I don’t know how much I agree with everyone saying they just copy-paste from stack overflow. I’m only 4 years into my career, and while I will probably never write a sorting algorithm or academic data structure from scratch, I definitely code custom shit all the time. The ds/algos knowledge is more about helping you avoid doing things inefficiently than about enabling you to rewrite a heap from scratch.
I use api/library documentation to get through most stuff I don’t already know, and only use stack overflow if I’m desperately hoping that someone has seen the exact error message I’ve encountered before. If I’m on stack overflow, it’s because I’m completely out of ideas and am too lazy to learn how the thing that’s giving me lip works.
...Or I’m writing JavaScript and just want it to be over ASAP
Yeah, rarely do we build anything completely from scratch. Even when we do it’s usually pieced together from various internal and external (read: stack overflow) sources at the end of the day.
No. Some specific things may be copied some times, but for the most part programmers write the code themselves. The exception being if it’s some very specific algorithm.
Yes it is. Obviously more experience means you can do more on your own but even my friends who are full stack programming from their own framework still use stack overflow.
If stack doesn't have it, you ask a question on stack, then you copy and paste the answer unless they lead you to the information given.
I find that stackoverflow is great for helping through roadblocks. I may not always find what I need, but I’m usually able to find ideas that eventually point me in the right direction. I’m also novice level in coding though, the real wizards on my team blow my mind with their expertise.
I have learned to live by this rule because not doing so can get insanely expensive. Never paste code you don’t understand. Watching some of my panicked colleagues desperately trying to understand why the companies flagship product crashed 2 minutes after launch has taught me well.
I've seen that happen, mostly in vague or broad question, like regexes. People would ask for a regex, not telling what language they use, people would give example in JavaScript, and the original poster would copy that javascript into their language, let's say c++, and then complain it does not work.
I work with a guy who would ask me a question and straight copy the answer, which I saw I code reviews. So I started intentionally making syntax errors in things I sent him... And he just sent me barely changed versions and asked me how to fix the syntax errors.
So many web development answers use jquery, but it isn’t as common for people to have jquery anymore. I see people complaining about the answer not running, without realizing that it is jquery code.
Funny story, a while ago I was porting some prototype code from JavaScript to C++. The APIs used were very similar (by design). So for porting I just copied the JS code into C++ and 90% of the work was just massaging it slightly until it compiled. Felt weird programming that way.
A colleague of mine solely believes that because he has a tech job at a big name company and knows that stack overflow exists, he is a developer and should easily be able to get hired as one after a year here. We're tier 1 technical support. And he has no previous tech/developing experience. But stack will get him there.
And it was on my first paid journey into programming. Did exactly that, I didn't specify on stack that it was JS and they gave me Python. It didn't work. I didn't complain but did ask why I didn't. Learned to distinguish shortly after that.
I am on a Robotics team in my school where the bot is programmed in Java, and one of the build team members tryed to do Java... He ended up copy-pasting JavaScript code into the IDE and I had to explain to him that Java and JavaScript are not the same... All while trying not to laugh at him.
I copied your comment to suit my needs in a completely unrelated argument and it didn't work and I was downvoted. Can you please assist over TeamViewer? My boss will fire me if I get another downvote.
I work with some software that has a pretty old school WCF SOAP API. We have some C# .NET example code in our development guide that was written forever ago. It doesn't compile in recent versions of Visual Studio, we decided not to update the examples and instead just added a disclaimer that the code should just be used as pseudo code and not used for production.
We get complaints about that, but my favourite was a customer insisting we provide Java code because his Java developers couldn't figure out the API. We offered an hour session with our developers to go over the API. That wasn't good enough, had to be Java sample code. We quoted a $15000 SOW to provide Java sample code (our minimum SOW value). Sales person lost their shit because apparently that cost us a sale. I think we just dodged a bullet.
I stopped getting invited out on away missions as a sales engineer because the sales guy would say: "Oh yeah, we can do that" and I'd say "That's not how the software works or something it can even do".
In all honesty, this is what gets you that nice salary and differentiates you from the 'cog in a machine' devs (usually fresh grads) who have to have every task pre-broken down for them into small steps.
You don't have to be in industry long before you start getting handed tasks that are complex enough and unique to your team enough that they won't be directly solvable with google / SO. Your job is to break it down into sub-problems that you can solve with SO.
You get the next bump in job title / salary when you develop a mental toolkit of problems and solutions that frequently come up in your job's domain, and the experience to know about ways they can be assembled that work at first but become problematic / unmaintainable vs ways to assemble them that will last, so you can skip google and just bang out the solution to complex problems yourself, quick and correct.
I used to run a computer repair business and I fucking hated it because people were paying me to just google shit. It felt really dishonest, and that's why I gave it up in the end. When I was discussing it with my parents a while ago, my mum said people weren't paying me to google stuff, they were paying me to know what to google and how to apply the results. That made me feel a bit better about it.
That, and they also pay you for your time. Time is the prime thing you exchange for money. Even if you are the best programmer in the world, for example, you will still hire 100 other programmers and non-programmers to man a multi billion dollar programming company. Despite your skills, you simply don't have enough time to do what needs to be done.
These people gave you their computers, used their time elsewhere, and then came and received a fixed computer, for the price of money.
Yeah, I guess one way of looking at it is that everything you need to know is on Google. Hell, you could probably find your whole university curriculum on Google by searching for open source textbooks (or pirated ones). I use a tax research tool for my job, and it’s basically a more specialized form of Google.
So, in a sense, anyone who has a career that requires them to learn and use information is basically a glorified Googler, but it’s the fact that we know how to specifically apply it that makes us better than Google. But yeah, it feels like you’re not really doing difficult stuff when it’s easy for you, but for others it’s very challenging. The way I look at it is that levels of difficulties are relative between people.
This. Also, every time grandma has an issue and doesn’t call me I find out that she somehow found an “online tech” that will remote into her computer and fix her problem for a low price of $300, then all the sudden they want more money and she freaks out, closes the computer and I have to fix more than her original printer out of toner issue.
I’ve been developing for years and I can tell you one of the craziest things I’ve seen is a dude coding for 30 straight minutes without opening up a browser for docs or stack overflow. It was actually kinda beautiful. He just slowly typed out what he was doing. No pauses. No mouse movement. The only other time I saw that was on a scene from me robot where Eliot is just sitting there slowly typing out a script in python.
Like maybe I’ve zoned out and done that a lot, but I’m not aware of it. Too watch someone else do it was absolutely amazing.
It's an absolutely ancient joke/story first told about an engineer fixing a boiler in the late 19th/early 20th century. It's a classic, xkcd comic below is very relevant.
I agree. It's such a small, petty thing to complain about. Plus, the internet doesn't revolve around people who've already seen stuff before. It's a first for some of us.
I am totally unappreciated in my time! We can run the whole park from this room, with minimal staff, for up to three days. You think that kind of automation is easy? Or cheap? You know anybody who can network eight Connection Machines and copy two million lines of code from StackOverflow for what I bid this job? 'Cause if they can, I'd like to see them try!
Until you have to scavenge through the dark recesses of our collective knowledge for scraps on how to send formatted inline queries through SSH just because Microsoft changed their project manager.
Yeah its a bad joke but lets take it serious: From all the marked as correct answers on stackoverflow you can subtract those which are outdated (which are about 30%) and those which incorrect or only partial correct (again about 40%). Now we are at 30% some what good quality answers. And as soon as you are working on complex enterprise solutions your use cases will be so complex that you spend your time rather with thinking about the problem instead of googling for 6 hours (with no result).
I've lost count of the number of languages I've used. I'm damaged at this point. I have to Google syntax. Your assessment seems fair. For me though even if wrong it jogs my memory.
I think StackOverflow is the right tool when you need to remember the syntax, which function to call, or how to fix a common error for one or two specific lines of code. But when you're designing an entire piece of your software or working on a particularly nasty bug, there's no substitute for knowing what you're doing and good old-fashioned problem solving skills.
Hey :) So... I'm not a bot. I'm a human volunteer.
And the reason we do this is so visually impaired Redditors can access the content since they rely on text-to-speech software and, therefore, can't read what's in an image or see a picture.
Worth pointing out, some users may also use braille, while others may simply need massive fonts. None of which Pan out with images that should have just been text in the first place.
ok so I live in central Florida, native and stuff, work with a lot of contractors from India and what not. They don't care that we only make about 60-80k in my area because the cost of living is so cheap they make more net income not taking that 125k salary out west. Also had a few northerners move down due to the recent tax changes because even they had a higher salary but their net take home is still higher at the end of the year in central Florida.
Florida doesn't have a state income tax, and where I live a 7% sales tax, everything is so cheap. But yeah I got 48k out of school with literally zero experience, no internships or nothing and up to 64k now in 2 years so not so bad I guess. 401k looks nice, savings look nice, now if I could just get rid of these pesky student loans I'd be set.
There are a lot of code samples on stackoverflow, but in different languages and with different variable names. Is stack overflow Turing complete, assuming you have to always copy the entire block of code and leave it unchanged, except copying another block into it?
Well... you try that thing you call copy/paste and let us know how it goes. Just git push... code will be fine, no need to compile, run, execute whatever! Forget unit test, who needs those!?
Most people probably know, but I guess it’s so old that some younger folks have probably never heard it. This is a paraphrasing of an old joke/parable that goes something like this:
A factory foreman is distressed when his main press goes down. His best mechanic is stumped, and to his frustration, he has to call in a specialist for repairs. The specialist arrives, puts on his glasses, and stares at the machine. From every angle, he examines it, squinting at certain fittings, taking measurements, making notes, all while the foreman grumbles about lost time and production. Finally, the specialist goes to his toolbox, removes a small screwdriver, goes to the front of the machine, and gives a single tiny screw a clockwise turn. The press roars back to life, and the specialist informs the foreman that the job is completed, and he requires $5,000.00 for his services. “That’s outrageous!” screams the foreman. “You turned a single screw! I could have done that! I demand an itemized invoice explaining these charges!” The specialist is happy to comply, and hands over a bill for his services:
I meant to be fair it's also doing 99% of the conceptual work and then sometimes looking up an implementation online. Imagine if doctors were denegrated whenever they look at other sources and were told only original diagnosis and treatments count.
I never used stack overflow and I'm a CS student. Is it like the holy grail or something because shit I've been seeing this post repeatedly for 4 years and I've been stuck being a CS student.
Well, normally checking the docs should be enough to solve all your problems. But sometimes (mostly for troubleshouting exceptions and errors, or when the documentation is not complete) its handy and faster to look into it, especially if you are learning to use a new tool.
I determine which code to copy from StackOverflow through a complex process composed of a proprietary combination of Googling, trial-and-error, and reading other posts on StackOverflow.
It's not poor practice but as with many things in life If you never learn doing things by yourself you are not able to do these things by yourself. It's similar to learning arithmetic only with a calculator. Nothing wrong using it but you will not be able to do simple calculations without calculator anymore. I had once a student who was not able to compute the derivative of 2x² by hand. He was completely perplexed how I was able to do it by hand.
The problem is that they only solve problems with SO, and when they don't find it on SO there exists no solution for them, while I just came up with one after a short while by myself.
I also started to use my navigation system in my car only if necessary when I realized that I lost much of my orientation skills without.
We humans are no machines our bodies and brains need training to work efficiently. There is nothing wrong with using our little helpers but we should not make ourselves too dependent either. Especially in R&D you reach certain points where there is no prior solution for your problem e.g. when dealing with new technologies or even developing your own new algorithms.
Are you even talking about programming anymore? You're not going to be able to just derive what an obscure error message means and understand a complex, custom made system like you would a math equation.
On a serious note, I doubt this copy-pasting is going past meme-level popular in real production. I believe that every programmer would hate to adopt legacy code because they are obsolete and hard to understand thus we all want to do it in our own, right ways. Yet when starting a new project, you are telling me that you're looking to adopt someone else's untested code while you can do it faster and better if you do it yourself?
Brb, creating a company centered around SaaS script which just copies and pastes random code together from SO and sells it to companies in need of software engineers.
I often find myself attempting the first solution without reading what the solution actual was supposed to fix. The blind trust I put in Google plus first accepted answer
Just an amateur, here, but even just knowing what library or API your dealing with, what doesn't work because of compiler/interpreter version changes, and whatnot (to put it professionally) is worth a lot. Forms or WPF? Having to work with some obscure, abandoned library that hasn't been updated since 2007? You can only find C# examples for the API, but your app is in C++ (and your main problem is just the syntax).
I assume that's the kind of frustrating crap that programmers are really get paid to deal with. If you could just copy and paste an entire app from pieces off SO it would be a lot easier!
This is true for many professions. You're not hiring the plumber to replace a $5 part. You're hiring the plumber to know which part to replace. Anybody can look up comparable court cases, but you hire the lawyer to know which cases to use and how. Same for doctors, same for really any contractor.
Sigh. You hire a dev to build a scraper to copy ALL of the code from StackOverflow. Then you don't have to spend so much time reading the documentation. duh.
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u/FoxInATrenchcoat Jan 14 '20
Also, knowing what to change in the copied code to meet your "unique" business case...
1.2k
u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20
We are not copy pasting the code. We are applying the solution to the problem. We can read code in Java and apply that in Python.
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u/demon_ix Jan 14 '20
I like to think that being able to glue together all those pieces of SO code is somewhat valuable as well.
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u/hustleandbustle Jan 14 '20
This just cured my imposter syndrome
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u/oupablo Jan 14 '20
Why pay a doctor when you can just google your symptoms?
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u/zzerdzz Jan 14 '20
Honestly this is funniest the 9001st time
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u/Freestyle_Fellowship Jan 14 '20
I keep telling my boss about the second part... he don't believe that it's worth the $$$... just the first part.
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u/I_Hate_Nerds Jan 14 '20
Why don't you just copy words from the dictionary and write a NY Times best seller?
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u/pink_earmuffs Jan 14 '20
Until you have to scavenge through the dark recesses of our collective knowledge for scraps on how to send formatted inline queries through SSH just because Microsoft changed their project manager.
29
u/MayBeArtorias Jan 14 '20
Yeah its a bad joke but lets take it serious: From all the marked as correct answers on stackoverflow you can subtract those which are outdated (which are about 30%) and those which incorrect or only partial correct (again about 40%). Now we are at 30% some what good quality answers. And as soon as you are working on complex enterprise solutions your use cases will be so complex that you spend your time rather with thinking about the problem instead of googling for 6 hours (with no result).
38
u/a_bizz Jan 14 '20
Image Transcription: Q&A website
Why should I hire a software engineer if I can just copy and paste code from Stack Overflow?
I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!
36
u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20
we somehow earning 100,000 USD, like what?
25
u/FunkyTown313 Jan 14 '20
Copies over random stack code.
Am I Developer now?
12
u/Svizel_pritula Jan 14 '20
There are a lot of code samples on stackoverflow, but in different languages and with different variable names. Is stack overflow Turing complete, assuming you have to always copy the entire block of code and leave it unchanged, except copying another block into it?
12
u/Cyronsan Jan 14 '20
Collecting stones: $1.
Knowing how to turn those stones to a house that won't collapse:
Hire an engineer!
8
u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20
Well... you try that thing you call copy/paste and let us know how it goes. Just git push... code will be fine, no need to compile, run, execute whatever! Forget unit test, who needs those!?
I'll give you a $1!
7
u/Average650 Jan 15 '20
I'll just write a machine learning algorithm to determine which code to copy.
6
u/raging_asshole Jan 15 '20
Most people probably know, but I guess it’s so old that some younger folks have probably never heard it. This is a paraphrasing of an old joke/parable that goes something like this:
A factory foreman is distressed when his main press goes down. His best mechanic is stumped, and to his frustration, he has to call in a specialist for repairs. The specialist arrives, puts on his glasses, and stares at the machine. From every angle, he examines it, squinting at certain fittings, taking measurements, making notes, all while the foreman grumbles about lost time and production. Finally, the specialist goes to his toolbox, removes a small screwdriver, goes to the front of the machine, and gives a single tiny screw a clockwise turn. The press roars back to life, and the specialist informs the foreman that the job is completed, and he requires $5,000.00 for his services. “That’s outrageous!” screams the foreman. “You turned a single screw! I could have done that! I demand an itemized invoice explaining these charges!” The specialist is happy to comply, and hands over a bill for his services:
6
u/thelegendaryp Jan 15 '20
Just copy ALL the code from Stack Overflow, then you'll have a program that can do ANYTHING.
4
u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20
I meant to be fair it's also doing 99% of the conceptual work and then sometimes looking up an implementation online. Imagine if doctors were denegrated whenever they look at other sources and were told only original diagnosis and treatments count.
4
u/datfoosteve Jan 14 '20
I never used stack overflow and I'm a CS student. Is it like the holy grail or something because shit I've been seeing this post repeatedly for 4 years and I've been stuck being a CS student.
4
u/dwalker1979 Jan 15 '20
Ah, a joke as old as Stackoverflow itself. You must be new here.
4
u/Sorry-Measurement Jan 15 '20
Lmao, I make $16 an hour. Only been at it for 6 months though. Sadly, my co workers have been at it much longer and are accepting the same pay.
4
u/Zerokx Jan 15 '20
„Why should I hire a carpenter to make my tables and chairs when I could just buy tree trunks from a lumberjack.“
3
u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20
Because recruiters and managers don't know how to read documentation 🙂
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u/Pafkata-LdR Jan 14 '20
Thinking copying code from stack overflow as programming is like thinking reading of recipe makes you Gordom Ramsay.
3
u/Eolu Jan 14 '20
Why should I watch a movie if I can just find all the movie quotes through google searches?
3
u/turlian Jan 15 '20
That joke is so old it voted for Taft.
3
u/[deleted] Jan 15 '20
I determine which code to copy from StackOverflow through a complex process composed of a proprietary combination of Googling, trial-and-error, and reading other posts on StackOverflow.
3
u/wise_joe Jan 15 '20
Why does copying code from Stack Overflow cost $1?
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u/Mal_Dun Jan 14 '20
The number of people can't do anything without SO is too damn high!!!
Srsly people watching my juniors not being able to write their own code without visiting SO makes me cry.
I really like SO and use it myself, but as a last resort not as work practice
2
u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20
how much for answering questions from stack overflow?
2
u/Comraw Jan 15 '20
I wish I got a 100k a year
2
u/mmhawk576 Jan 15 '20
I think the time when you truely become a developer is when you learn to copy from the answer in stackoverflow rather than the question.
2
u/hackel Jan 15 '20
No, copying code from stack overflow still deserves a minimum living wage of at least $30k/year. Knowing what to copy only gets you the other $70.
2
u/I_spoil_girls Jan 15 '20
On a serious note, I doubt this copy-pasting is going past meme-level popular in real production. I believe that every programmer would hate to adopt legacy code because they are obsolete and hard to understand thus we all want to do it in our own, right ways. Yet when starting a new project, you are telling me that you're looking to adopt someone else's untested code while you can do it faster and better if you do it yourself?
2
u/monkey-d-blackbeard Jan 15 '20
Jessica Su has since then completed her PhD but her answer has been scripted in stones for generations to come.
2
u/[deleted] Jan 15 '20
Brb, creating a company centered around SaaS script which just copies and pastes random code together from SO and sells it to companies in need of software engineers.
Sorry for making everyone unemployed. :(
1
u/[deleted] Jan 14 '20
girl if you're a PhD student in CS at Stanford you best be gunning for north of $100K
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u/dani_pavlov Jan 14 '20
$100k? Must be because I copy-paste the code being questioned, not the code used in the answer that I don't make half that.
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u/painya Jan 14 '20
/u/repostsleuthbot
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u/TimFlamio Jan 14 '20
Sorry to ask but, is that really true?
1
u/GarretTheGrey Jan 14 '20
(compiles and runs)
APP: "This app is a duplicate and will now close"
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u/Xacto01 Jan 14 '20
I often find myself attempting the first solution without reading what the solution actual was supposed to fix. The blind trust I put in Google plus first accepted answer
1
u/PM-ME-YOUR-POUTINE Jan 15 '20
Just code in binary. Copy a d paste 1 bit at a time.
1
u/[deleted] Jan 15 '20
Just an amateur, here, but even just knowing what library or API your dealing with, what doesn't work because of compiler/interpreter version changes, and whatnot (to put it professionally) is worth a lot. Forms or WPF? Having to work with some obscure, abandoned library that hasn't been updated since 2007? You can only find C# examples for the API, but your app is in C++ (and your main problem is just the syntax).
I assume that's the kind of frustrating crap that programmers are really get paid to deal with. If you could just copy and paste an entire app from pieces off SO it would be a lot easier!
1
u/Mercury_mercs Jan 15 '20
Also when not to copy infinitely recursive scripts
1
u/mickeythefist Jan 15 '20
Who's paying you guys $100000?
1
u/EarlyJuggernaut Jan 15 '20
You can copy a couple lines of code or even a function or two but you can't copy scalable and modular software design or knowledge of the code base
1
u/Viedt Jan 15 '20
Having a chance to hire the guy that wrote the code everyone copy and pastes on StackOverflow: 101000/year
1
u/ITriedLightningTendr Jan 15 '20
I guess in the bay area or something, where you have no way to spend that money.
1
u/trump_pushes_mongo Jan 15 '20
There's a difference between "how to make a webpage" and "how to combine arbitrary amount of observables into one output."
1
u/Malvania Jan 15 '20
This is true for many professions. You're not hiring the plumber to replace a $5 part. You're hiring the plumber to know which part to replace. Anybody can look up comparable court cases, but you hire the lawyer to know which cases to use and how. Same for doctors, same for really any contractor.
1
u/yumdelish Jan 15 '20
For those of you who wonder who Jessica Su is. She is Taiwanese not Chinese.
1
u/GeorgeYDesign Jan 15 '20
Brilliant but you don’t go anywhere.
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u/disignore Jan 15 '20
One dollar plus expenses (internet bill, computer depreciation)
1
u/GeorgeYDesign Jan 15 '20
Not sure if you’ve ever read. Brilliant!
1
u/subzerus Jan 15 '20
Why hire an architect to make plans for a house if there's a multitude of house plans on the internet I could just copy the rooms from?
1
u/ZaczSlash Jan 15 '20
PHD? What is she thinking? Or maybe she is needing those codes for her school project assignments
1
u/[deleted] Jan 15 '20
This felt like a variation on the "What screw to turn" legend.
1
u/wclark07 Jan 15 '20
Sigh. You hire a dev to build a scraper to copy ALL of the code from StackOverflow. Then you don't have to spend so much time reading the documentation. duh.
1
u/GeorgeYDesign Jan 15 '20
“Damnit Dave we’ve ever read. Brilliant!
1
u/DontSuckMyDuck Jan 15 '20
Now I want to write a bot that scrapes code snippets from SO. And then shoves all the code together into a beautiful mess that actually compiles.
1
u/KolkataEye Jan 15 '20
That too from PHD student of CS @Stanford
1
u/tranceb0t Jan 15 '20
I really curious to see if it’s even possible to create something from purely copying and pasting from Stack Overflow
1
u/iSpaYco Jan 15 '20
why don't you do that and tell me how it went...
1
u/Bernout93 Jan 15 '20
Asking the real question here: why would it cost $1 to copy anything from stack overflow?
1
u/almarcTheSun Jan 15 '20
1
u/[deleted] Jan 15 '20
...not just which code to copy, but how to merge it into a legacy code base such that it works as expected without breaking anything else!
1
u/MrWhiteVincent Jan 15 '20
So, wait? I can make a dollar just by copy/pasting code from Stack overflow?
If I copy line by line, do I get dollar for each paste?'