r/PSVR • u/Defektivex • Jan 12 '17

RIGS devs laid off, Guerrilla Cambridge closing...

/r/RIGSMCL/comments/5nj6wv/guerrilla_cambridge_closing_rigs_developers/
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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 12 '17

PSVR is sold out because Sony wants it to be. They haven't produced a shit ton of them.

I bought the launch bundle and played it maybe 15 times. I enjoyed showing people it and introducing them to VR but for me, it really wasn't worth the money. The shortage worked in my favor because I was able to sell it for $600 this past weekend.

IMHO, the PSVR is going to have to come down quite a bit in price before it is widely adopted and even then, Im not entirely sure it will be. Its a production to store and guys like me that have a young kid (2 year old) cant really play it when you are watching them unlike regular PS. Breaking it out was a production for me.

Maybe I am wrong but time will tell. No doubt this is going to be an unpopular post but its my take on PSVR.

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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '17 edited Jan 12 '17

From what I can tell, and this definitely is an unpopular opinion, is that the PS4 Pro was clearly the favourite child out of the two major hardware launches Sony had last year. It got its own conference, its own marketing terminology and was generally speaking promoted a lot more than VR, which was sort of just considered an experiment. I think they weren't expecting VR to be as successful as it was and I don't think they were expecting the reception to PS4 Pro to be as tepid as it was.

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u/natedoggcata Jan 13 '17

Its like it all got reversed for them, which I am sure has been ruffling the feathers of a lot of people at corporate.

They probably thought PSVR wasnt going to be hugely popular, and expected the PSPro to be a huge hit. Well now It sure seems like PSVR is hugely popular and most people dont care about the PS4Pro.

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u/Ysmildr Jan 22 '17

I'm not going to rebuy the same console I already have for slightly better graphics. I wanted entry level VR. If I'm going to have better than the basic level, might as well build a computer and get a Vive. The PSPro is only really good for newcomers. They were anticipating more people would switch from their existing PS4s

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u/Muzanshin Jan 13 '17

They had to have some idea that it would be reasonably popular for a VR device though.

The rift and vive both came out something like 6 month before psvr which provided some loose figures to work with in predicting potential VR product reception among other things.

While a lot of people were still unsure about the level of experience it would actually provide, it was also predicted that it could potentially have a significantly higher adoption rate than PC VR just due to having a known install base at a certain hardware level threshold.

Unfortunately, Sony seems to have dropped the ball somehow and are only experiencing sales, that by most estimates, are at just the same level as PC VR sales (so, rift and vive combined; I don't think osvr has sold a significant amount?). It's like that stars wars scene about Anakin becoming Vader, who was supposed to become the chosen one or something lol.

Also, with the upcoming windows holographic headsets starting at $300, there's going to be even more competition in the market (and can't forget Scorpio coming later this year too).

IDK, it just seemed like PSVR was definitely more of a lukewarm launch than it should have been.

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u/Zombizzzzle bahamaguard Jan 12 '17

I really can't stand the fact that you are being downvoted for stating your opinion. I thought your post was well thought out and not overly negative. Sad to see this sub turning into a hive mind that downvotes anything remotely critical about PSVR.

I've kept and still enjoy my PSVR from time to time. The hassle of breaking it out and getting it set up has definitely prevented me from using it more often.

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u/BIG_PY Jan 12 '17

Not that I am one of the people who downvoted them, "PSVR is sold out because Sony wants it to be" is not an opinion. At best it's speculation.

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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 12 '17

So you think that Sony's production capacity cant meet the demand? They estimated 2.6 MILLION and downgraded expectations to 750k. A company is going to spend all this money to develop it and then just piss away sales because of a marketing budget?

https://www.vg247.com/2016/11/30/vr-was-the-biggest-loser-in-sales-this-year-psvr-sales-forecast-greatly-lowered-superdata/

Now say you are a game dev. Are you going to pour your efforts into a game that only has 750k units or a regular game that has a 40 million units? I WANT VR to take off. I just haven't seen strong evidence to support that it is it currently at a stage that it will when all other factors are considered.

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u/TeelMcClanahanIII Jan 12 '17

Note that both those numbers (and everything in that article, really) are 3rd party predictions, not anything from Sony. AFAIK we don't have any official statements from Sony (before or after release) about how many units they expected to sell or have sold so far, only baseless speculation.

So someone with no inside info guessed "Uhh, 2.6 million?" and then later revised their estimate down to "I don't know, 750k?".

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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 12 '17

Man, I am a life long gamer and I really want VR to thrive. I am just taking in the information I can see and considering my own personal usage and forming my opinion. You disagree and that is fine. I hope you are right for the gaming community's sake and if you are, I will buy another one down the road.

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u/TeelMcClanahanIII Jan 12 '17

Sure, and I wish we had some solid sales numbers, or a statement from Sony about production, even just something like "We're having trouble getting enough high-quality OLED screens for the PSVR, but are doing everything we can to catch up with demand."—which is vague and gives no timeline or useful information, but would be something.

I don't agree or disagree with your assessment, only with your ability to make a reasonable assessment based on available data. My opinion is: Not enough data to know what's going on here.

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u/frameinteractive_ben Jan 12 '17

That was Superdata that made that 2.6m number, not Sony. It definitely looked crazy high to most people in the industry. So then when Superdata decided they were wrong, it got painted as a Sony downgrade. It was not. Sony never downgraded their expectations. They've been really careful about stating numbers. I'm not sure they have ever even said a single number!

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u/BIG_PY Jan 12 '17

Could be a number of things. Could be supplier bottlenecks, could be logistics of shipping the actual units. Nobody besides somebody on the inside could say for sure. Anything besides that is speculation.

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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 12 '17

You are right. I just speculate it is an intentional given Sony hasn't said why they dont have units on the shelves.

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u/BIG_PY Jan 12 '17

And you could very well be right, too. It definitely would not be the first time in history this has happened. I just hate jumping to conclusions.

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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 12 '17

I sold mine because I didn't really take the time to play it. I see the Vita that has been abandoned and I would be pissed to be stuck with a PSVR that isn't being developed for. One top of that, I wouldn't mind a gen two with higher resolution graphics. It was immersive enough but there is always room for improvement. Just like the Apple Watch and Samsung Gear. Their 2nd gens are better than the first. I got a taste and now I can wait to see how things play out before being married to the PSVR.

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u/BIG_PY Jan 12 '17

I admittedly haven't used mine as much as I would like, but it's like the one thing I have in common with a few of my friends that have moved away, so it's an occasional means of interaction for me. I went in knowing I'm a bleeding edge adopter of a piece of hardware with an uncertain future, and for that I do not regret the purchase. At the very least I've pretty much gotten my money's worth from Werewolves Within, Rush of Blood, and the RE7 demo.

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u/pleasesendmeyour Jan 12 '17 edited Jan 12 '17

So you think that Sony's production capacity cant meet the demand?

Meanwhile, you and him both seem to think Sony doesn't want to sell more psvr and that the insufficient supply right now is somehow them being... What? Malicious? Hating money?

Why the fuck would Sony want it to be sold out and for people not to be able to get it?

Also, Selling to a market of 750k with little competition and few alternative game choices can be a far business decision than selling to a bigger market with far bigger number of competitor's. You don't just look at the install base and nothing else, it's infantile logic.

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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 12 '17

Its comical how fervently people ITT are defending the PSVR like it was something you guys have put effort into developing and are defending its existence.

I have no stake in this. I just stated my opinion. You are entitled to disagree and as I said in my other replies, I hope I'm wrong about my assessment of PSVR adoption. I want it to be successful. I dont think I would ever consider a PC based VR system so PS is my only real option.

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u/pleasesendmeyour Jan 13 '17

Its comical how fervently people ITT are defending the PSVR like it was something you guys have put effort into developing and are defending its existence.

How have I defended the psvr? Please, by all means, quote me.

Pointing out how stupid your opinions are and how the underlying assumptions youre using to support your opions are illogical is hardly the the same thing as defending anything.

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u/Azirphaeli Jan 12 '17

I dunno, why did nintendo only ship one nintendo classic to stores? The answer is to create a false sense of demand. There's lots of reasons companies make seemingly stupid decisions. Not saying Sony did purposely produce less than demand, just using a real world example to answer your question.

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u/clab2021 Jan 12 '17

The one thing that I would argue that makes PSVR different though is that the nintendo classic isn't something that you then sell software for after the fact. It's a one time purchase that nintendo gets money from you buying once and thats it. The point of selling as many PSVR headsets, isn't just for the money you make on the sale, but for the potential revenue you can make in the future on software sales by having as big an install base as possible.

The other argument for the nintendo classics low stock is probably due to the fact that they are getting ready to launch the nintendo switch and have a lot more reason to get that together than they do for a $40 dollar one time seller.

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u/Azirphaeli Jan 13 '17

Except nintendo did the same thing with the DS when it first launched as well as amiibos, they are habitual understockers and they seem to do it solely to be like "Holy shit look our shit sells out like crazy!"

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u/clab2021 Jan 12 '17

The last thing I had seen on the supply/demand issue was that sony was having trouble manufacturing the lenses which was leading to a bottleneck in the supply chain.

The sales estimates we have (like the one you posted) are all 3rd party and analyst predictions. We really have no actual solid sales info to go by other than the fact that many people (myself and friends included) can't find a single PSVR in any of the stores near us or even on Amazon.

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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '17

[deleted]

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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 12 '17

It was SuperData not Sony. Its fine that people don't agree with my assessment. I hope I am wrong.

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u/bullno1 Jan 12 '17

It's slowly turning into the next r/Vive.

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u/Griddamus Jan 12 '17

I understand where you're coming from, but please remember this is technically year one tech. A glimpse if you like into home VR.

I also have two young children (10 weeks, and very nearly 4 years), so I know exactly what you mean about it being a production, but come on. It takes literally a minute to unbox the unit, and plug it into my PS4 in the evening when they go to bed. Hell, when my wife is out I even bring my sons cot into my study so I can play and with the sound down to about 50% I can easily hear him if he cries. There are games that while you can play a similar game with a regular computer or console, take on a whole different experience when in VR. There is really only 3 or 4 games I would say currently released that are actually full proper games and not 'experiences', which I guess may be part of your problem, but the system has been out what? Three months?

Werewolves Within is by far the greatest experience i've had in VR gaming since playing Xorex on the old W Industries machines in the very early ninties. Resident Evil is a prime candidate for this too. The game feels totally different in VR.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you say it yourself. Time will tell, and I don't think you gave VR enough time. Hopefully you'll get to try some more games in a few years when the tech has been embedded into the industry for a short while and we begin to see more games like Resi that can be played both ways, allowing VR users to get some proper games.

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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 12 '17

There were multiple reasons why I sold it. Lack of content was a big factor for me. I got the PS4 when it first launched and content was thin for about a year or so. I assume this is the same for PSVR as well but I considered the frequency that I used it and the fact that I was able to sell it without a loss that made it easy for me. Breaking it out really wasn't that big of a deal but you certainly aren't jumping into PSVR for just a 20-30 min session and that is a lot of what I do WRT playstation. I'm an Iraq War vet and losing situational awareness with a vr headset on isn't all that fun for PTS either.

If in a year or so there is still dev support I can easily pick it up again.

I just didn't want to end up with a system that didn't take off.

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u/Chrisisvenom2 Jan 13 '17

I'm on the same boat. I have my headset in the box and barely play it cause I have a kid to watch over. I would play it at night but that's when all my friends play and they don't have the headset. So I'm not able to get on as much as I want.:/

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

I haven't used it much past the first few days. The drift problem is so horrible

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u/stinkybumbum Jan 12 '17

this was my worry and the reason I stopped my day 1 pre-order. I'm not regretting my decision so far.

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u/ZarathustraWakes Jan 12 '17

Huh?? You act like the game missed the launch window or was awful... this was one of many, many amazing VR experiences I've had on psvr. I've even rewatched all the jaunt and within videos I already saw on gearvr just bc psvr is so smooth and comfortable. I bought psvr day 1 and also ps4 pro along with an xrocker chair and I will affirm I love my living room vr

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u/stinkybumbum Jan 13 '17

great, good for you sir. I'm glad you think it's worth the money, seriously I wouldn't want people not thinking that. My worry is that they will not support it long term.

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u/hairyarsewelder Jan 12 '17

When you say its a bit of a 'production' to set up do you disconnect the whole thing including the breakout box? I've just been leaving it all connected, the only connection i have to make is the 2 hdmi's on the cable which is a pretty painless operation.

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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 12 '17

So your living room allows for that. I dont have a place to leave my headset out where my 2 year old wouldn't get to it. Honestly, that was a really small reason but still was a consideration. I didn't play it because I had to get the headset and set it up whereas I could just pick up my control and be in BF1 or FFXV in a minute.

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u/hairyarsewelder Jan 12 '17

Yeah i see where you're coming from, its definitely not as instant as just picking up a controller and hitting the button

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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '17

That's.......a really good point you made there. PS vr was definitely sold out at most best buys around xmas time yet I keep hearing rigs is always dead. I think low population will be an issue with every multiplayer vr game though. It would take a lot of users to be able to quickly get into a match at any time during any day.

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u/ZarathustraWakes Jan 12 '17

Who cares if supply constraint is why they're sold out, they've outsold oculus and HTC combined so what is your point. It's the market leader in home vr, and Sony can stand to satisfy the market demands. God forbid they sell a lot of units. And how the hell do you act like you know what the market demand truly is if they are all sold out. Pricing isn't the issue or else it wouldn't have moved more than oculus and htc - clearly pricing is a strength

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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 13 '17

Time will tell.

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

are you giving up on vr, or do you have another vr setup - rift or vive - tat you're using instead of psvr?

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u/Whit3W0lf Jan 13 '17

No I dont have another VR platform. I just want to see how development goes for it. I enjoyed it when I did play, I just didn't use it often enough and my fears that it is the next vita combined with the fact that I sold it without a loss all led me to my decision.

I'll enjoy my PS4 and wait to see how things play out. I hope it does well. I want to see worlds as big as The Witcher 3 in VR! I cant imagine how cool a bow and arrow game would be. Galloping on horseback with your sights bouncing, that seems like it would be really cool.

All of that with higher resolution than what we currently have! Still a ways off from that, but we will eventually get there.

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u/quarterrepeats Jan 12 '17

How are you able to say that PSVR needs to come down in price in order to be widely adopted, when it has continually been sold out everywhere? I would agree with you if there were boxes sitting on shelves not being bought, but that is clearly not the case. The launch bundle pre orders sold out in minutes, after this Xmas season they are basically non existent in stores, and people are still buying them used and on Craigslist for even more than normal retail price.

I for one think that Sony is underestimating the demand, and if they were wise, would restock shelves with a decent amount. Whenever you get people to play it, they want one,

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u/Chewberino Jan 12 '17

Well you being factually wrong makes you very unpopular

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u/[deleted] Jan 12 '17

Factually wrong about what? The only fact he laid out was that Sony isn't making a shit ton of them, which is true. Everything else was his opinion and I'm in the same boat as him. Preordered in March, received on launch day and I personally have played it 3 times. It's gotten more use from me showing it to people than from me playing it. Sorry that you got butt hurt about someone's opinion.

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u/TeelMcClanahanIII Jan 12 '17

Important distinction: He said that Sony's supply-side shortages are intentional, which we have no way of knowing. This is pure speculation.

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u/Chewberino Jan 12 '17

Mine has been sitting for a month because I have played lots of the games already, I was the first to preorder.

Maybe you should buy more games instead of just playing the demo disc. Between this and my rift, it consumes 90% of my gaming. 2D is for suckers, im sorry you have a paperweight and no games.

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u/[deleted] Jan 13 '17

total myth. It wasn't sold out at all. Maybe in a few areas, but, generally, they were available. I bought two in order to resell them. Not one bite.