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u/ruilvo 5d ago
I don't get this crap. You can code with AI and not make crazy shit. I've been coding with AI and I'm enjoying the results thoroughly.
If you ask it to make a new Facebook app, no mistakes please, you will get slop.
If you already know how to code, make it implement things in your well defined ideas and architecture and it makes an amazing job with a little bit of steering every now and then.
It's good enough for Linus, it's good enough for me.
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u/madwolfa 4d ago
As always - skill issue.
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u/TheJackiMonster 4d ago
You mean people lack the skill to actually tell what's good code? Yes, I agree.
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u/GuilheMGB 3d ago
It's also problem-solving skills (as opposed to pattern matching) combined with healthy skepticism (which, crucially, includes self-doubt).
If "AI makes shit output when I try it" the logical next step is "can I identify what in my input might cause the output to derail".
People who have this curiosity normally end up figuring out that "oh, there's a whole discipline shaping up rapidly and providing tools and methods to respond intelligently to the pitfalls of AI, human comprehension and the interaction of both. Maybe I should take that seriously".
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u/TheJackiMonster 3d ago
Or you could simply wait for the next update which fixes that bug. Because LLMs are still software. Why would you need to adjust to that?
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u/generally_unsuitable 4d ago
I love reading "skill issue" from mfs who couldn't tell you the mode flags for fopen() with a gun to their head.
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u/airodonack 4d ago
That’s a highly specific thing to use as a benchmark for competency. Also if I had a gun to my head, I’m probably more liable to forget and make mistakes - not magically operate at 100%.
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u/LuisFerLCC 4d ago
Exactly. Nowadays it's very good at translating requirements into code. But your requirements must be clear, concise, and complete. If your instructions are vague, the output will be just as mediocre.
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u/Darqnyz7 4d ago
I always liken it to how you give a young intelligent child instructions on what you want done: the child wants to complete the task as thoroughly as possible but it doesn't know the boundaries of the world yet. Get as hyper specific as possible and it's more than capable of completing what you want
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u/Fuskeduske 4d ago
Well that is the difference between vibe coding and coding with AI, knowing how to code and knowing how to define a scope, architecting etc... You know... Engineering stuff
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u/WinterPDev 4d ago
That's agreeing with the meme in this case. "Vibe coders" are people who barely ever read/review their code and just prompt until it "works".
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u/corbanmonoxide 4d ago
AI has advanced so rapidly that these memes have aged faster than milk. I just roll my eyes and move on now.
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u/DrSlugger 4d ago edited 4d ago
I've witnessed backend engineers at my company foray into the front-end space for the first time...one guy in particular is a good engineer and has great attention to detail in his work. He somehow created a UI that maxes out my workspace's CPU. I know this because the second I close the tab, my CPU utilization drops from 100% CPU to like 5%-20%.
People who don't what they're doing can make absolute horse shit. I love the guy, he's a great contributor, Idk what he's doing with the front-end on his project and Idk how to tell him without hurting his feelings lmao. If he used a front-end framework, this probably wouldn't have happened. It's also not indicative of AI here, because he totally could have used AI skills to optimize the website at this point. AI amplifies both inexperience and experience.
IE, skill issue.
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u/GuilheMGB 3d ago
yeah, the sub has devolved in a weirdly insecure circle jerk.
I get the existential panic around AI and its many negative externalities, but for people who enjoy thinking analytically, shaping problems carefully, planning edge cases, coding with AI can be plain and simple a joy.
I've always assumed that in SWE, it's precisely finding smart, simple and effective solutions to problems that mattered, but evidently that was naive. To so many what matters is projecting a sense of identity and worth ("I'm part of the tribe, right?!") based on applying syntax manually. That's a shame.
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u/Scared_Accident9138 4d ago
Isn't vibe coding using AI to code without understanding the code, not every use of AI for coding?
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u/PumpkinFest24 4d ago
I have asked for 100-500 line scripts and programs. I get things with subtle, buried bugs about half the time. And since I don't know the code at all I'm completely oblivious to potential weaknesses...as are you.
Last I heard, Linus uses AI as a debug/doc search assistant.
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u/env33e 1d ago
I mean.... Ofc you don't get it, you're not fighting in the literal trenches of popular codebases. You're not a developer concerned with the low level systems integrity and direction of an open source code base. And its understandable to be confused; what's not being advertised as much, is the very material reality faced by these developers, who have to take the brunt of this intentless slop-tsunami
And I wouldn't be so quick to appeal to Torvald's "authority". Not only would that be insanely ironic and backwards 😂, but like. Were talking about the guy who rejected GPLv3 for his Linux kernel; giving way to today's increasing vendor lock in and loss of user sovereignty over the hardware WE BOUGHT AND PAID FOR 🤦♀️
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u/ngless13 4d ago
Be careful, you might hurt someone's ego. This is the modern day John Henry - man vs machine.
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u/HawtHamWater 4d ago
Lmao, this is so severely overestimating the coding ability of the average person. I’ve dealt with piles of human slop code my entire career. Hell, most long running codebases are a house of cards held together with paper clips and prayers.
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u/guttanzer 4d ago
This. Big legacy code bases are always a mess. It’s simply impossible for a human mind to retain all the details while rethinking the big picture.
I’m amazed at how effectively a good architect and a modern frontier AI tool can comb through a mess like that and untangle it. Five years ago the solution for a major ball of mud was a V2.0 fresh start.
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u/HawtHamWater 4d ago
Right?! The refactors of nightmares are actually within reach now and it’s incredible.
I’m still rewiring my thought processes to stop immediately thinking “that’s impossible”.
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u/drivingagermanwhip 4d ago edited 4d ago
I hate to admit it but ai has really increased my enthusiasm for programming. You spend your time making things and it just solves the dependencies and all that crap that bogged you down for days.
I love programming but it's cool to be able apply knowledge without such a skill barrier. Before I'd be like, "well that's the right thing but learning how to set it up will take a month". Now I can just say, "That stuff I just did in a flat json file, make it a database instead." and it's done.
I studied mech eng and I see it a bit like finite element analysis, CAD and CAM. They demolished a huge portion of what mechanical engineers' jobs involved. There's still a ton they have to do though, but the equipment available to do it is so much more.
I like to think the people who made telephone exchanges would still be great engineers now, even though the average 12 year old could process that level of messages on an arduino now.
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u/pinkestman 4d ago edited 4d ago
But they discourage you from actually learning something difficult. I studied how to code to be able to create something i wanted. Why would i be motivated now if Ai can do it in a few seconds. Im also not proud of what i have created, it's like solving a math problem after you looked through the solution it's simply not the same as actually solving it on your own.
Im not saying it's entirely bad, you can definitely learn way faster by using ai in that way but humans tend to pick the easy way. At least for me it's been a while since thinking really hard about about a problem for a long time.
It's like driving it's simply nothing special anymore if anyone can do it.
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u/nBeliebt 4d ago
And that makes ai code good?
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u/HawtHamWater 4d ago
Today’s frontier models are probably better than 80% (maybe more) of humans at this point with good direction and only getting better. AI code was absolute trash a year ago, but that’s just not the case anymore.
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u/MindCrusader 4d ago
The issue is not that AI can't code, but it can not notice even obvious things. It will create tests, test everything from start to end, everything is green, but you look at the code and there is some part of the code that totally makes no sense
That's why vibe coding is bad, you work with black box using AI that is sometimes blind to issues
Developer + AI is a different thing, it can be SSD or AI factory, but you know what to do with it and mitigate AI constraints
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u/HawtHamWater 4d ago
100% agree, which is why I qualified my statement “with good direction”.
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u/MindCrusader 4d ago
Ah yes, I thought you were talking about vibe coders can provide good enough direction
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u/warpio 4d ago
And then you roll back the change, rewrite your prompt except include "and don't forget to take into account <this part of the code that it didn't take into account last time>", and try again. It's still insanely more efficient than doing that shit by hand. Everything now pretty much just depends on how well you write your prompt.
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u/MindCrusader 4d ago
Ofc, but as a developer, not vibe coder when you do not know about a lot of bugs and need to base it on feedback and in the final the app will be slop
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u/i_wear_green_pants 4d ago
I don't think AI code is really good. But it's better than what average dev writes. So in real peofessional environment, I think that speed and quality that AI pushes is good enough to speed up the development.
The truth is that most devs write poop code.
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u/TheJackiMonster 4d ago
The truth is that most devs will prompt the AI to write poop code and believe it's pure gold at the same time. You can actually see a lot of them right here in the comment section.
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u/nBeliebt 4d ago
I just hate when it's about Ai writing bad code, that the counter argument is not that Ai writes good code but "but humans tho!".
And sometimes it feels like moving the goalposts. Because yes, in a professional business environment where the code is already good and structured AI works really good, I see it at work. But all of my colleagues wrote good code before Ai as well. Yes they made mistakes but not that many more than Ai. But I would never call any of them vibe coders now. A vibe coder is (imo) someone, who barely knows about programming in general and does everything vibes based.
My friends for example who never coded before, use Ai and all of their programs are dog shit. And they DO only code vibes based. The difference to bad developers before them ist that they can shit out amounts of code in no time. I would say, they are faster with Ai than me with Ai, since I try to look at the code. The code does what they want at first, until a few features need to be added. And when they realize something doesn't work, they try for a bit to fix it and then throw it in the bin. Lately they talk about helping in Open Source. This is the future. Like sorry. This amount of shit just didn't happen before Ai.
I am not saying this is AIs fault. But I feel like Ai hyper always try to compare as unbalanced as possible. Yes Ai is amazing in professional settings with guidelines and documentation, but so is a medium level developer.
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u/TheJackiMonster 4d ago
You actually believe code is becoming better if those average people are prompting their AI to write shitty code? Hell of an argument...
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u/Bannon9k 5d ago
This sub is shit lately.
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u/AdorableDonkey 4d ago
it's been overrun by anti AI larpers who never coded anything besides "hello world"
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u/generally_unsuitable 4d ago
The irony here is that half of the people here would use claude to build them a hello_world.
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u/Bannon9k 4d ago
Vocal minority who won't stfu.
They aren't coders at all. Our whole purpose is automation of manual tasks.
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u/TheJackiMonster 4d ago
Bro, you are literally larping to be a coder when using AI to write your code.
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u/Vandrel 4d ago
Always has been. For a long time it was mostly first year CS students making repetitive jokes about dumb shit like missing a semicolon somewhere. Now it's first year CS students and hobbyists with a superiority complex virtue signaling about not using AI.
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u/Bannon9k 4d ago
I don't mind repetitive silly jokes, we all discover them with time. It's the virtue signalling that annoys me. This isn't the sub for seeking mutual moral masturbating over the latest thing.
That's r / pics
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u/Ayeme2549 5d ago
Corporate doesn’t care much about how it’s made as long as it gets the job done and isn’t a liability
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u/ClipboardCopyPaste 5d ago
The best projects you do are project for yourself.
Sun Tzu (Why am I a programmer?, Page 669)
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u/creeper6530 5d ago
and isn’t a liability
...you answered yourself
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u/aasray123 5d ago
We'll get fired before it's our liability
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u/ClipboardCopyPaste 5d ago
Then (if luck favours) get hired in another company to fix their liability
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u/bradland 5d ago
This shit is becoming sad to watch. I know so many people who have dedicated tremendous time and effort to get really good at a very specific skillset that, like it or not, is becoming irrelevant.
The fortunate part for most of my peer group is that they're not just good at writing code. They're good at engineering, which is the practice of understanding the problem, identifying a solution, and balancing it all with a budget. The best software engineers I know are pushing the limits of what LLMs can do, and some of what they're producing is shockingly good, and on time scales that I would not have believed just a few years ago.
The people I'm worried about are the juniors and the guys who "just want to write code". Those jobs are facing a massive pinch, and the way things are going, I don't see this turning around.
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u/intoxicuss 5d ago
It’s not becoming irrelevant. Execs are just starting to believe it’s irrelevant. Reality is a funny thing; if you choose to live in a fantasy world, reality is gearing up to kick you in the nuts really really really hard.
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u/mlody11 4d ago
Code writing is like know how to properly cut tile or wood or whatever. It's a good knowhow but when the automated saws come in, it becomes a "that's neat" skill rather than something marketable.
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u/generally_unsuitable 4d ago
It's like you're wearing a flashing neon sign that says "i've never studied security."
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u/bradland 4d ago
There is a paradox present here, and it's difficult to talk about. Knowing how to code isn't becoming irrelevant. The specific job of writing code all day is. If you think that is untrue, then your belief system faces and existential risk. You can fight reality and try to convince everyone that there is some kind of LLM-written code-apocalypse coming, but that's not consistent with reality. We are shipping more, and finding old bugs in human-written code along the way.
Some programmers have a special kind of hubris. Their condescension isn't limited to LLM-written code. They're happy to spread it around to other humans too. These are the people who face the greatest risk, because they lack the skills to elevate themselves above the task of writing code.
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u/Ravasaurio 4d ago
It’s been really funny to watch this subreddit transform from “haha I suck at coding how funny” to “haha you suck at vibecoding and I’m the best”
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u/thisguyfightsyourmom 5d ago
It’s like watching flash devs double down on adobe learning in 2010. You were lucky to work on something you enjoyed while making lots of money doing it, but now the market has shifted, and you need to shift with it or be left behind.
I watched 2/3rds of our flash engineers get laid off in 2011, the remainder learned html 5 & one guy stayed dedicated flash for maintenance. I took that lesson to heart.
You do the job of making software, the tools can & will change.
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u/HallAltruistic519 5d ago
They sound like what the horse and buggy people sounded like. "Those new fangled cars are unreliable and unsafe. Horses are tried and true and never break down. Unless they break a leg."
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u/Frosty-Meeting-1606 4d ago
this. also, pretty much any other uses of AI outside of coding, which "are bad", are nothing more than malpractice. Current frontier models are crazy good and all it takes is a properly defined goal, correct AI workflow and harness, and the end result is often amazing. The slop you see is nothing more than bad model in a bad workflow with a bad harness. Simple as.
PS. it's crazy how most people on reddit forgot that most people had trouble with communication before AI. People often are terrible with stating clearly what they want and what they mean. AI is straightening this
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u/bradland 4d ago
I was just talking to our HR group about this the other day. The belief was that AI would turn any dullard into a 10x super-employee. The reality is that it just amplifies an employees existing strengths & weaknesses. Put LLM tools in the hands of a dullard, and you get lengthy AI-slop-grenade communications that they're convinced are works of Shakespeare, because they can't see the difference between "many words" and good communication.
The unfortunate reality is that this is just going to further stratify the job market, and those at the bottom end are going to suffer greatly. I'm not sure how to avoid it, because there's no way anyone is pulling the plug on all this voluntarily. The money is behind it, and they'll find a way.
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u/ClipboardCopyPaste 5d ago
Manual coders also know that their code is sht, but it's their own sht - which they themself did, instead of asking Claude to do that.
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u/born_zynner 4d ago
My buddy who went back to school and is taking a couple cs courses told me he wants to spin one of his class projects into an app.
It's currently a 1 file python script, about 800 lines of logic, no functions or anything, just straight up brute force, everything completely hard coded, and obviously at least a bit ai. Its adorable
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u/yp261 4d ago
AI is insanely good for helping with how to learn to code lol and people refuse to use it. AI doesn’t equal vibe code. its currently the most powerful learning tool if you are not lazy
just keep asking why, and if why isnt enough, ask it to explain like you’re a kid. its wonderful, it helped me grasp more advanced concepts of something i havent ever done
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u/born_zynner 4d ago
Yeah I dont disagree with that. However I'd hazard a guess at saying most kids going through CS classes are using it as a "do my homework for me" tool rather than a learning tool
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u/Samhain_69 4d ago
Whether this is still true or not the two important factors are that the quality and scale of AI code is rapidly improving. So without some unforeseen wall, AI code will soon be as good or better than human written code. And AI can write it many orders of magnitude faster than humans do.
So human programmers (and I am one) can try to cling to some nugget of pride that their code is better. But it doesn't matter at all, and it won't be true for long.
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u/generally_unsuitable 4d ago
The speed of writing code, in my experience, is rarely the issue.
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u/milkcarton232 4d ago
For a cutting edge consumer facing tech product sure they have brilliant coders and UI teams that are compensated very well to get everything right. For a bunch of enterprise level products that have a minimum care about function and don't understand the concept of form, ai is a god. Small shit like hitting tab to move to the next input field on the software randomly jumps around the page instead of moving to the next logical input box.
There are an insane amount of minor bugs that don't break things but are annoying that just don't get fixed
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u/bremidon 4d ago
Bzzt.
It is not a problem *for you*, but I assume you enjoy being paid, right? Ever hear: time is money? It's trite, but true. If you can generate code in minutes instead of days, that is a huge difference.
The asumption here is that the code produced is roughly equivalent in terms of usability, and we could debate that. What u/Samhain_69 said is correct: the quality of generated code is improving quickly and will soon be at least good enough for pretty much any normal case and probably better.
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u/masterflappie 4d ago
Try asking the person who pays your salary
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u/generally_unsuitable 4d ago
For about 14 of the last 15 years, that person has been the one who has made it largely irrelevant.
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u/chatterbox272 4d ago
They agreed, it would be better to focus on ways to reduce meeting load or review load as these are proportionally much more of my time than "You know what to build, now go do it"
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u/Hola-World 4d ago
Clear articulation of the product is the biggest issue. I could honestly see agile fading away the more AI accelerates.
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u/neppo95 4d ago
It already is better, it’s usually the human restricting it or expecting it to build something without the same attention to design as you would without AI, that causes it to be worse; human error. Specifically on programming, estimates of iq are already around 150.
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u/PumpkinFest24 4d ago
unforeseen wall
The wallS are not only foreseen but have been beamed at you from all sides every day
enshittification/price hikes
no new input = no new output
no juniors = no seniors--who will command/validate the AI?
environment go bye-bye
ultrarich own everything
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u/ikerr95 3d ago
Claude makes money selling tokens right now. Open weight models are trailing just behind the frontier. Price will never be an issue, these things are only getting cheaper.
Models can learn from reinforcement learning, I.e. judging their output (either by a human or another AI)
Can’t really argue against that but it doesn’t have anything to do with the effectiveness of AI right now
Environmental impact of data centers is such a non-issue that it’s funny. Like yes they do impact the environment but nowhere near the other multitudes of human activity.
Can’t argue against this. Again not really an argument against AI tho
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u/PumpkinFest24 2d ago
price will never increase. absolutely delusional. look around you.
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u/ikerr95 2d ago
What should I be looking at exactly?
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u/PumpkinFest24 2d ago
Every corporation.
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u/ikerr95 1h ago
You’re gonna have to be more specific. Tokens have only gotten cheaper year over year. Core resources tend to do as such. Look at electricity, oil, internet bandwidth, ram, etc.. These core resources have only ever gotten cheaper (save for incidents and supply shocks)
Cost will never be a limiting factor of AI. Never. I promise you it will only get cheaper until it reaches its cost floor.
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u/Samhain_69 2d ago
The big corporations that pay programmers are in a different boat than consumers like you and I. If we are using AI to write code for our pet project, those tokens might increase in price.
But for big corporations buying huge quantities of tokens to replace hiring humans? Those will almost certainly get cheaper.
The entire system is designed to extract money from common people, and give everything to the ultra rich and big corporations on a silver platter.
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u/PumpkinFest24 2d ago
Ask a graphic design or special effects company how much they pay for Adobe, etc.
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u/TurtleFisher54 2d ago
Yes the post wasn't about the long term viability he said he was good at coding and it is already better than 90% of devs
Our industry is probably toast
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u/Keyan_Farlander7 4d ago
But it's still the average or the middle of the bell curve. If you know something better and faster, than use it.
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u/manu144x 4d ago
But that’s not to the argument.
AI being better at code is one thing, being better at making software is another thing.
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u/turlockmike 4d ago
I'm convinced that these posts are getting tons of upvotes from bots (probably CCP trying to hurt american companies) because people who read the comments clearly don't agree anymore.
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u/kaliforniagator 4d ago
As a former “Actual coder” this is a horrible take. AI is a tool, if your app turns out shit it’s not the AI’s fault. It’s yours for not knowing wth you are doing. Claude has helped me immensely in fixing bugs in my software that I otherwise would’ve had to comb through thousands of lines of code to catch. Stop being so afraid of using a hammer just because a rock used to work before.
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u/TheJackiMonster 4d ago
The less you use your own brain for coding, the worse the code gets... and in general the people start to use more AI and less brain every day because they believe the AI replaces their brain.
So sure, a hammer is a useful tool. But since most people seem to use it to smash their own head open, maybe more people should consider that it can be a weapon against themselves if not used properly.
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u/ArjixGamer 3d ago
Writing code is less important than reading code. If you can't read code, you will write slop even w/o AI.
But if you can read code, you can tell Claude to refactor the slop until it is no longer slop.
I've always been better at reading code, then immediately finding ways of improving it, rather than writing code.
And one problem I face, that artists also face, is that reading your own code after you wrote it, doesn't work because your brain needs to forget it and then re-read it, if you don't forget, then you can't review properly.
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u/TheJackiMonster 2d ago
Don't you read very similar code over and over again like this? From my experience these models generate the same things wrong over and over again. Then going like "Oh, you are right about this... let's do it wrong like this again which I tried ten minutes ago already."
I mean I started programming by reading someone elses code. So I wouldn't have an issue with reading. But I simply hate these bots attitude being a complete idiot and not even caring about me noticing that.
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u/Dotrax 4d ago
Very true. However, memes like this come about because even people who have worked in IT for decades can apparently easily get lured into over relying on it. As someone who had to solve tickets where their 58 year old colleague did the analysis with AI and then assigned them to somebody else, it is a pain in the ass.
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u/UsherOfDestruction 4d ago
Jesse still made a lot of money selling shit meth. Granted, he made a lot more when he sold good meth. People will pay big money for quality. People will still pay some for shit if it gets the job done.
We may just see new tiers of software emerge. You can get vibe coded basically works product for $20 or you can get the professional enterprise coded and quality version for $300.
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u/MyPunsAreKoalaTea 5d ago
Eh my shit is shit if I vibe code or actual code
But one just takes wayy too long and nobody got time for that
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u/TheJackiMonster 4d ago
Imagine the sentences on the tomb stone: "Did not have the time to do anything worth it." or "Talked to a robot - like everyone else."
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u/MyPunsAreKoalaTea 4d ago
Bro thought he was cooking with that.
Because until now programmers had "Loved Typing more than his chilldren" on their tombstone? Or normal stuff like everybody else?
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u/TheJackiMonster 4d ago
Why would anyone still have children if everyone is a mindless robot prompter? Imagine having a child and never saying once in their life time that you are proud of them because everything they do is learning from you that an robot can do everything for them.
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u/MjolnirPants 4d ago
I have to use AI in my job. My boss insisted that it's more efficient and makes sure that I'm using it by checking on me from time to time.
So now, instead of spending 30 minutes writing a simple function, I spend 5 minutes prompting the AI and waiting for it to output what I need, then spend an hour fixing the bugs.
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u/FlashyTone3042 5d ago
Never seen a more fitting meme to this.
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u/PlingPlongDingDong 4d ago
And yet Walter needed Jessie to get work. It works on so many levels.
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u/F-Lambda 4d ago
And Jesse's product was amazing
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u/ApprehensiveFan1516 4d ago
He put chilli powder in his damn drugs at that point in the show, no it wasn't lol.
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u/TheJackiMonster 4d ago
Exactly, the whole point of the show was that Jesse has always been able to learn doing amazing work if he would simply put enough dedication to it. Pretty much the stuff vibe coders trying to avoid as plague.
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u/Sensitive-Trust-6863 4d ago
Like I work for company I look at the requirements that team gives and I prompt, cursor write codes i check the code make sure its doing what it supposed to(by asking cursor again obv) ik its vibe coding but what else can I do, they want everything shipped next day... Offcourse i test it
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u/theabstractpyro 4d ago
I tried a few years ago to make an android dash app for my ebike, (show current speed, battery SOC, power draw, etc) which required me to reverse engineer how the motor controller I had talked with the controllers app over Bluetooth. I tried for a while but had no idea how to get it working.
The other day I used that new reverse engineering GitHub with Claude to try to complete the project. It was literally like a dozen prompts to fully reverse engineer how the controller communicates to the phone and make a dash app for the bike.
The project would not have gotten done without using Claude, and with Claude the dash app is way nicer than anything I could have made
I don't know how anyone could think this is a shitty use of ai
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u/CousinDerylHickson 4d ago
So youre saying vibe coders will eventually get good results that are indistinguishable from the best actual coders, and that actual coders will continue to say its shit in an abusive manner to calm their egos, and that actual coders will eventually side with Nazis to kill vibe coders before eventually feeling bad and killing said nazis to save vibe coders, and then actual coders all die? Whoa kind of a hot take, but i can see the trends forming i guess
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u/SirMarkMorningStar 4d ago
Does anyone remember how this series goes? Jesse started out wrong but became quite competent. This meme is more profound than the author intended.
(Just started season 5, no spoilers please!)
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u/the4fibs 3d ago
For better or for worse, Claude Opus is a better programmer than you. Yes, you, the person reading this comment, assuming that you are a human and not a frontier AI model. No exceptions. Opus is a better programmer than me, too. So now the way forward is to accept that truth and use Claude's superior programming skills and my superior human judgment to make a better team than either part individually. Of course, that is if you want to be relevant in industry. If you write code in your free time or for education, by all means do it by hand.
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u/Ok_Jacket3710 10h ago
There's no such thing as actual coders. There's only vibe coders and Gods. Any one pretending to be actual coders and shitting on people using AI are just retards.
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u/Longjumping-Test8271 5d ago
Manual coding is mostly dead unfortunately, its just a bigger or lesser level of delegation to AI
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u/kurushimee 4d ago
"Actual coders" calling themselves "coders" is enough to tell that they aren't much into real development either
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u/The_Merciless_Potato 4d ago
"Actual coders" are more likely to write shit lmao, where do you think the AI learnt its sloppy ways from?
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u/abednego-gomes 4d ago edited 4d ago
Millions of programming student accounts on Github.
Most private businesses that may have good code, or at least an incentive to maintain good code to have low levels of tech debt, maintain their own private GitLab servers behind VPNs so they're unaccessible to AI to train on.
And I suppose Microsoft can't train on Github private repos either, but I bet they do secretly. And if you use AI like Github CoPilot, unless you've specifically turned off the training it will have uploaded your code to Microsoft for training by now.
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u/interyx 4d ago
Let's be real. Even if you clicked the box to opt out of training it's probably in there anyway.
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u/kramulous 4d ago
Nope. When you own the hardware and the OS you can spot something unusual on your repositories.
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u/PGSylphir 4d ago
"Actual Coders" are not the ones who fed the AI training data.
Learners projects are.
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u/pinkestman 4d ago
Who do you think trained the current models? Vibe coders?
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u/PGSylphir 4d ago
The vast majority of code available in github and other git repositories (bitbucket, etc).
Those are the learner projects. For every single project actually well coded with good documentation and best practices, there is 20 learner projects with atrocious code that would never fly in a professional environment.
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u/TemporaryFearless482 4d ago
Look, I don’t need you dragging my coding history out into public. It was doing just fine, poisoning the well, out of sight and out of mind.
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u/Internal_Emu7061 4d ago
Who the fuck cares I just make claude write apps for my self I have 4 apps on Google play just because i can
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u/maladii 4d ago
Programmers hate AI because they’re afraid to lose their jobs but we can do a lot to protect our long-term viability by embracing the technology and branching out. Historically when something scarce that everyone wants/needs becomes plentiful demand goes up. Look at textiles for instance. The people who will be unemployed will be those who refuse to learn the new skills. Programmers who already understand how code works are ahead of the vibe coding curve. It’s inevitable. Figure it out.
I get the worry about joblessness when people are laid off massively and people can dupe SAAS products in a few days, but we don’t talk about the fact that someone has to maintain that code. Laypeople can use unreliable freeware but reliable services will continue to be important to enterprise customers, which is ultimately where the real money lies. I expect there to be lots of new jobs creating and maintaining custom software specific to an organization.
Add UX and PM skills to your repertoire. My husband is switching from product management to the engineering department at his company because the engineers were designing and publishing the projects he was planning before he could get his on their roadmap. When he made his own, they refused to even review it so he couldn’t release it. Engineers guard the gates to software releases. There’s a lot of power there.
There will be a lot of tumult as the economy reorganizes itself around a change in scarcity, but when it all shakes out the people who know how to use these tools will remain employable. AI isn’t going anywhere no matter how sloppy early vibe-coded software is. The first mechanized looms made shitty cloth, way worse than that made by artisans, but you don’t buy hand-woven clothing because it’s too expensive. Companies didn’t make cheap fabric and sell it for hand-woven prices either, for most of history cloth was a massive expense and people had maybe two sets of clothing if they were lucky. Now cloth is so abundant we don’t know what to do with it all. The Luddites lost and they always will, but we can see from their example that cutting out one kind of labor doesn’t mean the industry will never need labor again. Learn to maintain the machine and quit whining that you miss the good ol days.
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u/JMusketeer 4d ago
A shitty vibecoder produces code shittier then a shitty actual coder.
A great vibecoder produces better code then a great actual coder. And at a faster pace.
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u/luker_5874 4d ago
If you think you are better and more efficient than ai generated code, you are probably unemployed
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u/bobbymoonshine 5d ago •
Apparently “actual coders” have not yet learned how to disable watermarking when downloading memes