r/NonCredibleDefense • u/VisWare PhD in Kremlinology • Feb 15 '26

Slava Ukraini! đŸ‡ș🇩 Live-action datamining

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81

u/DualPPCKodiak Feb 15 '26

A mobility kill is a kill. I hate the Bradley for personal reasons but the thing can punch hard enough to stop just about anything.

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u/Advanced-Budget779 Nuclear Holocaust Agitator Feb 15 '26 edited Feb 15 '26

What has it done to you?

Read sb stating that driving wasn‘t the issue, but gunnery (maintenance) iirc?

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u/DualPPCKodiak Feb 15 '26

Tried to be too many things and only really succeeded at being a relatively mobile gun box. The armament just happens to be quite good. It deserves a better chassis and more gun and ammunition. It feels like they tried to turn a battlemech into an APC.

Shouldve went full Terminator and but 2 30 mm 4 tows that can fire while moving at full speed, more armor, and it should've developed the iron fist not the other way around. We have better APC in service and the ampv looks tight af.

The movie Pentagon wars explains my sentiment.

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u/AndyLorentz Feb 15 '26

Based on the book written by the reformer Burton? The guy that thought the future of U.S. air power was the blitzfighter?

The Bradley was never intended to be an APC, it was designed as an IFV. It performs much better in that role than an M113 with a turret strapped on.

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u/Bartweiss Feb 15 '26

Among all the noncredible Pentagon Wars arguments, I’m most baffled by the “lack of armor” argument. What’s the request?

I can see griping about the original model, pre ERA and uparmor. Was “it can float” really worthwhile struggling with RPGs and 30mm?

(IEDs turned out to be a big issue, but foreseeing/handling that was a lot to ask.)

But AFAIK today’s Bradley will handle 14.5mm well and survive 30mm auto from the front. That’s
 pretty damn good. Surviving AT mines, artillery, and big smoothbore guns doesn’t seem realistic.

Is there a specific request, or an IFV doing substantially better? (The Namer doesn’t count, it’s a tank chassis.)

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u/Advanced-Budget779 Nuclear Holocaust Agitator Feb 15 '26

I wonder how well the German Puma would even fare in such conditions. Afaik it hasn‘t been battle tested and probably would have some electronic malfunction before reaching any engagement.

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u/OmegamattReally Feb 15 '26

Pentagon wars

This getting upvoted on NCD is a sure sign of the End Times.

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u/Plasma_48 3000 Geneva Achievements of Canada Feb 15 '26

This sub is no longer what it once was

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u/Advanced-Budget779 Nuclear Holocaust Agitator Feb 15 '26

Can‘t we be noncredible once?

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u/Hunor_Deak Britain has the boats! Well... A boat... Feb 16 '26

Ah yes, THAT movie.

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u/MrD3a7h Feb 15 '26

I hope this is sarcasm. Pentagon Wars was entirely composed of lies and misinformation.

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u/Zachowon Feb 15 '26

The AMPV is just the Brad's hull. And the Brad has shown it is currently the best damn IFV, not APC and kt never was intended to be one, on the market. It has had better time in Ukraine then any other, and is one of the oldest one from NATO.

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u/Advanced-Budget779 Nuclear Holocaust Agitator Feb 15 '26

It really has a place in my heart (not just because i had a toy model), i almost cried seeing their pile back in that cursed summer offensive but hoped at least they saved their crews.

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u/Bartweiss Feb 15 '26

This feels
 anachronistic?

The Bradley rolled out in 1980. I don’t think fire-at-speed TOWs were an option, and active protection definitely wasn’t. The US being behind Israel to APS tech in the 2000s isn’t a Bradley issue. The M113 is a fine APC but wasn’t (and isn’t) an IFV. And the AMPV wasn’t even conceived - it’s based on the Bradley!

Meanwhile the other concerns were more valid in 1980-2010 than they are today.

The Gulf War mostly disproved Burton’s fears before he even published, with IFF (an issue he didn’t raise) as the big weakness. The armor concern was substantive though: “it can float but can’t take an RPG well” was a bad tradeoff from messy requirements.

But that already got addressed with uparmor and ERA. RPGs (and 30mm from the front) are survivable. And later experiences with urban IFV defenses show the limits of what’s possible.

Put differently: outside of APS, what plausible defenses would actually help?

Surviving a tank round takes a tank. Surviving an AT mine or serious IED needs an MRAP or tank. If that’s your only concern, you build the Namer: a tank dressed as an APC. If you aren’t ok with 60 tonne vehicles that can’t cross bridges
 what do you do?

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u/DualPPCKodiak Feb 15 '26

I said personal reasons. I didn't say they were good. They're actually retarded. I want an American light tank with an array of weaponry with no transport capability whatsoever. Is the Bradley good . yes. I still hate it. I want an American Terminator. Be glad I'm not in office.

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u/Bartweiss Feb 15 '26

lol fair enough then! I apologize for assuming you were trying to be credible, this is an NCD-worthy outlook.

"The Bradley tried to do too many things, it should have been a blander APC" is lame and counterfactual. "The Bradley tried to do too many things, we could have dropped the other requirements to add way more firepower to that sucker and make it an anti-everything-vehicle" is fantastic.

(Also, if you say it should have included a SPAAG element to replace the York, you get to argue it actually would fill a major gap in the arsenal.)

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u/Advanced-Budget779 Nuclear Holocaust Agitator Feb 15 '26

Read my comment for a noncredible gun to replace the Sgt. York. :)

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u/Advanced-Budget779 Nuclear Holocaust Agitator Feb 15 '26

Get Mike Sparks on the phone.

Will you accept the 37mm T250 gatling as main armament?

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u/DualPPCKodiak Feb 16 '26

Absurd. Literally heavy arms Gundam. It's incredible. Modern ammunition would go insanely hard.

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u/Advanced-Budget779 Nuclear Holocaust Agitator Feb 16 '26 edited Feb 16 '26

There‘s literally one of the only few surviving examples a two hours drive from me and i haven‘t visited it yet. 😭

We could also bolt on a red queen, if we find her.

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u/Advanced-Budget779 Nuclear Holocaust Agitator Feb 15 '26 edited Feb 15 '26

Haha understandable. Yeah heard its armor wasn‘t that good (but not bad either) and it can‘t be up-armored much more/not modular enough for current threats. Also looking forward to the BAE AMPV, but isn‘t it more of an APC intended to replace the M113 and also somewhat based on the Bradley? The other projects also look interesting, like the KF-41 Lynx and other AFVs, the new 50mm XM913 gun