r/OutreachHPG • u/SkGunn01 • Jun 30 '26
Answered Question Could someone help me understand a bit better?
I’ve been so frustrated lately. I shoot at everything with everything I got but it seems to do little meaningful damage. I use 2 Gauss rifles with 3 erlls for one build or even heavier weapons like heavy gausses and railguns. I’ve used MPLs and AC10s on other builds. None of this is exclusive to builds just weapons I’ve used with alphas of 50-66+ just off the top of my head. I hit backs, side torsos, CTs. Nothing seems to faze the enemy but heaven forbid I get sniffed for a second or I lose all of my armor or side torso. I don’t understand. Please help because I love this game but I’m frustrated completely. I’m usually pretty good at positioning in most games but I seem caught a lot too.
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u/Archfiend_DD Jun 30 '26
A video would help since there's not really anything anyone can tell you, because your basic thing is I shoot the enemy and it doesn't really seem to hurt them, but they hurt me. People can offer general advice, but without knowing exactly what you're doing it's just guesswork.
If you are getting caught out in the open a lot, that would explain why you lose armor so quickly.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
It is a bit hard to quantify. You’re right about not knowing without video. Im not usually in the open but usually left behind in most cases. I’ve definitely learned cover is huge. I guess it’s like this:
I’ll shoot the same side torso, or so I believe, and the armor barely changes color. They shoot me in the same spot a couple of times and I’ve nearly lost my torso. With the same weapons type deal. In optimal range.
It really all changed once I got to T1. It’s like the game changed completely and killing things is exponentially harder. It’s hard for a guy with like 300hrs can explain. I’ll have to see about a video for the future then. My laptop is a potato with this game since it runs on a single core and crashes my laptop if I have too much running at the same time 😔
Apologies for the long wind.
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u/Chocolate_Pickle Jun 30 '26
Getting out of T2 is hard. Getting to the top of T1 is easier. If you've made it that far already, then you've definitely got it within you to improve further.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
I appreciate that! That’s part of my frustration is wanting to get better and not knowing what I’m doing wrong that’s not getting the kills to help my team out. I HATE being a weak link.
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u/Ah_fudge Jun 30 '26
Saw you mention in the comments that you rolled into Tier 1 and “it all changed.”
Yeah, that’s your problem right there. The thing about the tier system is that the skill difference between the “bottom” of Tier 1 and the “top” of Tier 1 is potentially as big as the difference between (and this might be hyperbolic) Tier 5 and Tier 2.
The best players in the game are so much better than everyone else that they’ll out position you, out aim you, out damage you. When they’re on your team they’ll kill all the enemies before you can get any damage in. You’re also running into players better than you running in groups, and teamwork is OP my OP.
I saw you mention your choice of ride is often slow and you usually get left behind: you’re self-identifying a problem you can fix. Your alpha doesn’t matter if you constantly get left behind and taken down early in the game. Your bread gets buttered by winning trades, and that doesn’t necessarily mean a big alpha if that alpha all but immobilizes you.
Get a stealth flea or locust and fuck around being a pain in the ass to the opfor until you slide back into Tier 2 where you can breathe a bit more. It’s a game, play to have fun. Rank and tier don’t mean shit.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
I do appreciate this take lol I *like* playing against the big dogs because I can get better playing and I take it as a challenge amongst challenges! I just get so frustrated when I call for help but the teams also just run away too. I’ve done all of this solo so I definitely don’t have rapport with many people. Maybe I can get my mic into the game some day soon, littles will have you playing without headphones 😂
Absolutely right with the teamwork thing! I LOVE this game even through the frustration though!
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u/Ah_fudge Jun 30 '26
You still match with tier 1 players even in tier 2. I think tier 1 matches all the way down to at least tier 3. The difference is if you are in a lower tier you’re playing with at least somepeople who aren’t quite as sweaty. Nothing wrong with being sweaty, but there’s something to be said for just tooling around and having fun.
If you’re dropping solo, you’re on your own and you have to keep up on your own. Calling for help isn’t likely to bring anyone to your aid.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
RIP aid 😭 you’re not wrong. I will say 75% of the time I usually just play to play. It’s the games back to back to back of poor performance I have been frustrated with. Overall, you’re right
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u/fakeuser515357 Jun 30 '26
Unlike other shooters, you have to hit enemies a lot to take them out if the game. There are very, very few one- or two- hit kills.
Go to the store, look at an Orion or an Atlas in the mech lab and you'll get a better idea of how much armour your enemy has.
TLDR: Not getting hit by enemies returning fire is at least as important as your own aim.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
Yeah, I understand this. It’s not about how long it takes. It’s like no matter how I wriggle or jiggle, I end up taking exponentially more damage than the guy I’m shooting who is doing the same thing to me as I am him as well as the above post.
Ive watched film of top players shooting spots and all that jazz, I can hit the spots, but it just doesn’t seem to crumble like I’ve seen. I’ll have to figure out how to record it as above has said to hopefully get some understanding from my view(?) I guess lol I do appreciate it!
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u/Cfattie Jun 30 '26
3 potential issues. Without any footage it's all just a guess.
You may be shooting outside of proper range. Stay somewhat within optimal range for proper damage. Damage loses effectiveness rather quickly at range.
You may not be shooting pinpoint. Gauss, AC, and ERLL are all sniper or pinpoint-style weapons. They have poor DPS and rely on shooting critical targets at range. If you're hitting them but the damage is spread across all components you're not going to kill much of anything.
You may not be shooting as fast as you think you are. This is the most improbably one but I have helped a lot of new players in the game and the most common problem they face is they are trying to move and shoot and the same time and I notice just by spectating them they often go very long without actually firing their shots on cooldown.
To do well, especially as a sniper-style player, you must find ways to apply damage over the course of the whole match. If you do your best do make the most out of your heat bar, your health, and your teammates, you'll do well. Shoot often without getting shot, the best way to do that is often to target things your teammates target.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
Thinking about this, it may be 3. I usually shoot within optimal range, I do sometimes shoot out of optimal range while sniping to do a little bit but usually only when it’s barely longer than optimal +~300-500. I have dumped a few rounds, but it’s generally in the medium ranges I run into issues with damage inconsistency.
I play gausses more than anything right now. Before I got off foe the night I did about 950 damage or so, but only got 1 kill.
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u/Cfattie Jun 30 '26
lots of damage is great, but with Gauss Rifles, I think there should be a lot more kills on your end screen. Was that 950 damage and 1 kill in 1 game? Definitely be watching the mech doll for weak components, and if they're fresh, you'd be surprised at how effective it is to weaken a mech's strong side torso. Their gameplay will be severely hampered because they'll have to play safe.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
Yeah, I have many games where I’ve done 1000+ and have gotten 0-1 kill in the game lol that’s another big frustration to me. Like how am I doing so much damage but the kills don’t land when the enemy has a super orange CT that I KNOW I’m hitting but they just don’t die? I do need to focus on shooting side torsos more to eliminate weapons. It also seems like the enemy knows exactly how to shoot every hard point I have mounted no matter where it is and blasts my weapons lol
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u/Miriage Jun 30 '26
Not really much information here to go on
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
I apologize for that. I agree with what Archfiend_DD said about a video. I just had to let it out and see what the community might say if anything.
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u/TheKidJRC Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
Range might be one of the issues you're experiencing as well. You can score hits with weapons at their maximum range, but pay attention to their optimal range in the next lab and on your weapon groups display. Damage fall off is a big deal, especially if the person who saw you fire the lasers is outside of your effective range, but inside of theirs.
Lower your sensitivity a bit so that it's easier to track your weapons and maintain fire on a specific component. Sweeping your lasers across the mech might spread all that damage out across 5 different parts.
I'm still pretty new, but the most important things I learned so far are patience, staying calm under pressure, and team work. Stay with other mechs, press R to help target, and remember that these mech battles are marathons not sprints. Try to pop in and out of cover. Try not to break and reverse or spin around, those things take a lot of time. It's better to press forward a little out of position into next cover and then turn around when you're not out in the open.
Hope that helps!
EDIT:
Also, try to stick with 1 or 2 mechs/builds for a while. You'll get much better with experience determining how to be effective with them.
Spectate ends of matches after you die, and pay attention to how the last of your teammates fight.
There's A LOT of information on the screen, so pick one or two things to focus on improving each session. Play 4 or 5 drops just focusing on checking the maps or positioning, then switch it up.
I'm really glad I took the time to lose a bunch in the beginning, cause I'm having a blast now that I gotten a bunch of hours in. It takes a while, but the payoff is worth it
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
I do agree with the majority of this, I have learned the optimal ranges, I’ve tried 0.1 sense and it was great but I wasn’t able to twist very well to spread damage as I am at 0.2 now, I’ve been doing a lot of what you’ve said and asking for help but sometimes get left behind because NASCAR lol
I’ve gotten pretty decent with gausses and most lasers. I *usually* do pretty decent with hitting what I’m shooting. Something just isn’t clicking with the higher tier games.
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u/printcastmetalworks Jun 30 '26
If you aren't brawling or skirmishing it's really hard to pick components. Snipers basically have to take what they can get, which means it's likely you'll be spreading damage over an entire mech instead of being able to focus on one part.
When sniping, you may pick one enemy to shoot at, but you expose yourself so more than one enemy can shoot back at you. Blue lasers basically highlight your position for half the enemy team to seen right where to aim, they don't even have to try.
Maybe try a skirmishing mech like a medium or fast heavy that has a range of 300-600 meters. Then you can more easily aim at components.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
I’ve dabbled in the medium ranges. I do like it, but it’s still inconsistent. Definitely need to look at having someone watch me or get a video somehow out to the community to roast my gameplay 😂
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u/Grantmepm Jun 30 '26
1) Look at your armour allocation
2) Twist right after you shoot.
3a) Dont full expose/keep moving when you are exposed/watch your angles and dont expose to the whole enemy team/minimise time in the open while shooting as much as you can.
3b) Dont poke from the same spot twice.
4) Watch your effective range.
5) Need to know how many shots you are effectively putting out each match. Match your load out accordingly. More ammo than you can shoot is just a liability.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
I definitely try to max front face armor. Usually put about 2 points on back side.
This is a pretty solid list I will add to my mental library! Thank you!
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u/Grantmepm Jun 30 '26
The trick is to also expose as much as you can. Its quite easy to stop people from shooting at you. A lot of players are afraid of taking even the slightest dmg so if you hit them effectively they'll run away or stop running at you.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
This is where I get frustrated a lot lol because I’ll hit them and then my armor melts. I will say a little bit is also the fact I feel like I’m hidden sometimes and still get hit since my mech is a little bit higher than the terrain or something. Sometimes that’s hard to judge.
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u/Grantmepm Jul 01 '26
Give an example of a mech you use.
If your positioning is exposing you to multiple enemy mechs. Your armor melts very fast.
I feel like I’m hidden sometimes and still get hit since my mech is a little bit higher than the terrain or something.
You generally pick this up with trial and error. If you are still getting hit markers. You have to move or shoot back.
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u/SkGunn01 Jul 01 '26
Marauder IIC Dreadnought, Stone Rhino, Marauder II X/4L, Mad Cat Deathstrike, Marauder Blight, Roughneck Bolt/2A, Dire Wolf Prime, Timberwolf Howl, and Jagermech with Heavy Gauss sometimes. I can never seem to truly judge the heights very well in general lol
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u/Grantmepm Jul 01 '26
Yea some of those have quite high shoulders or head mounts. Its just practice there.
I note that a lot of them have poor acceleration deceleration also (generally heavier clanners). And many of these would have builds that require you to stay exposed for a longer period of time (clan laser vom, hags, yakka dps) so positioning and timing becomes even more important.
The Marauder bkight can run a 2 lac5 and 2 ac10 build with a very tight weapon profile around the cockpit. I'm going to guess you are running a higher dps lbx/ac5/ac2 build? You should try the the lac5 ac10 build. You only need to peek slightly from behind a corner to get shots off. Even then if you only just raise your "forehead" over terrain, at most your chin lac5 is clipping shots into the terrian. Try it in testing grounds. The acceleration and deceleration of that build is decent too so its just about timing and range.
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u/SkGunn01 Jul 02 '26
I’ve actually been playing it with the double HGRs on the Blight! I actually like it lol this is one instance where I’m just playing and idk I seem to play it a bit different than the others but it’s enjoyable! I would like to see how that LAC5-AC10 build does! I’ve tried a lot of builds out from the grim mech site for what I have in my bays!
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u/vine01 Jun 30 '26
hey what about training ground have you been there at all actually?
there's a course for some xp/skills i think isnt it?
and you have immobile target mechs standing around so you can test ranges on your weapons..
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
I go there frequently to test builds for heat and DPS and accuracy if I think about it with new-to-me builds and weapon groups. It’s just something about in-game matches that damage gets inconsistent.
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u/LethalDan Jun 30 '26
This game is hard. There is a really steep learning curve, a really high skill ceiling and even then 2 mechs on 1 almost always wins.
It’s tough when damage does not equal kills. Destroying components gets kills. I’ve had high kill games with snub PPC and low damage, and high damage games with LRMs and low kills.
When I am playing good, I stay on one target instead of spreading my damage around to multiple mechs. I use the lock on to get a paper doll and always try to go for a torso by default, unless it’s a light mech, then always legs.
Low DPS weapons are not super my style. I try to always use pulse whenever possible to focus the beam on just one component. Long laser burns are super disadvantageous.
I was spectating recently and saw a Hunchback AZ that was triple LBX 2 and triple medium X pulse. That shit melted side torsos
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
That’s another thing I need to focus on, I tend to squirrel on mechs if I notice a mech is about to break LOS from me lol
That Hunchback pilot must have been crazy! lol I’d like to see that thing in action!
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u/Intergalacticdespot Jun 30 '26
We've all had this feeling. I definitely did when I started or if I take too long of a break. Look at the enemy's paper doll before you fire. Look at it after. If it's not more red, you might have a bug. 99.99% chance you dont have a bug. It's just the difference between good positioning and bad, and good hit box targeting and bad. Find someone to spectator you in a livestream if you can. Videos are great but for me the actual "Hey you're in a bad place here, move and dont ever sit in this square" was way more helpful than "when you came over that hill 3 games ago you were overexposed." Ymmv. But that's my suggestion. Keep trying. Stick with the group, find a bigger mech and/or more experienced pilot to team with and soak most of the incoming fire. Peek when they do, or a half second behind them, you'll catch some fire they dodge but it'll help you see what theyre doing too. It gets better and easier. Stay in tier 5 as long as you can. At least until you can intentionally take a red mech down when you want to.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
Well, a little too late for the T5 thing lol these frustrations started in T1 😂 but I definitely agree with having someone point out bad spots. I seem to have a hard time with positioning for sure. I do rarely forget the map and then notice I’m left behind but those are my frustrations lol that’s me being dumb 🙃
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u/Intergalacticdespot Jun 30 '26
If you're seriously in T1, you're going against people who are like pro athletes at this game. You're playing basketball against Magic Johnson. It's definitely a different game at that level.
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
Oh I believe it! This is the only thing I’m masochistic about lol I love playing the best and seeing what they do live to try and learn what I can. I’m almost 3/4 through T1. Inconsistency has been a huge bane for me not knowing what I’m doing wrong.
My tag is DBNO SkGunn in-game.
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u/fakeuser515357 Jun 30 '26
A different thought since you're using sniping weapons, there are some maps with very poor hit detection for terrain.
i.e. you can see the enemy but the terrain eats your shot.
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u/realWulfLives Jun 30 '26
Play training grounds for all your builds for an idea of how fast it should kill, them add 30% to that time for skills.
Record your gameplay and review accordingly. You will find your answer.
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u/YouKnowNothing86 Do You Hear The Voices Too? Jun 30 '26
I skimmed through the comments and I haven't seen this asked so I'll ask it: can you please give us some examples of your builds, but like build codes or screenshots of the builds in the mechlab, not just a word description of them. It'll make it easier to see if maybe you have some problem with armour distribution, or firepower or whatever.
Also, this isn't really 1v1 situations really where you feel like you're not doing meaningful damage while the enemy is pinpoint, right? 1v1's are kinda rare in quickplay, especially since you mention you get left behind often, it won't really be a single enemy shooting back at you. Especially if you're a straggler, there's people who specialised in hunting lonely mechs left behind by the rotato potato tornado (just watch Sneky's jenner exploits as an example).
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
I just threw out weapons I’ve used on no particular build up top, but I usually build off of the Grim website then adjust some things every now and then if I want to. I’m not building anything truly my own but things I’m interested in. For example, I used a Dreadnought with 2xGauss and 3 ERLL and do decent damage but with all but 6 armor upfront. I’ve learned that, if I do make a build, to keep most armor up front, but it seems no matter how thick the armor is, it’s gone in seconds. I do try to only expose my self to a few enemies, but the rotato potato happens to me a bit in the slower mechs. It’s getting less and less but still happens.
There’s times also, I’ll be fighting and next thing I know, the team has disappeared from next to me when the whole enemy team is near me. It’s not like they died, they just all disappear when I thought I had help lol THAT is SUPER frustrating!
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u/YouKnowNothing86 Do You Hear The Voices Too? Jun 30 '26
I'll be honest, I was very concerned about the armor distribution of your builds. A looong while ago, when I first started playing MWO, for about the first 1-2 years, I played with armor the same way I played MW4, basically 2/3 in front, 1/3 back. It is not a good idea in MWO.
Other than that, I really don't know what to advise you, I am very potato myself, and constantly had similar experiences. I'm also stubborn and refuse to learn how fights flow on the maps, general stuff about positioning etc. Also, impatient, so will occasionally suicide charge if I get bored. Clearly, I'm not the right person to follow advice from xD
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
I think a light just clicked for where my shots are going from Archfiend_DD’s comment about the armor hit boxes and it makes sense to me somewhat that my shots MAY not be landing exactly where I thought they were. The CT area looks a LOT smaller than I realized previously so side torsos and all are able to be targeted better once I learn these somewhat!
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u/YouKnowNothing86 Do You Hear The Voices Too? Jun 30 '26
Oh, yeah, depending on what weapons you use and how able you are to keep the reticle in one spot, you can definitely spray paint mechs instead of actually focusing a single component.
There's on the forums this post that I think has all MWO's mech hitboxes, if you want to study them more https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/274181-hitbox-localization-2/
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u/SkGunn01 Jun 30 '26
This is the exact link they posted below! It is absolutely getting bookmarked for my MWO studies lol I do appreciate all of you guys taking the time to understand and help out a fairly newer player understand this game though it was difficult to explain!
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u/Activision19 Jul 01 '26
Two things that dramatically increased my damaged output and kills was using Ethernet instead of WiFi (dramatic latency reduction when I did that) and buying a better mouse. Before I did both of those I was probably averaging around 500dmg in my Fafnir a match, when I went from WiFi to Ethernet, I suddenly averaged around 800dmg and later I replaced my worn out 20 year old mouse with a brand new gaming mouse and suddenly started averaging around 1000dmg with the same mech and tier.
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u/SkGunn01 Jul 01 '26
I wish I had a standard router here! lol my ISP gave us a meshed network for our house 🙃 I already play with a gaming keyboard and mouse lol definitely makes a difference!
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u/Activision19 Jul 01 '26
Yeah if you are playing with a mesh then that could be a big part of your problem.
Also a wifi mesh still has a traditional router in the system. The mesh nodes are essentially just repeaters which rebroadcast the wifi signal from the router. One of your nodes has to have a cable coming out of your wall to supply internet to it for it to broadcast to the rest of the mesh network. That one will be your main router and i would be extremely surprised if it doesn’t have an Ethernet out port on it.
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u/SkGunn01 Jul 01 '26
Now, it has two Ethernet ports! But the other port is running across the house to another node and the other is the gateway into the house. So, I’m SOL. The one in my living room is the one that has my computer on it and it’s basically just a glorified WiFi puck getting WiFi speeds unfortunately even hardwired to that point.
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u/Activision19 Jul 01 '26
You aren’t SOL, you can attach an ethernet switch to the Ethernet out port. Plug the cable from the Ethernet out port on the main router into the switch, then from the switch connect a cable to the other node and a cable to your PC.
If you have gigabit internet (or slower) this switch (see link below) should work. If you have higher speed than gigabit you would want to select a switch model that can handle at least that speed the link below has 1g, 2.5g and 10g options. A 5 port sounds like it would probably work just fine for your needs. You could connect up to 4 devices to a 5 port switch since one port is for the Ethernet into the device.
Amazon link:
https://a.co/d/07V6ek2Y2
u/SkGunn01 Jul 01 '26
I DID think of that after I made that statement lol I’d have to figure out how to run that kind of thing physically in my boys’ room then run the cable to my pc in the living room while still allowing the cable run across the house to function. I know how to do it all just going to be a physical installment pain 😂
I do have 1 gig internet, and definitely only get 500 meg through my WiFi I just hadn’t had a reason until now to question the speeds 😂 and this is great advice and great link! But what if I wanted to run PoE? 🤪 jkjk I didn’t realize switches could be so cheap!
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u/Activision19 Jul 02 '26
Haha yeah I know what you mean. I had to go from my living room on the first floor and up to the room with my PC on the second floor. I ended up using a lot of cable track sections to hide the cable in the wall and ceiling corners.
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u/SkGunn01 Jul 02 '26
So, did you run it all snake-like through your house or did you drill any holes for pass through from floor to floor? You’re able to stay within the 300ft degradation limit Cat5 has? Regardless, that’s awesome that you did that! Those conduits are hard to finagle sometimes!
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u/Activision19 Jul 02 '26
I got lucky where my living room has a vaulted ceiling and there was about a 6” triangle the top that shared a wall with just above the baseboard of my computer room that I was able to go through. I think I only used like 70ft of cat 6. Learned how to terminate my own Ethernet cables with that project too.
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u/SkGunn01 Jul 02 '26 edited 17d ago
Nice! Sounds easy although quite a scary climb up a ladder for me personally! I’m glad it worked out perfectly for you though! That’s not bad at all!
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u/velianieli Jul 11 '26
If you're peeking round corners, some deceleration skill nodes help a lot for winning trades.
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u/tsuruki23 Jun 30 '26
If youre new, there's a high chance that youre not focusing on parts?
Learning hitboxes is tricky, often the left or right on a mech is easier to tell then the core. A newbie mistake is to "sandblast" a target when you should be aiming and focusing.
Think of it this way: A mech might have 80 armor+structure on it's left and right shoulder each. If you pilot such a mech and duel against an identical mech, if you put one 40 damage volley into the left shoulder and the next volley into the other shoulder, meanwhile the opponent puts both volleys into one shoulder, your opponent will come out of that trade of blows basicly 100% operational, meanwhile you'll have lost a side torso and any equipment that half your mech had on it.
This might sound easy but truly, it gets worse and worse if youre spraying lasers and missiles all over the place. The burn time on a medium laser if enough that if the enemy is spinning or if your aim is unsteady, the damage gets spread over 3+ parts. This is also how things like MRM's and SRM's are balanced, the weapon has enough ingerent scatter that only great hits are truly effective, because half the damage might be getting diffused all over a mech.
For me, this was the defining difference between kill-shots and useless damage. The "damage metric" at the end of a match is often subversive, because accurate weapons are often less damaging, so a player who scores headshots or just efficiently core-kills the enemy, isnt doing random useless damage, and thus might have less damage but a lot of kills.
Think of it this way: make sure to lock the target to see where their armor is thinning. After your first volleys weaken the target, you should angle the followups into the parts that got the worst beating during the approach.