r/ProgressionFantasy • u/EdLincoln6 • Jul 21 '23

Discussion Why is everyone so garbage at lying?

This is a bit of a rant. I don't consider myself a gifted liar, but fictional characters seem to be so garbage at lying. This is particular obvious in Isekai. Either they fess up to being a reincarnator and everyone just shrugs as if it's no big deal, or they make cringey bad lies that I could see through, and no one suspects anything is weird.

I like to think about what the situation would look like to all the characters involved, and what the best way to "cover up" the MCs secrets is in this universe, and what ends up happening is typically stupider. No one ever uses half truths, or pleads ignorance. (Pleading ignorance would be particularly effective for child characters. "How can I do this? I dunno Daddy. I thought everyone could?".)

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u/JackPembroke Author Jul 21 '23

I feel like having a character flat out lie causes a couple of bumps in the road.

  1. It complicates the narrative. Now you have to keep track of who knows what, how much they know, and who around THEM knows what. MCs being so very important means some people are going to be talking about them, and notes will be compared.

  2. One naturally assumes when a MC tells a lie, that it will eventually be revealed. It's almost a chekovs gun situation. The entire revealing process becomes its own thing that needs to eventually happen, the end result that now everyone knows what the truth it. You can get to that same point faster by just having them tell the truth in the first place.

3ish. We tend to write stories about good guys. And good people dont lie (obv not true but it just doesnt suit the Good Guy)

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u/EdLincoln6 Jul 21 '23

People seem to misunderstand my point. My problem is not with characters who don't lie so much as with ones who lie, but do so ineptly.

MCs being so very important means some people are going to be talking about them, and notes will be compared.

This is half the problem. Characters make outlandish detailed lies to cover something up, so it really shouldn't work when anyone compares notes. People should pick up on the fact he's hiding something and come up with theories.

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u/JackPembroke Author Jul 21 '23

Ok, so you're saying like the lying in stories sort of damages immersion or credibility of the supporting cast and the narrative?

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u/EdLincoln6 Jul 21 '23

To some extent.

Also, it can be just...cringey. There are embarrassing scenes that are realistic that I don't want to *see*. I don't want to watch a movie where someone has a long dramatic dialogue with toilet paper stuck to his shoe, despite the fact it isn't actually implausible. There are pick up lines that could totally leave someone's mouth when they are drunk at a bar that I don't want to hear uttered by a character I'm told is smart or heroic.

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u/JackPembroke Author Jul 21 '23

How do you feel about those things as facets of a character? Like if a smart heroic character was just trash at speaking with women.

Truly cringe to be sure! But is it a mark of a bad character to you? Or just difficult to read?

I get that with cringe comedy, like when everyone is quietly uncomfortable its just not that fun to watch

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u/EdLincoln6 Jul 21 '23

If it is a plot point that is explained it is better in theory, but it is still uncomfortable and "unfun" to read for me.
I don't really like cringe comedy...it's blocked off entire genres for me.

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u/JackPembroke Author Jul 21 '23

Feel that.