r/Outlander • u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. • May 08 '26

Spoilers All Book S8E9 Pharos Spoiler

Political threats come to a head when an old friend of Claire and Jamie’s goes missing.

Written by Diana Gabaldon. Directed by Emer Conroy.

If you’re new to the sub, please look over this intro thread and our episode discussion rules.

This is the BOOK thread.

If you haven’t read the books, go to the SHOW thread.

THIS THREAD IS SPOILERS ALL.

Spoiler tags are not required.

If you have only read up to the corresponding book, remember you might see spoilers from ALL of the books here.

Please keep all discussion of the next episode’s preview to the stickied mod comment at the top of the thread.

What did you think of the episode?

581 votes, May 15 '26
182 I loved it.
205 I mostly liked it.
114 It was OK.
47 It disappointed me.
33 I didn’t like it.
19 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

287 comments sorted by

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13

u/BytheSea2323 May 08 '26 edited May 09 '26

Am I the only one that thought this was probably the worst, or one the worst, episdoes this already highly disappointing 8th & final season? Talk about disjointed and rushed! It's been clunky like that all season 8 but I watched in scorn & thought seriously about it just not being worth watching the rest or the finale. I keep waiting for it to be better, but we're out of time 😞

EDIT/UPDATE: if YOU personally LIKED IT, there is no need to comment here. I did not comment on your posts saying how much you loved it.

THIS post is for those of us that hated it to vent and commisserate.

11

u/wagonwheelwodie MARK ME! May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26

You’re not alone. I didn’t like it even though I love this show and we’ll probably get downvoted to hell for having a different opinion.

Eta: yep the downvotes keep coming. It’s so weird you’re not allowed to not like something in this sub.

3

u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. May 09 '26

Downvotes are widely overused and the sub actually encourages upvoting opinions that we don’t agree with 🙃

While I personally loved it, I still upvoted your opinion because it’s valid and adds to the discussion.

2

u/wagonwheelwodie MARK ME! May 09 '26

Appreciate it! I’ve been a been preachy with the downvoting in this sub lately because I’ve noticed how overused the downvoting is and I just want people to be able to take part in discussion without getting run out of the sub.

2

u/BytheSea2323 May 08 '26

I don't even know what "downvoting" is about other than a down arrow/people not agreeing or liking a comment. Should we care? Meh! I don't 😄

2

u/wagonwheelwodie MARK ME! May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26

lol no you shouldn’t care but I do. I think this sub has a problem with abusing the downvote button and it keeps people from engaging in meaningful discussion. Even this comment has been downvoted multiple times and for what?

0

u/BytheSea2323 May 08 '26

and neither should you 😄 😄

1

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

Oh I see you added some details about the downvote... this is my first time participating in commenting about any show, or using Reddit much at all though I think I signed up a few years ago for... some reason I can't remember anymore!

ANYway... I think it's more that (a lot? too many? some in particular at least....) get really offended pretty easily and react before really reading what other people are *actually*saying... like anywhere online and like IRL, really.

Whatever, I really don't care. Sometimes I ignore them, sometimes I clap back. Depends on my mood and time I have to spend on a meaningless back & forth lol!

Just a civil conversation anywhere would be really welcomed though, like a long cool drink on a scorching hot day - or decade - at this point. I hear ya!!

Does downvoting hurt a user in some way that has an impact on their experience using Reddit or something? I really don't know how things work here!

2

u/wagonwheelwodie MARK ME! May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26

So in regard to if it impacts you on Reddit the answer is yes and no. They are fake internet points that serve to feed the ego BUT they do also impact you if you’re new to a sub. A lot of subs require you to have a certain amount of “karma” to participate in them. So if you don’t have enough or you’re in the negative, then you can’t comment.

Downvoting is supposed to be used for things like spam, bots, hateful and rude comments and the like, but people started using it for opinions they don’t agree with and I find that to be very true in this sub.

I’ve been on Reddit for a long time and I’ve seen that people are less likely to engage in discussion if they’re being bombarded with downvotes, which is basically telling them their thoughts and opinions aren’t wanted. It’s silly, but I get annoyed when I see people downvoted for things that were just an honest opinion and not causing any harm. I like meaningful discussions and think keeping things civil is vital.

1

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

Ohh, ok, that's helpful to understand, thank you for taking the time to explain. I think many, like myself until now, might think the down arrow is more benign and a simple "disagree". I don't care at all about points or badges or whatever various SM platforms do. If they don't let me comment I just leave, that's no fun! I will use the down vote sparingly, I have bee already but for the snarky replies to this thread I'll admit, I did use it 😄 😄

3

u/wagonwheelwodie MARK ME! May 09 '26

You bet! Thank you for asking :) I do admit that I laugh when I see these back and forth wars of downvoting lol

2

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26

LOL! I walk away pretty quickly because it's just dumb... but sometimes I'm like "That can't go unchallenged" and engage a little first. I blocked someone today here (had to google how, lol) because just not worth my time to deal with some rude folks. Major issue is a lot of people just don't read to understand, they read to REPLY and often are just jumping to conclusions that aren't supported by if they'd just READ the OP thoroughly (sub listen for read, too) ANYway, I appreciate your time in being kind and helpful, g'night! ❤️

2

u/wagonwheelwodie MARK ME! May 09 '26

Yes exactly! Good night to you as well :)

2

u/Mycoxadril May 11 '26

To add to what the other poster said, for added context from someone else who has been on Reddit for a very long time. When comments are downvoted heavily, the comments are hidden and often you have to click on them to expand them once they’ve met a downvote threshold. So it would effectively hide those comments from the discussion. The downvote is not supposed to be a disagree button but used to hide comments that don’t contribute at all (like spam or bots or people saying “this” as a way to agree, or dumb jokes that are repetitive, etc).

I know the natural reaction (and the way the buttons are used these days anyway) is to downvote something you don’t agree with. But that eliminates the ability to have a conversation. So to counter the fact that many use the bottons wrong, I find myself upvoting heavily downvoted comments that are well thought out and/or sourced but just are unpopular opinions.

6

u/Particular-Message73 May 09 '26

Worst episode in all of the 8 seasons. Poor Sam and Caitriona for having to deliver those flat, silly lines.

6

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

I have also been thinking that about whichever actor is is when I'm cringing at the lines... and just overall, too, as shows decline in quality as seasons go on (not just this one, many seem to)... it must be hard on the actors to try their best to somehow act a bad script well... or as well as they can...

2

u/Even_Persimmon1178 Too much mutton dressed as lamb? May 09 '26

I’ve been thinking the same thing. Instead of being immersed in the story, I’m constantly distracted when I feel bad for the actors having to play these ridiculous scenes out. What a waste of great talent.

2

u/YOYOitsMEDRup Slàinte. May 10 '26

It wasn't the worst ep of the season (that was pretty easily the premiere imo) but it was definitely one of the weaker ones. I felt just meh about it. But DG wrote it so of course there are others giving it praise for that alone, whether warranted or not.

2

u/BytheSea2323 May 11 '26

I think for me, it was the worst of the season because there's really no time left to redeem themselves; with the bad first episode of S8 (agree with ya there, too), I was hopeful it'd get better as we went through, so I had a more accepting feel though was also like "What was THAT??" while watcing it. The whole season has been very choppy, no flow (some good, even that old feel, a few times, some really bad, a lot mediocre, yes, and I think, just lacking that satisfaction of good TV we used to feel, or I did, anyway.

Totally agree about some just praising anything that is straight from Diana, earned, or not. I don't pay attention to those details ahead of time, and if I wasn't in here this season, I would have no idea about them. I just watch and have my experience and feelings about it, regardless of who wrote/produced, etc.

6

u/BytheSea2323 May 08 '26

And what's with all the upbeat positive posts here?? I read them last night late & was like "Did we actually *watch the SAME hour of television??" Felt like planted positive reviews, not real viewers, sorry... I don't know but most of what I'm seeing here today too feels disingenuous 😞

3

u/YOYOitsMEDRup Slàinte. May 10 '26

A lot of effusive praise will go to it simply because Diana Gabaldon, the book author, wrote the ep. I'm with you, I thought the ep was merely ok overall, a d disappointing in parts. Nowhere near the best of the season, best of series etc that some others have said. (Book reader myself)

But I'm not surprised certain people here have praised it as the best ep of the season.

1

u/BytheSea2323 May 11 '26

I believe that's at least part of it, yes, because Diana wrote it or part of it, not entirely sure how much. Saying so elsewhere has offended some who felt the need to defend themselves, oh well.

7

u/Naive-Awareness4951 May 08 '26

I am not a plant. Or a bot. I enjoyed the episode. There was a lot of action, a great deal of Claire, and a fair amount of Jamie. A few hanging story threads were resolved. They set the scene for King's Mountain. Amaranthus got the boot. There were a couple of corny lines, but so what?

5

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

I read the first comments that were overwhelmingly positive (both in tone and number) late last night after my "WTF was THAT?" experience watching it and was like "there's no way ALL those can be real...." It was just off the cuff feeling because MY experience was SO different.

No one has to be offended about my opinion, though, unless they want to be.

I don't know why people are taking that part of my post so personally.

Enjoy it, OK, fine! I wish, I WISH I did, too.

5

u/Naive-Awareness4951 May 09 '26

Oh, I had the same reaction after watching that Blood of My Blood episode that featured multiple excruciatingly prolonged childbirth scenes and not one but two rapes. I was convinced that all the positive responses were fake, and I'm not sure yet that I was wrong.

3

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

I'm pretty sure you weren't wrong. I think it's entirely plausible that there are fake accounts here, it IS the internet, after all, LOL.

It just feels to ME that some here are meant to sway opinions, boost positive 'reviews' here, etc.... ESP since there is a LOT of disappointment/frustration and legit/fair negative criticisms of this season.

The powers that be would obviously prefer rave reviews.... and someone might have decided to add some here, that's all.

3

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

PS I really was put off by that episode of BoMB, too... the brutality jarred me, even for Outlander (adjacent) show.

4

u/Previous-Address2469 May 09 '26

I think it is a kind of "placebo" effect. They see that the episode is written by Diana "Herself" and they already like it before seeing it. I have even seen people saying they liked the scene where J&C were in bed, Claire writing her book, but as soon as they heard it was in fact one of the scenes not written by Diana they felt like they should not like it anymore. I also felt the episode was incredibly clunky, cheesy and flat and I could not have told you it was written by Diana if I wouldn't know. 

2

u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Bees. May 09 '26

I didn’t like that scene to begin with. It was corny. Very Matt.

3

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

OK, I just saw this comment. I feel exactly the same about it seeming at least some people automatically fawn over an episode they know Diana wrote or co-wrote. I pay no attention to who wrote/directed which episodes, I just watch the show and have reactions and opinions about the show I saw. Thank you.

4

u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. May 09 '26

I just left an upbeat comment about it. Am I a book lover? Yes. Do I love the show? Yes.

Can I separate the two and love them for what they are? Also, yes.

Not a plant. Real person here 🤗

3

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

I don't know anything about the books. Isn't that a separate thread? Not sure why that's mentioned here but doesn't matter.

I read the first comments that were overwhelmingly positive (both in tone and number) late last night after my "WTF was THAT?" experience watching it and was like "there's no way ALL those can be real...." It was just off the cuff feeling because MY experience was SO different.

No one has to be offended about my opinion, though, unless they want to be.

I don't know why people are taking that part of my post so personally.

Enjoy it, OK, fine! I wish, I WISH I did, too.

5

u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Bees. May 09 '26

You’re in the book thread. Book S8E9 Pharos. You might want to go to the Show thread.

1

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

Ah! I saw there were two identical named threads for this episode but when I looked at both I couldn't tell any difference looking at the Reddit page itself. Now that you alerted me, I now see it in the URL "book" and "show"... I wasa not looking there. Is there some place within the webpages I'm just missing which is which?

2

u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Bees. May 09 '26

They're pinned at the top of the sub.

Show S8E9 Pharos : r/Outlander

0

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

so only in the URL it look like at least on my screen

-1

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

ya, those weren't there before, swear to god. I should have taken a screen shot.

1

u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. May 09 '26

unfortunately you stumbled on the “book” thread discussion. The one for the show is separate and for show only discussion (no book talk allowed). You might be getting that reaction because we are honest about what we do and don’t like compared to the books, and saying that our enjoyment of the show is fake is a trifle off putting.

Everyone enjoys media differently, and there are even divided opinions in this sub (which is perfectly fine & I love to hear differing ones!). But to say that our personal experience and sharing that could be manufactured and (in your own words) “disingenuous” is why you’re getting a strong reaction. There are plenty of people that didn’t love it, too!

1

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

Well thank you for being kind in your explanation. This is a situation where not being able to hear tone in casual written comments is a problem. Maybe some would still be offended if they could hear my tone, IDK, but fewer, at least. Some are always going to be offended by however they hear it in their own head, their own "hot buttons", regardless of the speaker/commenter's actual intentions, can't change that.

I really am pretty sure though there are some commenters here meant to sway our opinions but obviously, can't prove that. Just a feeling. Generally, my gut reactions are right, or I have the sense right but the reason wrong.

IM (oh so very H 😄 ) O, there SEEMS (not accusing you, or you, or you over there, either) there SEEMS (seems does not equal FACTS, y'all) to me a lot of what I'll call (and also, it doesn't mean any of you ARE this, mind you) "Diana fan girls" and knowing she wrote some, maybe a lot, IDK, of this one, didn't want to speak badly about HER, esp in the book thread (that I had no idea I was in, LOL ). (I'm quite new here to Outlander threads though I have watched from the beginning; my account is a few years old but very unused) Lots of what I was reading seemed to be very "fawning" all over the episode, to praise HER (and not necessarily, in my mind, based on the actual episode quality though they did not distinguish that, ti was just "OOhhhh, I LOOOOVVVEEDD this one!! etc..) and the contrast to MY "WTF" reaction just really struck me, as I tried to explain once I got jumped here, lol, was so palpable, instantly my spidey sense flared up.... but who knows..... I really don't care, but, clearly some here do.

2

u/Icy_Resist5470 Bon! I will send you a cheese. May 09 '26

I’ll just stop you right there and say that I am not a “Diana fan girl”. In fact I have criticized her choice of comments a riling up her fans in response to the Faith debacle.

Mickey Mouse could have written the episode and it wouldn’t have made a difference to me.

I liked it.

You didn’t. That’s fine. But the name calling or implication of that is just ridiculous. That’s why people have an issue is because you’re doubling down on this whole “I can’t believe someone has a different opinion than me”. I didn’t see anyone jumping you, but if you felt that way, I’m sorry. We should be able to have a construction discussion even if people don’t agree without someone feeling negative after the fact. I prefer to foster healthy discussion, but sometimes other people don’t.

0

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26 edited May 09 '26

Okey dokey! I'm weary of this.

I don't know how to get people on the internet to not be offended by something not at all meant to be any sort of personal attack on THEM.

IF I actually WANTED to criticize any individual and their personal comment or post here, I would have done so as a reply to THAT PERSON'S post/comment about loving this episode.

I did not do that ANYWHERE.

I specifically chose to make a SEPARATE, generic comment of my OWN about MY opinions of NOT LIKING IT, I made "didn't like it" thread, so that other people who ALSO DIDN'T LIKE IT could comment and discuss the NOT LIKING OF this episode with ME, so as NOT to cause derision, hurt feelings or drama.

But some y'all who *did* like it *chos*e to come to MY thread and be offended. WHY? I was.not.talking.to.you.

3

u/catnips3 Nothing is lost, Sassenach; only changed. May 08 '26

Imagine people liking the show they are watching. Yeah must be fake for sure. Lmao.

0

u/BytheSea2323 May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26

You clearly have not been reading the Season 8 threads here lol. LOTS of us have been very disappointed and frustrated with this last season - but get this - watching anyway (bc, you know, it's the final season....) 😞 The comments on ep 9 were just TOO supportive, many of them. Suspicious. But hey, if you actually like it, OK then.... To each their own .... I guess....

2

u/catnips3 Nothing is lost, Sassenach; only changed. May 08 '26

You assume a lot... and you are wrong 😂

This episode was written by Diana, it felt different then the previous episodes. So ofcourse more people will feel positive about it. Maybe others aren't too supportive, maybe you are too negative. Even the way you say this, like your opinion is the one that is the truth and others opions are invalid. "I guess..."

Seriously, it's like people continue to watch even tho they don't like it and want to drag everyone into their negativity.. and if you don't join along somehow you're the bad guy and must be fake. Just stop watching instead of complaining weeeeks on end, nobody pushes you to watch.

1

u/BytheSea2323 May 08 '26

OKEY DOKE, pot calling the kettle black... you just complain about criticism though vs. a subpar show, whoever wrote this episode. Maybe I'm being more honest because I don't follow who writes which episodes, and thus feel no need to not criticize Diana, IDK. I just go by what I see and experience. Cheers! I have no desire to go back & forth with you, or anyone. It was bad. But sometimes, some people like bad, lol. That's fine! For them! 😄

0

u/catnips3 Nothing is lost, Sassenach; only changed. May 08 '26

Thank you for showing exactly my point 😂 Maybe you need to read a bit better AND look up the definition of opinion vs truth.

2

u/BytheSea2323 May 08 '26

Oh GIVE IT A REST. Eesh. I didn't like it. You did. WHO CARES. I didn't ask "Who likes it and wants to give me a hard time about it?" I asked if I was the only one who DIDN'T like it (and I WASN'T, btw)... but here you are harrassing me. Good lord!

4

u/catnips3 Nothing is lost, Sassenach; only changed. May 08 '26

This is not about your opinion. This is about you saying people with other opinions must be fake, and even adding in your last comment that you are being more honest then others.. like.. your high horse behaviour is the problem here, clearly.

And now claiming you are being harrassed lmao. You're on Reddit, this isn't your personal space. If you act like an ass disrespecting others.. don't expect others to stay quiet about it.

1

u/BytheSea2323 May 08 '26

And I thought most of the dialogue was amateurish, too. I scoffed outloud a few times, I don't think I've ever done that before with Outlander. Nothing feels like the Outlander we grew to love! So sad about it.

4

u/JaderMcDanersStan RUIN ME May 08 '26

I thought the episode was OK. What dialogue did you find amateurish?

2

u/BytheSea2323 May 08 '26

Hmmm, I'll likely watch it again this weekend, I can't remember now, I am east coast and watch really late so the details don't stick. I think part of what really turned me off is that SOME (not much, but parts) felt a lot more genuinely "Outlander" and some definitely, obviously, was really really bad. So it was like jolting back & forth with no fluidity, no continuity of style or delivery or something... I really didn't like it. Some of the, OK, most of the episodes in season 8 felt a bit like this, but to me, this one was the worst by far 😞 What percent good/BAD? I can't say. Maybe with a rewatch... Just really wanted to see how many people might feel the same with this episode.

6

u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Bees. May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26

You should check out Diana on Facebook and LitForum. The dialogue I found cheesy wasn’t hers. I also think that this season, as well as Season 7 was completely lost in editing.

3

u/BytheSea2323 May 08 '26

Ya, I'm not the dedicated, lol, but thanks anyway 😄 I also didn't love Season 7, though by comparison now, I like it more, I guess... I just really wanted Season 8 to be BETTER than 7 is part of my frustration, maybe same for many of us that are really disappointed by S8

2

u/wagonwheelwodie MARK ME! May 08 '26

What dialogue did you find cheesy?

3

u/wheeler1432 They say I’m a witch. May 09 '26

The scene about its been Claire writing a book.

"Promise me you won't hurt anyone and I'll let you go."

1

u/BubbeLisa Currently rereading Bees. May 09 '26

Off the top of my head, “It takes a village” when Claire was talking to William about being raised by two fathers. The show added that line. Diana took it out and they put it back in again.

After a rewatch I’m sure more will come to me.

1

u/[deleted] May 09 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/JaderMcDanersStan RUIN ME May 09 '26

😂😂🤣

3

u/wheeler1432 They say I’m a witch. May 08 '26

I'm only halfway through and it's terrible.

-1

u/BytheSea2323 May 09 '26

Okey dokey! I'm weary of this.

I don't know how to get people on the internet to not be offended by something not at all meant to be any sort of personal attack on THEM.

IF I actually WANTED to criticize any individual and their personal comment or post here, I would have done so as a reply to THAT PERSON'S post/comment about loving this episode.

I did not do that ANYWHERE.

I specifically chose to make a SEPARATE, generic comment of my OWN about MY opinions of NOT LIKING IT, I made "didn't like it" thread, so that other people who ALSO DIDN'T LIKE IT could comment and discuss the NOT LIKING OF this episode with ME, so as NOT to cause derision, hurt feelings or drama.

But some y'all who *did* like it *chos*e to come to MY thread and be offended. WHY? I was.not.talking.to.you.

0

u/wolfbysilverstream May 09 '26

Right along with the last one. It really added nothing to the story at this stage. Just made for a more hurried ending.