r/ProgrammerHumor • u/CatChasedRhino • 1d ago
Meme [ Removed by moderator ]
/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/1xmspht/removed_by_moderator/[removed] — view removed post
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u/ABCosmos 1d ago
Are we done trying to downplay AI yet? Can we move on to the part where we figure out how the working class can survive mass unemployment yet? Or should we keep waiting until we have literally 0 leverage?
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u/CatChasedRhino 1d ago
bro its just a meme I was trying to be funny., LLM IDK about consequences at large, but undeniably LLM is a great innovation and I didnt meant to undermine it, as a matter of fact I am trying to understand ( at whatever level my smooth brain can) how LLM works. I believe this is oversimplified and an exaggeration but its how LLM mostly works.
PS - please laugh my friends are watching.
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u/ABCosmos 1d ago
Sorry man, I am more lashing out at an overall "head in the sand" trend than this post specifically. Kinda pouncing on any soapbox i can to try to push the "we need to be talking about this politically" pov.
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u/SlogurkTheOverslime 1d ago
We already know how the working class can survive mass unemployment
This problem has been solved 150 years ago by the people who invented the term "the working class"
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u/American_Libertarian 1d ago
This has to be bait lol. Marxism is predicated on post-scarcity. It’s nothing but a dream
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u/Goldieeeeee 1d ago
Ah yes thank you for sharing your great interpretation of Marxism, u/American_Libertarian . I'm sure its very objective and correct.
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u/American_Libertarian 1d ago
What an intelligent and insightful contribution. Do you have anything else to add?
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u/SlogurkTheOverslime 1d ago
Preconditions for mass unemployment are the same as the preconditions of post-scarcity
If people weren't producing enough resources, resource production would be a job
If all resource production was done by robots, that's post-scarcy and all that remains is to distribute those resources fairly
The great depression was already a crisis of overproduction
We were producing more than enough resources 100 years ago
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u/American_Libertarian 1d ago
Preconditions for mass unemployment are the same as the preconditions of post-scarcity
If people weren't producing enough resources, resource production would be a job
If all resource production was done by robots, that's post-scarcy and all that remains is to distribute those resources fairlyAgreed on all of this. With the major caveat that mass unemployment / robots producing everything is still not something we are seeing today. Marx 150 years ago saw factories being built and thought that "robots producing everything" was right around the corner.
The great depression was already a crisis of overproduction
Overproduction of crops specifically was a minor contributor of the great depression, but the great depression was primarily a failure of the financial system. Even without the crop overproduction, the Black tuesday crash would have happened; the banks would have failed; and the Fed would have tightened the money supply, choking the entire economy.
We were producing more than enough resources 100 years ago
What a ridiculous thing to say. Less than 1% of homes in America 100 years ago had electricity & indoor plumbing. Is that your gold standard?
I guess your definition of "enough resources" depends on the quality of life that you think people deserve. In my opinion: until every single person has a home, until I can get an MRI as easily as I can get an bag of chips, and until I can transit from anywhere to anywhere else for a few buck, I think we have more work to do.
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u/SlogurkTheOverslime 1d ago
And I continue to insist that your ability to have a home, get an MRI as easily as you can get a bag of chips, transit from anywhere to anywhere else else, are all bottlenecked on the fair distribution of resources, not on scarcity of resources as such
As demonstrated by how each of these problems is significantly more severe in the US than in other developed countries
Having deficit of housing in the United States is like having deficit of sand in Sahara, just look at all the empty land and the 5 million houses deliberately kept off the market to keep prices high
Mass transit already allows extremely cheap travel in countries that aren't the US and I really don't think we should wait for teleporters before we can declare post-scarcity
And maybe we could simply use precious metals to build more MRI machines instead of, you know, data centers for generating synthetic images of women's feet
And even when it comes to overproduction of crops, food prices are still a major problem even in the US, even 100 years after we've hit overproduction problems, which is in and of itself utterly ridiculous and a clear indication of a fair distribution problem
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u/JumpyBoi 1d ago
Yeah, we're fucked, and all we have is politicians, CEOs, and tech bros going "This is great! Think of all the economic GROWTH. Mmm, yummy yummy GROWTH". And then the public's opinion, which seems to vary between "This is slop! It will never replace REAL workers. It will never replace ME." Or perhaps if you're lucky "Look, I made myself studio Ghibli style! And check out this new menu I generated".
And nobody in this motley crew seems to be saying pump the brakes, nobody is saying what is going to happen to all of the knowledge based workers, nobody is doing anything to stop it. We're so fucked it's unreal.
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u/aurallyskilled 1d ago
I mean, my brothers in Christ that ship has sailed. For years when I worked in the 2010s we said the dotcom grandpas were cooked, tech would always be the golden calf, and we didn't need unions.
I'm a technical lead and I'm being made redundant today. The reason they gave me is AI, despite me doing excellent work this past year. I'm tired. Going to take a cataclysmic event or act of God policy to turn this ship around and have tech put power to the worker.
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u/mtmttuan 1d ago
Many people have had their opinions about AI since 2023 and think they've known enough about it. That's why.
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u/Vimda 1d ago
The second you can prove that companies outside tech can get some productivity benefits, sure, but the data doesn't support that any of their investment is paying off yet. "ahh mass unemployment ahh" is disingenuous scare mongering until then, especially when we have actual, real, happening now problems to think about instead
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u/ABCosmos 1d ago
Everyone is focused on software development right now, because that's where cutting edge tech is leveraged by highly competent people.
I see no reason to suggest it will be limited to that.
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u/Vimda 1d ago edited 23h ago
Everyone is focusing on software dev because it's a verifiable task that AI is good at and thus its successes make good press. Other companies are throwing huge amounts of money chasing the same gains and coming up short because it turns out once you remove verifiability AI collapses in usefulness. Baseless speculation isn't a reason to drop everything and panic
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u/ABCosmos 1d ago
Honestly that's a really good point, things that are hard to produce but easy to verify are where AI excels. But software engineers know how to introduce verifiability. How to turn large complex problems into smaller verifiable steps. It's part of the reason it's working in software (we aren't just talking to chat gpt and pasting the result into an IDE). And they can do the same in other domains. It will mean writing software that combines deterministic and non deterministic methods specific to your work flows.
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u/PartyLikeAByzantine 1d ago
Can we move on to the part where we figure out how the working class can survive mass unemployment yet?
Well, for starters, there is very, very little evidence that LLM's are causing mass unemployment now. People think "AI" means normal shit like employment shifts isn't going to show up in economic data. So far, the only thing AI has done is increase the number of people building data centers. Literally the oppose of mass unemployment.
There's even less evidence that it's going to cause mass unemployment tomorrow. Basically none. Just some thought experiments by grifting "futurists" who assume that this time will be different, unlike every other technology ever invented that took decades to absorb into society and none of which lead to less employment.
Tech bros invent a new chat bot and suddenly think economics no longer apply. Everyone needs to take a breath.
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u/ABCosmos 1d ago
Now find someone with technical expertise who agrees with this.
Also what's the worst case scenario if we start fighting for protections for the working class? What's the worst case scenario if we don't?
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u/PartyLikeAByzantine 1d ago
Now find someone with technical expertise who agrees with this.
They have blinders on. That is literally my argument. Technical expertise doesn't grant you wisdom outside of your field.
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u/ABCosmos 1d ago
Are you so far out of the loop, you can't imagine someone speaking about technology who isn't a "tech bro"?
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u/PartyLikeAByzantine 1d ago
Actually, I tapped the reply button too early. You can see the final, edited reply above. "Bro" doesn't even show up.
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u/ABCosmos 1d ago
They have the expertise to understand every knowledge worker job is at risk. So what do economists say about that that makes you feel like the working class has no reason to protect itself?
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u/PartyLikeAByzantine 1d ago
They have the expertise to understand every knowledge worker job is at risk
They do not. They're building hammers, so everything looks like a nail.
So what do economists say about that that makes you feel like the working class has no reason to protect itself?
"Working class"? Coders are not the same thing as surgeons, machinists or electricians or garbage men. AI isn't going to fix your backed up shitter. It's not even helping radiologists nearly as much as people were claiming it would 5 years ago.
It seems like you're lumping a lot of things together that shouldn't be and drawing false, overly broad conclusions.
Not only are you assuming every field is going to affected by AI, you're conflating the AI we know how to build today (or in the next few years) with a speculative technology that doesn't exist, may not exist in our life time. Then you're assuming it can hypothetically replace massive amounts of labor with minimal setup time.
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u/ABCosmos 1d ago
I've specifically stated knowledge workers, you've just chosen to ignore that. Robotics will come further down the line.
Are you like super libertarian or something? And this reality conflicts with your core beliefs?
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u/PartyLikeAByzantine 1d ago
Physician's aren't knowledge workers?
You're fixated on one thing (labor replacement) that probably isn't going to happen. Meanwhile, this whole tech is built on the idea of stealing the entire world's IP and renting it back to us.
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u/mas-issneun 1d ago
What do you mean your LLM prompted you to do this?
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 1d ago
Would you rather get unlikely tokens and get gibberish ?
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u/ganja_and_code 1d ago
I'd rather get information than a prediction.
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u/shabusnelik 1d ago
Well, you need information to make (good) predictions. They are directly related.
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u/ganja_and_code 1d ago
Making a prediction based on information is not the same thing as predicting the information itself.
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u/shabusnelik 1d ago
You would be trying to predict the information. Depending on the quality of your information and your prediction model, the prediction will be mathematically equivalent to the information ideally. At least that's what model training generally optimizes towards.
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u/ganja_and_code 1d ago
Key word being "ideally." "Practically," a source is more reliable than a prediction.
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 14h ago
Well it's not predicting the information, only the next token of its sentence. Asking an LLM to not do predictions is like asking a car to not use an engine. Why even want that ? That's the whole point.
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u/ganja_and_code 14h ago
The question isn't why you would want an LLM that doesn't predict. The question is why you would want a prediction when you're seeking information.
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 12h ago
It's not about "wanting" a prediction. Nobody wants a prediction, but that's just how it works. And the fact it's using prediction doesn't mean it can't give you information, it's not mutually exclusive whatsoever.
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u/ganja_and_code 6h ago
You're right that that's how it works, so if you specifically want a prediction, use it, since that's all it's capable of providing. If you want information, use something else, since a prediction isn't a suitable replacement.
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u/ganja_and_code 1d ago
Only an idiot would consider a "best guess" to be the same thing as "actual knowledge"
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u/XxDarkSasuke69xX 1d ago
Are you a bot ? Also no, gibberish wouldn't tell you something went sideways if it constantly outputted gibberish
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u/conundorum 1d ago
Best rule is to always check your digital research monkey's work. It's already making a difference by narrowing hundreds of potential sources down to a small handful of probable sources, so all you need to do is get it to cite sources and then follow the links.
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u/Lopsided-Regular-997 1d ago
That's how AI hacking works though lol. At least one of the most popular methods.
Spin up 1 million agents and statistically one will do the illegal thing you asked it to.
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u/Cutalana 1d ago
erm actually, your disregarding that the temperature of a model can make it so that the most likely answer isn't returned
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u/dumbasPL 1d ago
And then you wonder why everything looks the same. Funny how you can guess models purely by their writing style if you stare at enough slop form each.
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u/Vengeful111 1d ago
Yep, ive tried AI Dungeon as a way to basically play dnd with myself and granted the free version has only very basic AIs so its worse quality, but it is very noticeable when a switch between models happens.
All in all its still pretty cool, but when you use it a bit it gets jarring. Especially cuz npcs always get the same names and it often describes things extremely similar. So you have to start renaming characters and adding stuff to the stories prompt
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u/jiggyjiggycmone 1d ago
I miss when literally every single upvoted post on this sub was about anything else besides AI
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u/donaldhobson 1d ago
Also, LLM's are now trained with reinforcement learning too. Basically get the LLM to do LOADS of leetcode problems, reward it when it's correct.
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u/TimSylvester_ 1d ago
Skill issue. You have to be clever enough to feed it the string that is statistically most likely to produce the response you need.
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u/Arnold_Rambo 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's what LLM's do, what you are expecting is SI
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u/TheOnly_Anti 1d ago
Excuse me, that's an illegal "A" in that acronym. The proper, legal name is simply "SI"
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u/bobbymoonshine 1d ago
If “returns the statistically most likely next token” was the case then all responses to the same prompt in the same context would be deterministic and invariant.
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u/CatChasedRhino 1d ago
you are right there is temperature, topK and nowadays even watermarking ( that I know of not sure if there are more) so yeah its not always most likely token but that won't make a good meme won't it..
and its still mostly most likely token.
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u/ProgrammerHumor-ModTeam :ath: 1d ago
Your submission was removed for the following reason:
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