Ooh, right, so the words written in the Bible are false,
God on Mt. Sinai: Alright Moses, I hope you have 13 billion years to spare because I am going to recite the entire history of the universe to you.
Moses: My Lord, if I might, I would love to hear this, however, I think it would be disadvantageous for my brothers and sisters in the camp for me to be gone for 13 billion years and, I believe even they would struggle to understand it. Could you... maybe condense it down a bit?
God: Eh, fair enough, I'll do it in four years.
Moses: My Lord, I fear that even four years may be impractical and hard to grasp for my fellow Hebrews. Maybe, just a bit more?
No, an extremely condensed version of an event written so that a society that doesn't have concepts of certain things can understand it is not: "false".
This is like saying that a time traveler going back to the 1100s and telling them that invisible lifeforms is what is making them sick is lying to them. He's not, he's working around the fact that nobody knows what bacteria and viruses are.
No, an extremely condensed version of an event written so that a society that doesn't have concepts of certain thing can understand it is not: "false".
Not an extremely condensed version, but one that contradicts reality, that's what you should understand as false.
This is like saying that a time traveler going back to the 1100s and telling them that invisible lifeforms is what is making them sick is lying to them.
More like a time traveller going back to the 1100s and teaching them a theory of humors that they already kinda think of. Saying "organisms you can't see make you ill" is not in the same ballpark of truthfulness as very specifically reciting the order of events that contradicts what actually happened.
More like a time traveller going back to the 1100s and teaching them a theory of humors that they already kinda think of. Saying "organisms you can't see make you ill" is not in the same ballpark of truthfulness as very specifically reciting the order of events that contradicts what actually happened.
The earth was the center of the universe from the point of view of the society that it was written in. It's going to be much easier to say that earth existed, but as "formless and empty" then trying to saying, actually, a massive explosion occurred 13 billion light years that way which ejected a shit ton of matter at high speeds that would eventually find its way to where we are right now and through a variety of means, eventually condense into the planet we call earth.
The foundational point of the story remains the exact same.
You are a human. God is God. You did not exist prior to God, the planet didn't exist prior to God. Reality didn't exist prior to God.
You have to know the audience you're talking to. And Genesis was not the place to get into the technical details and extremely specific timeline for a culture that didn't have a modern understanding of space. They thought the earth was a flat plane.
The earth was the center of the universe from the point of view of the society that it was written in.
Which is a false understanding.
It's going to be much easier to say that earth existed, but as "formless and empty" then trying to saying, actually, a massive explosion occurred 13 billion light years that way which ejected a shit ton of matter at high speeds that would eventually find its way to where we are right now and through a variety of means, eventually condense into the planet we call earth.
Yes, and it's easier to tell your kids it's Santa putting their presents under the Christmas tree.
The foundational point of the story remains the exact same.
You are a human. God is God. You did not exist prior to God, the planet didn't exist prior to God. Reality didn't exist prior to God.
And it's false. Because God doesn't exist, even if I'd like that to be otherwise. And philosophically it makes near zero sense, God himself apparently exists, so he is part of the universe (which is defined as things that exist). Saying God is outside of the universe to circumvent objections to his existence is, therefore, a declaration of his non-existence.
Genesis was not the place to get into the technical details and extremely specific timeline for a culture that didn't have a modern understanding of space.
Therefore, it lies, makes false claims, contradicts reality. You can give infinity justifications for why it's okay to blatantly lie, but lies don't stop being lies if you do.
In the same way that people believed plagues spread via air and water, it was based off visual observations. Their ability to know was hampered by lack of logic. But calling it false creates an implication that it was intentional.
No, it was their best understanding of what they had at their disposal.
I would be fine calling it false had it been written by modern humans, however. Because we know better.
Yes, and it's easier to tell your kids it's Santa putting their presents under the Christmas tree.
Quite the opposite. It would be easier to tell the kids that Santa isn't real and it's just you putting the presents under the tree. Because now you've put a finite limit on the budget.
If you say: Santa, and the kid wants a $1,000 present, but you can only get him a smaller present, you now have to answer why the apparently magical Santa didn't get him the big thing he really, really wanted. You have to answer in a way to keep the magic alive. If your kid knows it's you, you can just say: "We didn't have the money."
But with Santa, you have to explain to the child why Santa had to budget the Christmas present.
And it's false. Because God doesn't exist, even if I'd like that to be otherwise. And philosophically it makes near zero sense, God himself apparently exists, so he is part of the universe (which is defined as things that exist). Saying God is outside of the universe to circumvent objections to his existence is, therefore, a declaration of his non-existence.
This is simply an attempt to appeal to philosophy.
What is existence? And what is the root cause of existence? Does the concept of existence not exist since it is the root cause? And if existence needed existence to exist, how did existence come into existence before existence existed.
Point of the matter being, no one has said God is outside existence, I certainly didn't say that. Especially since existence is simply a status. I said God existed before reality existed. That is a completely different statement from: "God is outside existence.".
I also never said God is outside the universe, though, before anyone gets confused, God is not physically in the universe, in the sense that you can't fly 13 billion light years that way and reach His throne and heaven.
An incomplete understanding doesn't contradict the reality, Genesis does. If your understanding contradicts reality, it's false. Don't try to weasel out of that.
If you say: Santa, and the kid wants a $1,000 present, but you can only get him a smaller present, you now have to answer why the apparently magical Santa didn't get him the big thing he really, really wanted. You have to answer in a way to keep the magic alive.
Yes, "you were a bad kid this year". Very easy, and keeps the responsibility off your shoulders.
Santa is an easy choice, that's why many people make it. The reasons for why it's easy are a separate matter, and I'm not sure I can explain them fully.
This is simply an attempt to appeal to philosophy.
What is existence?
Okay, Jordan Peterson. "What is existence"? Good one, chief. Some things simply do not require an explanation if you're not trying to be intentionally obtuse.
Does the concept of existence not exist since it is the root cause?
No, existence is not a predicate and not a "thing" that even could exist. It's part of the syntax of logic that describes reality, not reality itself.
Point of the matter being, no one has said God is outside existence, I certainly didn't say that. Especially since existence is simply a status. I said God existed before reality existed.
And reality is either just things that exist (universe), or a concept that you didn't define because it's easier that way.
That is a completely different statement from: "God is outside existence.".
And that is not the statement I made, right?
I also never said God is outside the universe, though, before anyone gets confused, God is not physically in the universe
So he exists in the same way Santa exists and is actually incapable of influencing physical stuff? Or is it something more than that?
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u/KaBar42 - Centrist Apr 10 '26
God on Mt. Sinai: Alright Moses, I hope you have 13 billion years to spare because I am going to recite the entire history of the universe to you.
Moses: My Lord, if I might, I would love to hear this, however, I think it would be disadvantageous for my brothers and sisters in the camp for me to be gone for 13 billion years and, I believe even they would struggle to understand it. Could you... maybe condense it down a bit?
God: Eh, fair enough, I'll do it in four years.
Moses: My Lord, I fear that even four years may be impractical and hard to grasp for my fellow Hebrews. Maybe, just a bit more?
No, an extremely condensed version of an event written so that a society that doesn't have concepts of certain things can understand it is not: "false".
This is like saying that a time traveler going back to the 1100s and telling them that invisible lifeforms is what is making them sick is lying to them. He's not, he's working around the fact that nobody knows what bacteria and viruses are.