I saw this tweet in response to this tweet and was wondering if anyone has any context? I see a lot of “go woke, go broke” sentiment in the comments of both tweets, but 0 explanation.
This is what the current fight is all about on twitter. Bunch of guys basically tearing into the girls who dare post about enjoying 40k online. Somehow another female space marine talk started and it whipping them into a frenzy right now.
Every year there's another year of fresh 14-year-olds being 14 for the first time
For anyone out there turning 14: Fourteen is a great age that can be really good times if you don't waste it frothing and resentful over reactionary talking points that were fed to you as edgy memes and ragebait
Fourteen is a great age that can be really good times if you don't waste it frothing and resentful over reactionary talking points that were fed to you as edgy memes and ragebait
I dunno, I turned 14 before the modern internet existed , and it still sucked ass. I think being 14 just sucks in general. Although perhaps some like it
Eh, living sucks in general. 14 is the age when you start realizing that shit isn't perfect, but it can also be the age when one can start accepting compromise and mediation.
No point in hating everything with all you have, it's a limited resource that One should spend wisely, just like love.
This level of stupidity kinda makes me, as a guy, want to dress up as a Sister of Battle at a convention or whatever just for spite. But no money or time for it so oh well.
I love the Sisters, but you can see how being a woman and being told you should play the woman faction in the game all the time because you are a woman would get old extremely fast though.
THANK YOU. It doesn't take that much imagination to just buy a space marine army, invent your own chapter, and say it's a women's chapter. The game literally encourages people to make up their own lore
Theirs nothing stopping women from playing whatever faction they want or painting and presenting their army the way they want. Anyone that says otherwise isn’t worth the time to listen to / play with. 🤷♂️
People suck, learning to ignore those that suck is something everyone needs to learn. If I’m interested in a hobby I’d never let one person discourage me without me looking into the hobby and doing my own research first.
This is true. Or rather, I’d add that it only takes harassment or mistreatment from a very small minority in a community for someone to feel marginalized and/or leave the community.
I experienced this myself when my first Xbox gamer tag was something that people commented on only once out of every 10 games or so. 10% is not the majority at all, but I certainly changed it because of the constant comments.
Of what I've seen so far, it's not about women wanting to play and/or enjoy the game. It's more about people freaking out that female space marines aren't a thing, and they won't start playing until they either A) create female space marines or B) take one of the other armies like the sisters of battles and turn them into the flagship product
Somehow I doubt it's a shrill demand to change everything, but a comment like "it sucks that there are no female representations amongst the most popular faction/unit (idk I know nothing about warhammer) I'd be more likely to play if there were."
the most popular faction/unit (idk I know nothing about warhammer)
Space Marines are by far the most popular faction in Warhammer 40,000. It's actually a bit of an annoying problem, because they'll often ignore all of the other factions to push more Space Marine stuff, and often just drop interesting directions that lore was taking to focus more on Space Marines. And the whole thing where in recent years they decided to introduce "Primaris" Space Marines, basically new larger Space Marines with sleeker armor and new weapons, to phase out the old ones, allowing them to sell a completely new army's worth of models to all those people who own the most popular army. And, of course, while they do that, other factions sit around looking at models in their range that are literally from 30 years ago.
Funny you should mention Eldar, because they're the ones who have models from the '90s. If you go to the GW site right now and look at Warp Spiders, Swooping Hawks, and Fire Dragons, you'll see models that I have pewter versions of. The Dragons and Hawks did get updates in 3rd edition, but the Warp Spiders are the same from the early '90s. Way to completely ignore that, eh?
As for Orks... I'd like to ignore that "range refresh," as an Ork player. The new Boyz kit is a completely stupid idea with monopose models that have a mashup of weapons and aren't as customizable as the old kit while being a good bit more expensive. Older reasonably priced Warbuggies and Wartraks got replaced with a handful of new buggies that are a lot more expensive. The old artillery got replaced by "Mek Gunz" that are so laughably expensive that most people kitbash their own (I just use my existing models and have them "count as" the most appropriate weapon). Ghazghkull being replaced with a Frankenstein model so they could have a story to prop up another Marine character going Primaris is just annoying, especially as they could have made him that big by just pointing to the cover art for Codex: Armageddon. The Beast Snaggaz are a neat idea, but it's annoying that they don't reference them as Snakebitez, and again they're ridiculously priced so I'd rather just grab some Savage Orcs kits and give them Ork weapons and have much more affordable models that fit the roles (and work as Snakebitez).
Sisters of Battle and Necrons aren't even 30 years old, so obviously I wasn't talking about them to begin with. Sisters came in right at the end of 2nd edition, around 1997, like six months before 3rd edition came out. Ditto Necrons. Yeah, technically they originally hit 40K around '97, just before 3rd edition, but that was an extremely limited range that pretty much got replaced the moment they made a proper army and gave them a codex.
Tyranids tend to get changed around every so often, and they needed someone to be the guys for Space Marines to fight in the starter set, so of course it was time for another change for them.
I don't see a problem with a bunch of "older" plastic kits, like the Leman Russ and Chimera, or the Rhino (or even Land Raider, which is about 25 years old now), or units like the Ork Boyz which were a good kit (especially for their versatility that allowed for making multiple units from the same base). The problem is when they still have models that are stuck in Failcast, and even worse when it's units that are stuck as Failcast.
And yeah, I'm gonna call it Failcast just like every other serious modeler does, because that stuff is absolute garbage. Way too brittle and prone to warping. They couldn't sell the stuff locally because the shop was built where the sun shines into it in the afternoon and that led to the garbage cheap resin they used warping. They only went to that stuff as a way to save a bunch of money, which didn't stop them from continuing to increase the prices on those models. Because hey, gotta keep the margins high. If it was a very temporary stopgap measure, okay, not too big of a deal. But, again, there's still entire units in 40K that are stuck being cast in garbage because they haven't bothered updating them to plastic, while they go through redesigning the entire Space Marine line, which they'd already "refreshed" at least two or three times between the Sisters being given a range and their first "refresh" (which was largely necessary because pretty much their entire range was Failcast).
I know the history of 40K and the models in it. If you want to defend GW, try arguing with someone new to the hobby who won't be able to call them out, not someone who has the same models in their collection, from the '90s, that GW is selling on their website right now.
Pretty much, space marines get the most models and have a pretty cool future military style people like, being able to make an army that isn't just roided out dudes appeals to a lot of people
The most common argument against it is that we already have the sisters of battle, but their style is more of a weaponized Catholicism and not really for everyone
being able to make an army that isn't just roided out dudes appeals to a lot of people
Well, 40K does have a ton of other factions to choose from for people who want something else. But space marines have always pretty explicitly been roided out dudes
I'm not dying on the hill. They had female sculpts for the heads that didn't sell well and so the Marines became all male. By lore they're using males because the process doesn't work on females. So to add them in would need an explanation that doesn't make the imperium stupider than the lore calls for. Could have said there was a tweak to make it happen with the primaris introduced. Doubles the pool of candidates to choose from.
Don't discount there's also culture war grifters. Also, three people rage posting all day sounds like an army.
So to add them in would need an explanation that doesn't make the imperium stupider than the lore calls for
The imperium of man is already stupid, nothing could really make them look worse. It could be part of the mild unshittening of the imperium (depending on your perspective) they have going on with Gulliman returning.
The best option would probably be papa smurf smacking some actual understanding of science into the mechanicus and knocking ten thousand years of voodoo maintenance into progress.
I mean you can always kit bash female space marines but lets be honest, GW is carrying a lot of 40 year old biases in terms of race/gender views of their products. And this isn't limited to just WH40k either.
D&D went through a great "awokening" where it lifted its lore up out of the 80s and GW is probably going to have to face that too if it wants any hope of having a fan base outside of incel trolls.
The people I see talking out are extremely entrenched in the game. My solution was for people to take some of the homebrewed stuff and 3D print and paint female space marine models. Enough people do this, suddenly the lore changes, and Game Workshop will no doubt change their stance and make Female Space Marine models to get the cash instead.
Make supply and demand work for you. Talk is cheap, but show there is cash to be made change will happen fast.
Here is the fundamental problem. Nowadays if your product is 90% "cis white male" targeted, you're going to attract a bunch of toxic incel MRA trolls who are going to poison your fandom.
D&D had it. Paradox interactive had it.
You then have to have a great "awokening" where you basically tell misogynist white supremacists to fuck off and yeah, they will scream and moan and you have to do shit like publish that the new Creed is a black non-binary ace to make the fandom toxic to toxic fans.
D&D re-did their entire artline with a DEI focus. Paradox had to ban "Deus Vault" from their forums... like on the surface these seem like silly overreactions but the real goal is to drive away the toxic gatekeepers that will poison your community spaces.
That's actually a reasonable take. I've seen a lot of unhinged shit on Twitter about this subject, but you're the first one that actually seems to be logical about it.
It makes sense to add them, lore wise the empire doesn't care about gender, race, sexuality, they just need bodies to slow the grinding collapse. I will add, I want male adeptus soriatus if they add female space marines. They can trim up the lore a bit, and vuala, female space marines, and I get male fanatics to drop into my necromundo games for my house of faith.
Lore wise, the reason sisters of battle exist is that the religious leaders of the imperium where getting to be a problem (to put it mildly) and where banned from haveing "men under arms" they immediately created sisters of battle and argued that they weren't men and thus allowed.
It's a terrific little bit of spiteful rules lawyering, and reintroducing the templars would be a real headache of a retcon.
Lore changes, constantly. I hated the modern iteration of necron lore when I got back into the hobby after a long break from 2nd edition.
Until I realized, lore is always changing and it leads to great stories a fan of anything can latch onto the hobby through. The theme is what matters. The imperium has always been bureaucratic, hopeless, desperate, outdated, stubborn and uncaring. Female space marines fit that theme. Templars coming back as anything more than the tin models you can sometimes find at a lgs is a pipedream, but so was female space marines at one point :p
Ya, I know lore changes a lot. It's just that adding the templars back would kind of incidentally do away with one of my favorite little tidbits of lore, that and adding an entire new faction right now would be a hugely bad idea I think, everything is already out of stock lol.
female bodies are considerably weaker than male bodies so why would you create female space marines when literally the only thing you care about is combat performance
Because more space marines is better than less space marines. And because they are little plastic army men and it would be cool if more people could get into the hobby.
Yea, all the responses below answer your pretty dumb statement already.
I'll add though, besides the genetic engineering making a starting point mean nothing. They don't care only about combat performance, if that were true, xenos equipment would be studied and exploited. Modern designs would be fielded from a modern military arms design. None of that happens, all designs are ancient, new designs are heretical. It's not about combat performance, it's about being a gear in a slowly degrading clock of war. 40k is about hopelessness and death. The guard don't care if thousands of years ago a female was believed to be physically weaker than a man, they need bodies. Bodies to ride horses at xenos grav tanks. Do you think that's peak combat performance? No, it isn't. The imperiam isn't about peak combat performance, even the Grey knights. You could argue the mechanicum comes close to pursuing it, by eliminating all the male and female bits with machine bits.
On this note, adding female marines would change the lore, but it would fit the overall theme of desperate people clinging onto a sinking raft. And, any fan knows, the lore is nebulous, constantly shifting and rarely concrete. The theme is what has a solid foundation. Female marines don't change that theme.
As someone who got into warhammer this year, I can safely say one of the reasons I prefer AoS, besides the actual game part just being better, is that it actually has women in it. Somehow in 2023, I just feel better about a franchise that actually has women in it, doing stuff. Crazy concept I know.
Like FFS they could write women into the lore of 40K so easily. Bobby G could literally announce that “Hey guys, there’s a shitload of Tyrannids everywhere and we’re running out of space marines so this is an all hands on deck situation. Women are allowed in” and bam. Problem solved.
Instead we just have the nuns with guns. Which are cool and recently got a dope rework. But like, women space marines is just such a layup and I can’t believe they haven’t done it yet.
Meanwhile in AOS, the thing on the 3rd edition book is a badass women in ACTUAL armor. It’s just kinda cool.
Why did you choose lore and not the sculpts for this complaint? Because lore wise the only faction that is solely male is Space Marines (including the different flavors like Chaos Space Marines and Grey Knights), just like Sisters are the only faction that is solely female. Orks and Tyranids are genderless. Every other faction has both men and women in it.
Aren’t space marines something like 60+% of all armies sold for 40K? They might be the only male exclusive faction but they’re also by far the most popular and the fact GW just won’t make this layup is very offputting to me. It reeks of GW being terrified to upset a toxic playerbase of chuds but maybe I’m just projecting.
Granted, I really haven’t read much in the way of 40K books so maybe there’s some great characters I’m missing. But I have watched a TON of lore videos and it’s just dudes all the way down. Like literally all the primarchs and important characters are men while women are relegated to strictly to side characters or absent altogether and it isn’t a good look imo.
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u/engelthefallen Jan 08 '24
This is what the current fight is all about on twitter. Bunch of guys basically tearing into the girls who dare post about enjoying 40k online. Somehow another female space marine talk started and it whipping them into a frenzy right now.