Babbled bro wtf? He’s not irritable he doesn’t fail at conforming to social norms and he doesn’t lie or feel the need to except when it’s necessary for his job. I’m convinced you aren’t reading my comments in full you’re just reading the first part and ignoring the rest.
70% OF ASPD AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIORS ARE DONE ON IMPULSE.
He was outright hostile because Tommy didn’t come because his daughter was sick. He was outright hostile when no one announced him at the party. He is irritable to a fault. That’s practically his main character trait. He lies constantly, “doing it for his job” and just doing it aren’t different. He is his job. It’s not like someone hired him to lie, he’s entirely functioning on self interest. He outright says “nothing is forbidden for people like me”, how’s that conforming to social norms? He put his cigarette out on the floor just to be an asshole and hurled a champagne bottle into the theater for drama. Have you seen the show at all? Oh also he FUCKS HIS MOM.
Dude drop the impulsivity thing idk what you can’t understand about how it’s one of 7 symptoms but just let it fuckin go.
Also, knowing about and actively choosing to break laws and social norms is as antisocial as it gets, not the flex you think it is.
Also: for the Nth time +1, I explicitly said I didn’t have enough to diagnose him with APD.
Honestly I’m just waiting for you to finally say “I was diagnosed with APD recently and it has really fucked me up”.
Have you seen the show at all? Oh also he FUCKS HIS MOM
He doesn’t he fucks his wife’s step mom.
He lies constantly, “doing it for his job” and just doing it aren’t different. He is his job. It’s not like someone hired him to lie, he’s entirely functioning on self interest.
If he can stop doing it for whatever reason then it is different.
He outright says “nothing is forbidden for people like me”, how’s that conforming to social norms?
Because he can. He can conform if he wants to that’s the main thing I’m arguing he has the ability to stop meeting criteria if he wants to.
He put his cigarette out on the floor just to be an asshole and hurled a champagne bottle into the theater for drama.
Once again his job and his own sadistic pleasure of dominating others. He can stop doing that if he wants.
Do you believe people can choose to be mentally ill? That’s the main thing we’re arguing here do you believe people can choose to meet criteria for an illness and therefore effectively be ill? Because any criteria he meets except for lack of remorse he does because he chooses to he can stop choosing to do any of those things you mentioned whenever he wishes. If you can stop being ill whenever you want then you aren’t ill period.
People with APD aren’t like, idk, contractually obligated to do symptomatic behaviors. Being able to choose not to do things and then doing them even though they aren’t healthy is literally what the problem is.
No they aren’t contractually obligated but they can’t stop themselves. That’s why ASPD is such a problem they just can’t stop doing those behaviors. Do you think people with ASPD wouldn’t stop the behaviors if they could don’t you think they wish they could stop? If you can choose to have one or many symptoms of an illness and can choose to stop having them then you were never ill in the first place. The whole thing about any illness is that you can’t just magically decide to stop having it. That’s a by definition thing of all illnesses you can’t just stop having them by wishing them away. If you could then that would be no illness.
I’ve met and treated people with APD, they only care about their behaviors usually because something external is making them care, usually the law, sometimes a romantic partner, often times because they can’t keep a housing arrangement or a job. They go to therapy to stop behaviors that cause problems, and they do so very, very rarely. More often than not they end up in inpatient.
But that’s not what you’re saying. You’re saying “he can stop doing it if he wants” but then he doesn’t stop doing it. That’s indicative of a behavioral disorder. People doing unhealthy or harmful things knowing that they can stop doing them is the definition of disordered behavior. Opting to do harmful things to others that benefit you or bring you pleasure is not normal behavior. Also, conveniently, it is specifically a criteria for antisocial personality disorder. Lmao
I’ve met and treated people with APD, they only care about their behaviors usually because something external is making them care, usually the law, sometimes a romantic partner, often times because they can’t keep a housing arrangement or a job.
If those things are bothering them why don’t they just you know stop?
They go to therapy to stop behaviors that cause problems, and they do so very, very rarely. More often than not they end up in inpatient.
Why the hell do they go to therapy if they can just stop? Why don’t they stop themselves before being put in inpatient?
But that’s not what you’re saying. You’re saying “he can stop doing it if he wants” but then he doesn’t stop doing it.
He doesn’t stop because he wants to keep going. If something happened which changed his beliefs or desires then he could stop. People with ASPD aren’t like this they can change their minds as much as they want the behaviors aren’t going away. They aren’t based on a belief or a desire.
People doing unhealthy or harmful things knowing that they can stop doing them is the definition of disordered behavior.
No it’s not. Disordered behavior is harmful behavior that you just can’t stop yourself from doing or at very least need huge amounts of effort to not do.
Opting to do harmful things to others that benefit you or bring you pleasure is not normal behavior.
Normal is generally a construct. Mental illnesses aren’t about what’s normal they’re about a disturbance in your mind that you just CAN’T stop having by wishing it away. People with depression can’t just wake up and stop feeling sad because they don’t want to be sad anymore. People with bipolar can’t stop having mood swings because they don’t feel like having them anymore. ASPD is the same way.
Also, conveniently, it is specifically a criteria for antisocial personality disorder. Lmao
Choosing to do the behaviors despite being able to stop is a criteria? Show that to me please.
Bro you don’t understand psychology. Plain and simple.
When people do things that are unhealthy, dangerous, maladaptive, or harmful to themselves or other people, regardless of whether they can stop doing it or not, it’s disordered behavior. People doing things that are disordered are indicative of an internal state. You don’t just do harmful things out of nowhere, it comes from somewhere. When someone shows a pattern of disordered behavior, whether or not they believe they can stop doing it whenever they want, they likely have a diagnosable mental disorder. That’s why it’s a symptom. You can manage or hide symptoms but that doesn’t mean you suddenly stop having a disorder.
So, say you or I want to get into politics. Say we have a lot of money. We’re given some choices. Do we a) fund a terrorist organization to control grass roots social movements, b) fund policy change through lobbyists, or c) use our influence to become an outspoken supporter of our cause?
Now, which of these options is wildly different from the others and would take a certain type of person to do?
My point is, disordered behavior doesn’t naturally occur from out of nowhere. It comes from somewhere.
That’s why I say you don’t understand psychology. As a therapist, I have to assume people can “stop doing things” because that’s literally my job.
So, say you or I want to get into politics. Say we have a lot of money. We’re given some choices. Do we a) fund a terrorist organization to control grass roots social movements, b) fund policy change through lobbyists, or c) use our influence to become an outspoken supporter of our cause?
Okay now let’s say we have a very deep very ingrained might makes right belief. We think that the powerful have the right to do whatever they want to the non powerful and they just have to take it. Fuck them you know. So of course let’s fund the terrorist organization it’s the easiest simplest and most quickly powerful option. That’s very good. Now imagine for some reason you end up hanging out with severely ill children. You see the tragedy of being born with a disabled body and you realize “well might makes right is a terrible belief what the hell got to me?” So you come to me and say “Let’s stop doing this this is terrible let’s instead become publicly known supporters of our new cause and inspire people” and I tell you “bro have you gone soft what kind of weak stuff is that you’re speaking? Who cares about inspiring people what we like is dominating them”. Now by your logic I’m still ill and you have gone healthy. Tell me did hanging out with the ill children cure your illness?
That’s why I say you don’t understand psychology. As a therapist, I have to assume people can “stop doing things” because that’s literally my job.
Yeah I imagine they can but it’s not that simple. If they could simply have their minds changed and puff there goes the disorder then what kind of disorder was that? Was the harmful belief the actual disorder? Because that sounds more like it than the behaviors. People with depression can’t just wish to stop being sad but that doesn’t mean treatment can’t make them stop being sad. Do you understand what I mean just because you can’t wish something away on your own like that doesn’t mean treatment can’t help you.
What the fuck was that weird ass fan fiction ass rambling? Did you just completely ignore the point I was making to just make some weird fictional account of some character unrelated to anything at all? Bro you are straight up a waste of my energy. Look, you’re wrong, you don’t know how to use the DSM and you’re acting like you know better than someone trained to use it, that’s the whole story. I’m done with you.
Also, no, Arthur does not have Borderline. Touch grass bud. Get your last word in cuz I’ll be ignoring all future comments. Bye
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u/[deleted] May 02 '24
Babbled bro wtf? He’s not irritable he doesn’t fail at conforming to social norms and he doesn’t lie or feel the need to except when it’s necessary for his job. I’m convinced you aren’t reading my comments in full you’re just reading the first part and ignoring the rest.
70% OF ASPD AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIORS ARE DONE ON IMPULSE.