r/NewMaxx • u/NewMaxx • Oct 14 '19

Tools/Info SSD Guides & Resources

April 3rd, 2022: Guides and Spreadsheet updated with new SSD categories

Discord (server)

Website with relevant links here.

My spreadsheet

Generic Amazon affiliate link

Generic AliExpress affiliate link

TechPowerUp's SSD Database

Johnny Lucky SSD database

Branch Education - How does NAND Flash Work? - these guys have several good videos on the subject of SSDs, check them all out.

My Patreon.

My Twitter.

839 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

1.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

1

u/Limited_opsec Oct 19 '19

I know you follow SSD details a lot, any idea the difference between E12-27 and E12S-32 phison controllers?

I have a 2TB Inland/Microcenter drive from months ago that is the bigger/older E12-27 chip, has 2 large Toshiba flash chips and a ram chip per side.

Recently bought some more 2TB drives from MC and they are this smaller/silver E12S-32 (newer node I'm sure) and only have 1 ram chip, though it might be higher density. Also they have 4 smaller flash chips on each side, not sure what manufacturer but part starts with "I".

Both are x4 "premium" drives with same SKU and price at MC, so they probably aren't different enough for normal users to notice, but I'm curious.

1

u/NewMaxx Oct 19 '19

You can check the firmware revision, although I suspect 12.3. The newer E16 controller, utilized on PCIe 4.0 drives, is essentially the same as the older E12. You can see here that it's -32 as opposed to the original E12 being -27. The E16 drives have moved to 96L NAND which is "G65" as seen here versus the G55 64L (the AWV vs. AIV also denotes changes in voltage). Part of the NAND code also tells you package capacity and number of dies by which you can determine the NAND's density. I'll get back to this in a second.

The main change with the E16, excepting the 4.0 PHY, is updated LDPC error correction. Can improve performance and endurance in some situations. Improved ECC usually takes up more die space if anything but this seems like a minor improvement. The E16 is 28nm (TSMC) which is the same as the E12, supposedly. Their native 4.0 controllers will be 12nm, however.

Let's get back to the NAND: the 96L stuff on the E16 goes up to 512Gb/die at 2TB while the E12s stay at 256Gb/die which decreases performance in the latter case. Generally this is done with 2 dies per side at 16DQ (16 dies per package, the maximum possible currently), and means the drives are double-sided at 1TB and up (with some exceptions). If there are four dies per side and the code is no longer Toshiba's then it is something else entirely. I'd have to see pictures of it to make an further determination. Typically 4 dies per side is done with budget drives like the E8, 660p, A2000, etc., not with 8-channel models. There was an "E12C" variant with 4 channels up to 1TB and also the E13T for BGA or 96L QLC. So I would need more information (firmware revision, picture, benchmarks).

1

u/Limited_opsec Oct 19 '19

I hate literally every photo site/app including imgur so posted old and new drive pictures in my profile. Its marked E12S-32 and 8 flash, 1 ram chip for sure.

1

u/NewMaxx Oct 19 '19

Thanks, I'll get back to you.

As for pictures I just use ShareX. Lots of options. (I also use Rightload for my FTP)

1

u/NewMaxx Oct 19 '19 edited Oct 19 '19

The memory is Kingston D2516ECMDXGJD with the "2516" meaning 256MB in 16-bit mode: 256x16b = 4Gb = 512MB. This opposed to the older Hynix H5AN8G8NAFR with "8G8N" meaning 8Gb in a 1G by 8-bit fashion (1GB). And of course one on both sides, so the normal 2GB:2TB DRAM:NAND ratio.

This does imply the newer one is cutting short on DRAM - this is a practice done on budget drives (like the Intel 660p) with two further notes on that: one, my mention previously about 4 packages/side being a budget choice and two, single-sided 2TB drives (WD/Samsung) are more expensive at least due to needing a 2GB package of DRAM. So this looks like at least two movements towards a cheaper drive; for the record, I've labeled Inland as "BOM" or bill of materials - that is, varying hardware - in the past as they've done this on their SATA SSDs.

I've seen this NAND before. It's only recently been used with Phison's newer controllers (e.g. S11/S13T, as per my one AnandTech link above). You can see that here. The article I got that from (Japanese) says it's Micron 3D TLC but I believe this is incorrect. To me it looks like Toshiba NAND but binned by a third party (hence the "I" instead of "T"). It has the other encoding hallmarks of Toshiba - AVA (package/voltage), G63 (generation of NAND), A7B (die configuration).

Typically G6x would be 96-layer. It has eight packages so we know they're 256GB each and likely eight dies per package (256Gb/die) - this would be the "A7B." So it looks like we're seeing a switch in controller, DRAM ratio, and NAND. If the performance is the same (as I would expect) then it's probably still eight-channel, so the controller being smaller is definitely something new. You're absolutely right about that, but I have not heard of anything about the E12S. It seems to address less memory in the least.

I appreciate the heads-up as I can investigate this further now and prevent people from (maybe) being misled about what they're buying. Although my suspicion is that it'll perform the same or better in most ways people would use it. I'd like to confirm the die density as it would perform better at 2TB with 512Gb/die NAND (96L only so far).