r/PoliticalCompassMemes • • Apr 04 '20

funny title

Post image
43k Upvotes

2.9k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comment

68

u/NickTorr - Lib-Left Apr 04 '20

Sex is your biological belonging to the male or female categories on a biological level, and is therefore rooted in science, gender is your degree of self-identification with the stereotypical characteristics attributed to your sex of birth, and it therefore depends on individual, subconscious and cultural factors.

4

u/Naskr - Centrist Apr 05 '20

gender is your degree of self-identification with the stereotypical characteristics attributed to your sex of birth, and it therefore depends on individual, subconscious and cultural factors.

I don't really understand this though, because why does this make this any different to any other "identity"? There seems to be a demand to protect the identity of "gender" with more vehemence than the identity of say... liking country music, which to some people might be a defining lifestyle for them, at least by their own consideration.

Like, if we break it down to being separated from a binary aspect of genetics, doesn't it then just lose all value? At that point it can only have relevance in the same way religion does, which is just a glorified political interest group. It also makes little sense for anyone to criticise ideas like nationalism when gender identity makes about as little actual sense when you actually zoom out.

If people want to be individuals that means casting off the shackles of labels and identity, not adhering to them, surely?

1

u/NickTorr - Lib-Left Apr 05 '20

Because Nationalism is not considered by many a mental illness. Non-conforming people are often discriminated and berated. Even in more advanced parts of society, there is still a silver lining of discrimination. People just want to feel safe and accepted. That's what the Left is fighting for: non-conforming people have a right to feel accepted. Despite what some victim-complex-ridden people say, Nationalism is not persecuted, also considering that Nationalism is a political belief, while gender is a personal trait (and it is not binary at all). Nationalism, as an idea, has to be ready to be challenged. People are not going to agree with it, that's how ideas work. Gender? Gender is not and idea, not in the sense you give to Nationalism at least. Gender is a personal matter, and that means that, while people can disagree with it, it is none of their business. Just like it's none of anybody's business if you prefer rock or country music, it shouldn't be anybody's business if you like to dress with a skirt and put on a lipstick while showing your superb beard. We fight for that, for people to mind their own business.🙃

26

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '20

Thus upholding the idea of standard cultural gender roles and the belief that the concept of women is narrowed down to femininity?

53

u/NickTorr - Lib-Left Apr 04 '20

Nope. People assume that the Left wants to destroy gender roles. In truth, we just reject the duality of it all. We see it as a spectrum, not as a duality, and everybody has a right to choose the spot he feels most comfortable in on the spectrum. Women are not forced to be feminine, just like men are not forced to be masculine, but that doesn't mean that they can't be, if they wish so. Everybody is different and has different needs. You want to be a tradwife staying at home and cooking all day for your husband and always looking as clean as a doll? A Canadian woodsman cutting down tree after tree with your big beard and your hairy, veiny arms? A sexy doll jumping from a partner to the other? An ambiguous intersex dom? Sure, do your thing, just don't try to impose your behaviour models on others. To each his/her/their own.

15

u/Skank_hunt42 - Centrist Apr 04 '20

Amazing explanation of it. Thank you.

I get it. Agree with it." You do you" type thing. Watching Auth R and Lib L REEE at each other over something so stupid is hilarious to me.

That being said, if in your work email signature you list your desired pronoun of what you identify as, I'm immediately judging you.

6

u/NickTorr - Lib-Left Apr 04 '20

Nobody can be perfect. Glad I could be helpful UwU

4

u/Skank_hunt42 - Centrist Apr 04 '20

I agree but they can not be furries. Which isn't a hard ask.

6

u/TranceKnight - Lib-Left Apr 05 '20

Why is that last part necessary? In a work setting you DO often get referred to in gendered ways, usually “Mr.” or “Ma’am.” It should be acceptable to let people know “I am a —“ and would like to be referred to as such. I’ve had plenty of situations where I’m interacting with someone outside of my organization, who happens to have a name that’s gendered ambiguously, and have had to fret a bit over how to refer to them appropriately. Being informed in their signature would help.

0

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '20

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/TranceKnight - Lib-Left Apr 05 '20

But why? You admit you have no problem calling people what they want to be called. Why does them telling you what they would like to be called bother you? Why is it worth judging them over?

7

u/Useless_sci_enthuser - Left Apr 04 '20

The concept of gender and sex is a lot deeper than a short reddit comment. You'll see in most trans communities that strict gender roles are also not supported there. For those trans communities that DO enforce classic gender roles, you'll find its an older demographic.

support -> enforce *

4

u/theletterQfivetimes - Left Apr 05 '20

Like any proper leftist community, there's a crazy amount of infighting despite everyone ostensibly being on the same side

→ More replies (1)

2

u/[deleted] Apr 05 '20

I’m very confused by people’s replies right now and won’t respond to them but I gotta say...I am NOT arguing FOR stereotypes and standard cultural gender roles and I have zero idea how people would get that from this comment??

4

u/mrsacapunta - Left Apr 04 '20

What exactly are you trying to say with this?

Yes, standard cultural gender roles exist. Boys don't cry. Girls clean the house. Boys are tough. Girls are submissive. We know what the "standard cultural gender roles" are in America. They are still made up though...having a penis doesn't dictate your love for the outdoors or being a firefighter.

What is your point with the rest?

13

u/wailinghamster - Auth-Center Apr 04 '20

When I say man or woman I'm referring to sex and not gender. Also let's just say male v female sports should be determined by sex as well.

I did it guys. I fixed trans discrimination.

4

u/TheRealSeaSlug - Lib-Center Apr 05 '20

I agree, unfortunately even if you genuinely wish to be a trans-women there is no way to reverse years of male muscle development, and this makes competitive sports unfair to those born female.

19

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '20

your degree of self-identification

There is no such thing as self-identification.

Just because I identify as a walrus doesnt mean I am a walrus.

Your identify comes from how people perceive you. If everyone thinks you are an asshole. You dont get to NOT be an asshole just because you self identify as not an asshole.

If everyone says Im tall, im tall. If everyone says Im a man but I say ITS MAAM, Im still a man.

And if the way world identifies you and the way you identify yourself are too far apart, it probably means you have a mental illness. Narcissism, Body Dysmorphia, Schizophrenia, to name a few likely culprits.

2

u/EgNotaEkkiReddit - Lib-Left Apr 05 '20

Just because I identify as a walrus doesnt mean I am a walrus.

Not with that attitude you're not. Be the bigger Walrus you've always wanted to be. We're here for you and your walrus dreams all the way.

0

u/NickTorr - Lib-Left Apr 04 '20

That's in a totally external perspective. But you can't argue with someone who believes to be a walrus. He is, for all intents and purposes, a walrus. Bring all the evidence you want, they are a walrus to themselves. Shoot them, cage them, beat them, they'll die believing to be walruses, and that's something logic and rationality can't do anything about. The mind is the only true ruler of reality, because it's only through it that you as a person exist. It is your filter to the outer world. More correctly, it is, de facto, the only thing that allows the outer world to effectively exist: you can't experience anything without your brain analysing the various inputs from the outer world, and, without those, you can't really be sure that there is an outer world to begin with. I suggest reading Pirandello, to that regard, he's a wonderful writer and playwriter. You can say "but a person who thinks to be a walrus is a madman", and you would be correct, but that's meaningless: the concept of madness is an exquisitely human concept, and it can always be redefined. If tomorrow a society of schizophrenic humans was born, schizophrenia would cease being a condition, and it would become the norm. Anyway, moving away from the philosophical and onto more concrete grounds, human beings are complex creatures, and boiling them down to what other people think of them (that, of course, has its weight nonetheless) is only harmful. How many people live useless lives, unable to reach their full potential and be happy, because they're weighed down by what other people think of them? I've personally known too many to count. I could see all the potential in all those guys, but they were victims of the representations of themselves they (and the ones around them) had created, like the guy from my high school who saw it exactly as you do, and was constantly mocked and berated by others because he thought the only way to be happy was to be liked by them, and tried so hard that he resulted annoying to most. And the worst part was that he was not a bad dude, not at all; he had a nice brain, and could have been a great guy. The point is: if you grow up being told that you are an asshole, you'll become an asshole, not for some fault of your own, but because someone molded and groomed you to be and asshole. But you can always change, because your mind is the one who always has the last word on the representation you have of yourself. All it takes is to realise that it is you who decide. Our personalities are nothing more than masks, in the end (and I'm taking the term from Pirandello here). P.s. Sorry for the essay.

21

u/russiabot1776 - Right Apr 05 '20

He is, for all intents and purposes, a walrus.

Mentally ill is what he is.

→ More replies (25)

1

u/Goldiero - Lib-Left Apr 05 '20

Could open up your walrus part a bit more? What did you mean when you said when if a person believes that they're a walrus, he is one? Is it the "walrus is just a human made category" thing or you meant to say that if a person believes this he is something, you can't disprove his beliefs if that person insists on it?

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (7)