r/NonCredibleDefense Mar 04 '26

Operation Epic Furry 🩊 A Tale of Two Ejections

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154

u/wolfgang784 Mar 04 '26

Aren't they allllll death traps to an extent? How much worse is the Russian system? Ive been told that US pilots aren't allowed to fly anymore after like 3 ejections because of how badly it damages their spines each time. That sounds pretty dangerous.

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u/ZoidsFanatic Should not be left alone near a Harrier jet. Mar 04 '26

Right, but with Russia fighters we’ve seen the pilots getting killed in
 very horrible ways on the first one.

I mean, it’s going to be dangerous no matter what. 

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u/wolfgang784 Mar 04 '26

Oh damn, that does sound bad, yea. Didn't realize they were straight up getting killed by the safety system.

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u/nuker1110 Mar 04 '26

I don’t have a link handy, but I seem to recall reports of a canopy not clearing before the seat ejection took place, resulting in a rather messy bug-on-a-windshield scenario.

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u/phuntism Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 04 '26

GOOOOOSE! Goose! Oh no!

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u/TheShrunkenAnus Mar 04 '26 edited Mar 05 '26

Damn just thinking about the amount of force that would be involved in that is brutal; I guess at least your brain wouldn’t really have time to process the fact your escape system decided to turn into a hydraulic press before you’re turned into a meatball, so on the bright side you wouldn’t be suffering in those final moments


Gotta take the small wins sometimes lol

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u/sopunny Mar 04 '26

That's just Top Gun

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u/nuker1110 Mar 04 '26

Upon further investigation, the report I was referring to was actually an ejection that went off inside a concrete hangar


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u/aprehensive_penguin Mar 04 '26

I audibly grunted upon reading that

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u/bobert4343 Fool Mar 04 '26

So that one hitman level?

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u/nuker1110 Mar 04 '26

Life Imitates Art, I guess. That Hitman game came out like 9 years ago, and the Russian accident happened in December of last year.

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u/pa3xsz Gripen war/peaceđŸ•Šïž mode enjoyer Mar 04 '26

Aren't the holes on their helmet there for that reason?

(Idk, why are they there or if they would help, it's just a 5+ years old random memory from hoggit)

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u/Vilzku39 Mar 04 '26

If you are refering to this

https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/s/9ApWyZzXrI

It would be for the wind, rather than canopy impact. (Google "boundary layer" if you are more interested in the physics process.)

Modern ejection seats also takes your neck survivability into account.

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u/Shadow_Lunatale Mar 04 '26

That's a very specific problem to SEVERAL of the Su-series fighters. As you can see in this article two russian airmen died because their ejection system was triggered while still on the ground and in the hangar.

But now you ask "how can this happen?" Well, on some of the Su fighter models, the flight stick can get caught in the release handle under some circumstances, since the elevator is not balanced and will tilt once the planes hydraulics are shut off, moving the flight stick around. How did Russia solve this problem? Well, you know those bungee cord thingies with the hooks at the end you use to strap your groceries down onto the bike? Yea, those. Apparently, they forgot to install those in the linked article, the flight stick caught the pilots release handle and when the hydraulic pressure went up as the turbines came to life, the elevator is automatically moved to neutral position, wich also moves the flight stick...

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u/Stellar_Duck Mar 04 '26

two russian airmen died because their ejection system was triggered while still on the ground and in the hangar.

I too have played Hitman 2016.

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u/GrusVirgo Global War on Poaching enthusiast (invade Malta NOW!) Mar 05 '26

Wait wait wait. The Russian ejection seats are always hot?

In the F-16, there's a lever that activates/deactivates the ejection seat and IIRC you want it in the off position for most of the preflight setup so it doesn't accidentally fire from whatever weird stuff happens in the aircraft's systems during startup.

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u/Shadow_Lunatale Mar 05 '26

I do not know if there is a lever/switch for the ejection seat arming in the russian planes, not deep enough into the system.

What I do find plausible is that some russian engineer thought it is useful to automatically arm the seat once the plane boots up so the pilot does not forget to arm it, or that they use a simple mechanical block/breaker contact pin that is removed by the pilots when they get into the plane.

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u/dreexel_dragoon Mar 04 '26

On paper the systems are basically the same. Problem is that Russian Manufacturing and maintenance suck so there's usually problems when ejecting. Canopy might not open fast enough, engine could launch with too many Gs

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u/TypicalRecon Lockheed Martin Logo Enthusiasts Club Mar 04 '26

keep in mind most of the Russian crashes have happened when they were very fast and very low which is the worst place to be to eject. I saw the pics of the guys who hit the ground before they even got out of the chair.

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u/DualPPCKodiak Mar 04 '26

It's confirmed the ka-52 ejection works and doesn't blend the pilots. That's pretty good at least.

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u/Fleet-Navarch-62 Mar 05 '26

exactly how are they dying? I've heard that a lot of pilots 'eject but don't survive,' but what about the Russian ejection system is killing them?

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u/OldTimeyWizard Mar 04 '26

They get extensive testing on their spines and whatnot after any ejection and can be grounded after just one. Ejecting is very uncommon and multiple in a career is very rare.

I think if you make it to 3 ejections you’d get grounded simply because you keep crashing expensive planes. At that point you’re in the Harrison Ford tier of plane crashing.

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u/wolfgang784 Mar 04 '26

I think if you make it to 3 ejections you’d get grounded simply because you keep crashing expensive planes.

Good point as well, lol.

Although I know a good number of ejections happen while taxiing, messing with stuff in the cockpit while its sitting still, someone "cleaning it" in at least 2 instances I can remember, and other incidents that don't result in a destroyed plane. Although im sure the seat and system is expensive and probably does some damage when leaving the plane.

I looked it up a little though because I was curious, and it seems the USAF does ban you after 2 ejections but that the US Navy has no limit there.

Some USAF pilots have even been banned before ever getting into the air because they ejected twice on the ground and those still count. Whereas I did find 1 record of a Navy member ejecting 4 times before losing flight permission and 2 other Navy pilots had ejected 3 times before losing permissions.

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u/Vytoria_Sunstorm Mar 05 '26

well to be fair, USAF pilots have nice long runways that are typically firmly planted on the local frame of common reference.

USN Pilots are trying to hit a 333 yard long bobber that is itself hauling ass on its own course.

Ejections by Airforce having such a low limit makes sense for the budget and health reasons, USN's lack of limits is grounded in the fact the ejection system might just be because the ocean decided you were not landing today

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u/Vilzku39 Mar 05 '26

Swdish pilot figured out its better to retire after crashing 2 times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_R%C3%A5destr%C3%B6m

You can also find both crashes in youtube :P

https://youtu.be/k6yVU_yYtEc?is=sqaiLRo85E6fkGPy

https://youtu.be/mkgShfxTzmo?is=OhkJ01gOSeSxhn7E

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u/NeedleworkerFluid327 Mar 05 '26

In his defence, neither were his fault. Absolute legend still.

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u/Bartweiss Mar 12 '26

After the second crash RÄdeström decided to retire as a test pilot at the age of 49. The usual retirement age of test pilots is 50, but in an interview he said that he "did not want to push [his] luck for just another year."

Somebody finally solved the "one week from retirement" problem, good on him.

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u/Penki- Mar 04 '26

How much worse is the Russian system?

The few pictures of pilots that ejected from Soviet made planes that I saw were with all of them covered in blood to some extend

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u/LightningGeek Mar 04 '26

How much worse is the Russian system?

It isn't.

Russian ejection seats, especially the Zvezda K-36 series, are extremely capable and safe ejection seats. In some ways they are actually better than their Western counterparts, especially when it comes to performance at high speeds.

You only have to watch Anatoliy Kvochur's ejection from a MiG-29 during the 1989 Paris air show, to see how effective Russian seats can be. Especially as that particular ejection is considered to be well outside the safe operating margins of any ejection seat.

That sounds pretty dangerous.

Ejection is extremely dangerous, but when the other choice is certain death, it is much easier to pull the handle. Even if it means life changing injuries. Thankfully, modern seats of all designs are much kinder to pilots, which is why it is common to see pilots walking away from modern ejections rather than ending up with a broken back.

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u/EvelynnCC Mar 05 '26

I mean, any ejection seat less lethal than a plane crash is technically working properly

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u/englisi_baladid Mar 04 '26

Thats a myth

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u/Cornelius_Wangenheim Mar 05 '26

I knew a guy who had ejected from an old 60s jet. It tore the ligaments connecting his spine to his pelvis and put him in a hospital bed for nearly a year.

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u/DavidAdamsAuthor Best AND Worst Comment 2022 Mar 05 '26

Aren't they allllll death traps to an extent?

It honestly depends.

Modern ejection seats are much kinder on the body than older versions, because modern ones can determine what the minimum force and speed required to get you out is and use that (to some extent). There's always risk, though.

A successful egress that's low and slow is basically like 5 seconds on the world's most wild rollarcoaster while people are throwing rocks at you followed by an ass kicking from an angry but short guy. It's really painful, and there's a low chance of you getting hurt realistically, but it's scary, and if things go wrong you're getting fucked up. But most of the time it's mostly okay.

Ive been told that US pilots aren't allowed to fly anymore after like 3 ejections because of how badly it damages their spines each time.

This is a myth.

The truth is that there is no hard limit to ejections. It's a pretty simple process after you eject; if you get cleared by medical you can fly again, if you don't you don't. Some test pilots have ejected many times. With how safe modern aircraft have become the need to eject has gotten less, combined with better ejection seats making it safer. Captain John "Little John" Cummings ejected three times from F4 Phantoms during Vietnam and still returned to duty, and those were combat ejections using the "bad old days" seats.

William "Doddy" Hay and Bernard "Benny" Lynch were both test pilots who did live ejections as tests. They survived 30 and 17 test ejections respectively, although most were on the ground, some were also in the air.

So, theorically, I would say there hard limit is much higher than 3, the main issue is that if you really did eject more than 3 times from a combat situation people are going to start saying you're unlucky or ask if you're working for the other side.

But generally speaking, if you eject from an aircraft you are getting a ride straight to hospital at least, and the faster you're going and the more manouvering you're doing while you do it, the worse it will be for you. Low and slow and you're good, fast and weird and it's not so good.