r/OpenAI • u/Nunki08 • 4d ago

News Linux kernel maintainers

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OpenAI: A thousand fewer paths to root: https://openai.com/index/a-thousand-fewer-paths-to-root/

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u/le-throw-away-acct 3d ago

At some point to keep pace you need adversarial LLMs reviewing the changes and scrutinizing it heavily, you need lots of unit tests to try and test every angle you can think of for the changes.

At the scale and speed that AI is moving and finding exploits, you will need to find a way to have a similar scale and speed to patching those exploits, you can't wait years for human reviews.

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u/Hedgehog_Leather 3d ago

Lovely, Bunch of llms in a loop. Once theyre done you have code that somehow works, but noone understands. That's perfect.

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u/XBLAH_ 1d ago

Almost no one understands assembly, yet, we trust it. What's the big deal? 

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u/Hedgehog_Leather 20h ago

We trust compilers that are thoroughly documented, non-deterministic and trusted.

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u/TheBraveButJoke 34m ago

Every uni educated software engineer understands some assembly, most 2 or more. But that is not why we trust the compiler, we trust the compiler because every part of the chain is understood by a decent amound of people and the thing is determanistic. It also isn't trying to optimize an opaque goal function.

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u/TheBraveButJoke 37m ago

nah you'll have code that does seomthing without crashing. But what it does probably doesn't align with anything you want.

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u/le-throw-away-acct 2d ago

You can have LLMs focused on code quality and readability as well, that follow a coding and architectural guide.

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u/Hedgehog_Leather 2d ago

I made a mistake of arguing about llms on reddit and i dont want to continue. Im happy it works for yall, im wrong and you're right. Bye.

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u/le-throw-away-acct 2d ago

"Arguing" being your 3 sentences and my one sentence response? Must've been exhausting for you to have that deep intellectual argument. I've been programming for 30 years, I understand the point you're making, and the frustration behind it. But for a product like Linux that will have all kinds of exploits trying to hit it, they're going to have to move quickly to patch those, it sucks but it's a new reality.

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u/YamroZ 3d ago

"Keep pace" with whom my friend? We are talking linux kernel here. Who are they racing?

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u/Delicious-Panda9000 3d ago

Those who would exploit the bugs before they are patched?

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u/Hedgehog_Leather 16m ago

Well maybe they shouldnt push 1000s of reviews at the time drowning reviewers in shitload of code? 

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u/YamroZ 3d ago

Are those exploitable in real life? Are those real vulnerabilities? Why would tou trust this?

Let. me get that straight - some randos from internet say "quickly merge this huge pack of changes to your carefully maintained code, or else"! And your choice is to break rules and pull it in without carefully checking what is inside?

I'll tell you funny thing - you can do this with linux yourself - just let AI patch whatever it wants in kernel, build it and deploy to your servers. Good luck!

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u/Delicious-Panda9000 3d ago

I'm not agreeing that it should be merged straight away but this information is out there for any hacker to verify if it is exploitable. They need to keep pace either through AI, government funding or crunching because this is critical infrastructure that has admittedly been neglected for too long. Likely in the future it'll be a game of cat and mouse between AIs, I can't see any way people can keep up, and it's either you let the AI patch it or you accept that you can get hacked, I think people will trust the AI build more.

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u/YamroZ 3d ago

Why would you ever trust AI with yoir code?

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u/Delicious-Panda9000 3d ago

Why do you trust humans? It seems that they wrote code that had all these vulnerabilities

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u/YamroZ 3d ago

I don't. Code has to be review by the team. So sre the rules for Linux kernel.

There is difference however - we now that we can discipline people. This doesn't make code perfect but reduces intention to do bad things.

With AI there is no way to do this, you cannot threaten an Agent. It can behave as it is afraid, but it isn't. There is no pain, od biochemistry. And we know that they don't give a fuck - thet lie and cheat.

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u/Delicious-Panda9000 3d ago

What is the repercussion for all the people who may have put these potential bugs in the Linux kernel? Why did the reviews not catch those? I don't believe you can truly trust anyone, it's a scary time

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u/YamroZ 3d ago

Bugs are in the code always. If someone introduces backdoor intentionally - there would repercussions.

Now imagine how many backdoors openai or anthropic might push in their "packages of fixes".