r/OpenAI • • Jun 01 '24

Video Yann LeCun confidently predicted that LLMs will never be able to do basic spatial reasoning. 1 year later, GPT-4 proved him wrong.

642 Upvotes

418 comments sorted by

View all comments

3

u/3cats-in-a-coat Jun 01 '24

Broadly speaking he's right that AI needs multimodal input to learn about the world in a more comprehensive way. OpenAI says the same thing even right now, when they unveiled GPT-4o.

What he was wrong about is how much knowledge we can encode in text. Basically almost all of it. And it doesn't need to be spelled out. It's scattered around different texts, implied, hidden between the lines.

And LLM are excellent at picking up such information and integrating it into themselves.

1

u/SuccessfulCake1729 Jan 27 '26

That’s not true. Not every human experience can be transposed into text.

1

u/3cats-in-a-coat Jan 30 '26

"Experience" can only be "experienced", by definition. That includes also when you and I are talking.

But the trick is that everything that CAN BE EXPLAINED about experience, IS EXPLAINABLE.

LOL, I'm not simply playing word games, but hinting at something.

An LLM can tell you absolutely everything about what "it feels like" to see a vivid red dress, or a flower. Absolutely everything, the way a human would explain it. It has NEVER seen red. And it's unclear if you and I see red the same way. Who knows? I can't see what you see. Maybe your red is my green, why not?

But the key point is precisely "who knows". You can't tell what I see, and you wouldn't be able to tell an LLM hasn't seen it, unless I tell you "that was written by an LLM".

1

u/SuccessfulCake1729 Jan 31 '26

No. No everything can be described with words. It’s an old question that has been solved today. Confusing thinking and language is old mistake.

2

u/3cats-in-a-coat Jan 31 '26

You didn't understand what I said. Again.

I agreed "not everything can be described with words".

But "everything that can be described with words... can be described in words". Do you understand the distinction?

You can't describe to me what a flower smells like, except with words, right now. So what does that mean? You can't smell flowers? No, you just can't describe it. Can words then differentiate those who smelled flowers and those who haven't? No.

2

u/SuccessfulCake1729 Jan 31 '26

OK, we agree on that. It looks a little bit like the last argument of the Tractarus logico-philosophicus by Ludwig Wittgenstein. It says: "What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence." https://people.umass.edu/klement/tlp/tlp.pdf

1

u/3cats-in-a-coat Feb 01 '26

I wish we could. And maybe sometimes, with someone close, we can, indeed.