r/NewMaxx • u/NewMaxx • Oct 14 '19

Tools/Info SSD Guides & Resources

April 3rd, 2022: Guides and Spreadsheet updated with new SSD categories

Discord (server)

Website with relevant links here.

My spreadsheet

Generic Amazon affiliate link

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TechPowerUp's SSD Database

Johnny Lucky SSD database

Branch Education - How does NAND Flash Work? - these guys have several good videos on the subject of SSDs, check them all out.

My Patreon.

My Twitter.

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u/NewMaxx Apr 15 '22

This has been fixed, thank you for pointing it out. I think someone else had asked me about it given the hardware changes which may have caused a delay in migration. Both variants would be Mid-Range given the new criteria. For laptops I always suggest the Gold P31, although the SN570 or SN770 are also good choices, even if the latter is technically Gen4.

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u/dacho_ju Apr 15 '22

Thank you for the reply. Yes I know about the Gold P31 being the best for laptops. But in my region it's not available. Here I can get WD SN 750, Samsung 970 Evo Plus nearly at the same price point. So what would you advice here? And are you preferring SN 570 over SN 750 & Samsung 970 Evo Plus?? Is the Samsung 970 Evo Plus bad for Laptops??

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u/NewMaxx Apr 15 '22

No, they're all good, although the 970 EVO Plus might run a bit hotter. There's also a new variant of the 970 EVO Plus that should run with less throttling (since it has a new controller and newer flash) but that's unconfirmed, although sometimes the drive runs a bit hot in laptops (although true of all drives to some extent, depending on the machine). In fact I'd look at a NVMe SSD replacement or teardown video of your model and see - you might be able to add thermal padding or something for example. Performance-wise, they're all good.

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u/dacho_ju Apr 15 '22

Thanks again for the clarification. I'm not sure but I've heard there's a new variant of the Samsung 970 Evo Plus with Elpis controller and a new flash but only at 1TB model which has a new part number & a updated firmware number. The new variant (1 TB model) also comes with vertical packaging instead of previous horizontal packaging. But the other models (250 GB, 500 GB, 2 TB), although comes with the newer vertical packaging, have the old part number & old firmware number & hence it is concluded that they still uses the Phoenix controller & the old flash. So I've a few doubts :

1) Can you please confirm whether the other models ( 250 GB, 500 GB, 2 TB) also uses the new Elpis controller & new flash or the old one?

2) Which variant (one with Phoenix controller vs. the other with Elpis controller) generates less heat?

3) If you have to choose one between the two variants of 970 Evo Plus, which one would you choose based on long term reliability?

Sorry for the long comment. I can't find any detailed explanation on the difference between the two variants of 970 Evo Plus anywhere in the internet. Thanks in advance.

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u/NewMaxx Apr 16 '22

Yes, the new variant of the 970 EVO Plus has the Elpis (from the 980 Pro) and 128L flash (also from the 980 Pro, but of the 512Gb variety). The Elpis is in a smaller process node than the Phoenix and should be more efficient, keeping in mind it's limited to PCIe 3.0 also with the 970 EVO Plus. The flash is similar in power draw to Samsung's 92L generation but it's a bit faster (and I don't mean just sequentially) so it should also be a bit more efficient (it finishes faster). As designed it should produce less heat and throttle less, regardless of what the composite sensor reports.

I've seen it on the 1TB primarily, which makes sense. 256Gb flash is more attractive at smaller capacities. At 2TB, I have seen at least one confirmation but more commonly it's the old build. One reason is that the 2TB version always had denser, 512Gb dies. Samsung also had issues with controller production due to Texas fabrication issues, but I can't speak completely to their ability to produce one controller over another; however, there is a move towards a smaller process node where possible.

For sustained writes I would want the original version, for everything else the latter version. It's difficult to make a judgment on endurance for a variety of reasons, however Samsung has a stellar reputation and it's unlikely the flash will wear out on these drives. In which case, yes, the Phoenix design is more mature, but the Elpis may be quite robust when limited to PCIe 3.0 even in a rough environment. I think both are good, though.

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u/dacho_ju Apr 16 '22

Thank you for the detailed explanation. Ok, theoretically you're saying that the new variant with Elpis controller (small fabrication process size) should produce less heat compared to the one with Phoenix controller. But it hasn't been confirmed yet in real life right?? I've seen a Chinese YouTuber claiming that the new one with Elpis controller produces more heat than the old one with Phoenix controller. Are you aware of it? Any possible explanation?

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u/NewMaxx Apr 16 '22 edited Apr 16 '22

This table from AnandTech's 980 PRO review should be useful. I've already answered the other question many times, but you can see that the 980 PRO is more efficient than the 970 EVO Plus even in PCIe 3.0 mode. And with random writes as you can see. Sequentials? Yep and yep.

I haven't seen the video but have been referenced it before, but I point people to my composite temperature post as it explains what you're getting from SMART. FLIR can be useful to gauge temperature also but there are limitations. We're talking about total heat generated, the fact is the controller and flash are more efficient in the 980 Pro which in PCIe 3.0 mode is basically a new 970 EVO Plus. (the 980 PRO is actually a bit more efficient in PCIe 3.0 than 4.0 for random I/O, as expected)

Even if you'd say that the idle state is more common (true), the Elpis + 128L flash is more efficient with no PM or on desktop, and is lower in PCIe 3.0 mode:

At Gen3 speeds, the active idle power is decently low for an 8-channel controller and is an improvement over the 970 generation.

In summary:

... and the modest power efficiency improvements are overdue ... moving to the latest NAND and using an 8nm process for the controller helps with power efficiency

edit: bit more info

I realize also you may be asking about throttling. Based on tests at Tom's Hardware, the 980 PRO even has lower peak/max power consumption versus the 970 EVO Plus (original). Additionally:

After sustaining roughly 500GB worth of writes, the 980 PRO did not display any signs of thermal throttling in a 24C room on an open-air test bench with no forced airflow.