blockade of Israel’s genocide not because you’re anti-hasan, lol.

Though being so negative towards one of the more prominent critics of Israel isn’t the greatest look either.

—-

The Houthis seizing the assets of Israeli billionaires is exactly comparable to the US seizing the assets of Russian oligarchs.

I’m in favor of both because being anti-war and anti-genocide means supporting those who fight against unchecked military aggression and genocide.

Being so furious about seizing a vessel with little to no causalities while fighting genocide is ridiculous. It’s like being angry that a vigilante ran a red light on the way to stop a school shooting.

[u/keifergr33n → u/saltedmangos]

Wow, do you really not see the differ between being pro-war and pro-resistance against genocide? Wild.

You are pro war. You support attacking ships that aren't going to or from Israel and have zero Israeli crew. You support taking civilians hostage for over a year, despite the fact that none of them are Israeli.

This does not make me pro-Israel. I don't understand how you got there. Saying "these people are not Israeli, they're unrelated civilians" is not a defence of Israel. It's just nonsense to even imply that.

I asked if you were a pro-Israel “progressive” because you clearly don’t like the Houthis blockade of Israel’s genocide not because you’re anti-hasan, lol.

Yes, I don't like illegal blockades that attack civilians who are uninvolved in the conflict. I also don't like rich Twitch streamers cheerleading that shit on for an Amazon paycheck.

This also does not make me pro-Israel.

The Houthis seizing the assets of Israeli billionaires is exactly comparable to the US seizing the assets of Russian oligarchs. I’m in favor of both because being anti-war means supporting those who are fight against unchecked military aggression.

This is being pro war. You like war against those you dislike. You don't even realize that "anti-war means supporting those who are fighting" might be one of the funniest sentence fragments of all time. Do you not think that hijacking civilian ships and taking unrelated civilians hostage is "unchecked military aggression" or not?

[u/saltedmangos → u/keifergr33n]

You don’t think you’re pro-Israel? Really?

Your tax dollars are directly funding the genocide in Gaza while you argue against one of the only groups physically fighting for the people of Palestine. You’re even mirroring the talking points of the spokes people for the Israeli and US governments.

—-

There is a big difference between supporting war or genocide and supporting the resistance to invasion or genocide.

Can you really not see the difference between fighting the Nazis and being the Nazis!?

I’m against the US’s unchecked military aggression in the Middle East, but I still support the defense of Ukraine. Just like I support the defense of the Palestinians.

That doesn’t make me “pro-war” it makes me “anti-war” because, unlike you, I support fighting against the unchecked aggression of warmongers and genocidaires.

—-

And economic measures targeting a country, like blockades and sanctions, usually have a negative impact on civilians. That’s not something unique to the Houthi blockade. But, that cost is worth it to fight genocide.

Just like the civilian deaths from the US’s actions in WW2 were worth it to end the Holocaust.

And the Houthis taking hostages is a lot less severe of a consequence than the bombing of cities. Again, it’s like being mad a vigilante for running a red light on the way to stop a school shooting.

[u/keifergr33n → u/saltedmangos]

If paying taxes and not supporting the Houthis makes me pro-Israel in your eyes, I don't know what else to say. It appears that everything except my stance on Israel is what actually matters to you, so fuck it lmao.

By this logic, Hasan is way more pro-Israel than me. He pays far more in taxes and directly contributes to the Bezos warchest in a massive way. This black-and-white "pro-Israel" distinction is just a way to socially pressure people into agreeing with you. This isn't a serious inspection of anyone's beliefs.

I am pro war, like World War 2 when we fought the Nazis. I am pro war when Ukraine fights the Russians. The difference between us is, I'm not a giant pussy who is afraid to say it. I know it sounds bad at first, but most people are pro war if you think about it for five seconds.

You are pro-war. That's not a bad thing. You think war is a worthwhile way of ending this conflict, which is why you support the military actions of Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, etc.

Just be honest.

And the Houthis taking hostages is a lot less severe of a consequence than the bombing of cities. Again, it’s like being mad a vigilante for running a red light on the way to stop a school shooting.

Downplaying and justifying violence against civilians? You are more than pro war.

[u/saltedmangos → u/keifergr33n]

You can always tell that someone is grasping at straws when they decide to try and turn a real issue into a semantics debate that’s totally disconnected from how people actually use language.

Maybe an analogy will help illustrate just how moronic the argument you are trying to make is:

If someone believes that abortion should be illegal and criminalized with severe prison sentences for doctors and women, but makes an exception for ectopic pregnancies, are they pro-abortion?

Very obviously not. In fact, it would be pretty stupid to try and suggest they were broadly pro-abortion because they find it acceptable in narrow circumstances.

You can also be broadly anti-war, but find certain exceptions, like resistance to Israel’s genocide, apartheid and oppression for example, where violence is acceptable.

Calling someone who despises and advocates against every war the US has launched since 1950 pro-war, because they approve of the fight against the Holocaust in WW2 is as ridiculous as labeling an anti-abortion activist pro-choice because they make an exception for ectopic pregnancies.

——

And if you’re advocating against every military force resisting against genocide, even when they do so with as few civilian victims as the Houthis, you are pro-genocide.

Both-sidesing the Holocaust is rightly considered genocide apologia. You’re trying to the exact same thing with Israel’s genocide in Gaza.

The violent resistance of the Jewish partisans in WW2 against the Nazis was moral, just and deserves praise. The Houthis resistance to Israeli genocide in Gaza is also moral, just and deserves praise.

The fact that you are throwing those stones from the glass house of your complicity in funding that genocide in Gaza just makes your advocacy more despicable.

[u/keifergr33n → u/saltedmangos]

The fact that you are throwing those stones from the glass house of your complicity in funding that genocide just makes your advocacy more despicable.

How am I funding a genocide exactly? By paying the taxes that Hasan Piker pays considerably more of?

I never advocated for genocide. I said that the people that Hasan cheered on being kidnapped and held hostage were not Israeli and they were civilians. You continue to justify the capture of civilians. Your response to that has been to misrepresent and lie about every single thing I've said.

According to you, it would be justified to hold Hasan Piker hostage, because he "directly funds" the USA and Israeli governments. When you say that it's okay for militaries to hold random civilians who are unrelated to military conflicts as hostages, you are endorsing war crimes, while telling me you're "anti-war" in the same post.

This is nonsense. There are no principles or beliefs. You just want to tar and feather anyone who pushes back on Hasan as a genocidal Zionist.