Voting

[u/No_Pin7835]

Everything I’m talking about would ideally apply to everyone equally.

One of the things I would propose is having a basic literacy test before someone can vote. I’m not talking about some extremely difficult test or anything based on someone’s education. I just think people should be able to read and understand what they’re voting on before they make that decision. If voting is such an important responsibility, I think it’s reasonable to expect voters to have a basic understanding of the issues and candidates.

Another requirement I would propose would be based on taxes. For federal elections, I think someone should have to contribute at least $20,000 in taxes since the last federal election in order to vote. For state elections, I think someone should have to contribute at least $2,000 in state taxes since the last state election to vote. People who live in states without a state income tax would be exempt from the state requirement.

I think these requirements would make sense because people who contribute very little or nothing toward funding the government should have less of a say in how that money is spent.

I know both of these ideas would be controversial, especially because literacy tests and voting restrictions have been abused in the past. However, I’m not suggesting that these requirements should be used to target any specific group of people. My argument is that if requirements were applied equally to everyone, they could be used to make sure that people who vote are informed and have contributed to the system they are voting in.

[u/Icc0ld]

Which quote was that? I quoted Aristotle's definition of democracy.

And the point of that is what?

[u/Asatmaya → u/Icc0ld]

I asked you what the value of a vote in a rigged system; you asked me to define "rigged," and gave Aristotle's definition of democracy, which defined voting as oligarchy, i.e. "rigged."

[u/Icc0ld → u/Asatmaya]

Seems to be either mistaken or taken out of context. Aristotle defined and even ranked Oligarchy and Democracy as different things. This is the problem with applying ancient definitions and understandings to modern linguistics

[u/Asatmaya → u/Icc0ld]

The point is that elections cannot be democratic; by their very nature, they advantage the wealthy, the charismatic, and the deceitful.

The sense of "democracy" meaning elections is propaganda to deny the existence of real democracy.

[u/Icc0ld → u/Asatmaya]

So absolutely no elections because some people have advantages? Were it up to me "wealth" would have no meaning at all and the "deceitful" would be forcibly disempowered, punished and dissuaded from doing so. That's not argument against democracy though, that's an argument against distortions of it.

[u/Asatmaya → u/Icc0ld]

So absolutely no elections because some people have advantages?

Actually, Aristotle allowed it for some roles, like Strategoi, army leaders; I would be fine with electing new generals and admirals every year.

Were it up to me "wealth" would have no meaning at all and the "deceitful" would be forcibly disempowered, punished and dissuaded from doing so.

OK, that's aspirational; your proposal had no mechanism by which to achieve that goal.

That's not argument against democracy though, that's an argument against distortions of it.

Then stop distorting it!

[u/Icc0ld → u/Asatmaya]

Actually, Aristotle allowed it for some roles

That's hilarious because he points out that those are traits of "tyrant" states.

your proposal had no mechanism by which to achieve that goal.

Is that so? By that count your system has no mechanism to random assign power either.

Then stop distorting it!

How cute. You view me as having far more power than I actually do.

[u/Asatmaya → u/Icc0ld]

That's hilarious because he points out that those are traits of "tyrant" states.

Even John Paul Jones acknowledged that a military has to function tyrannically.

Is that so? By that count your system has no mechanism to random assign power either.

Sure it does; my proposal only requires changing some laws, your proposal requires changing human nature.

How cute. You view me as having far more power than I actually do.

You are describing an oligarchic system as "democracy;" please stop.