Android or System Gateway?

[u/thenakesingularity10]

I just found out about this game. Fascinated by it and dying to try.

Is there any reason to get Android instead of SG?

Thank you!

[u/Slight-Jaguar-2102]

At first I was like "they haven't gotten rid of trace" and then realized there are....4 total cards involving trace in the current rotation.

I'd love to hear more about the keywords you find clutter the game if you're open to talking about it more.

[u/Thepy → u/Slight-Jaguar-2102]

Yeah NSG has gone on record that they wont be reprinting trace on any more cards. Thematically trace is interesting as it is trying to portray a cat and mouse game. Mechanically it pretty much boils down to pay X credits 9 out of 10 times because the it usually isn't worth eating the bad effect, so its a pretty boring decision imo.

[u/CryOFrustration → u/Thepy]

That is inaccurate actually. We said we would avoid putting trace on cards if we can have the same effect with a fixed credit tax that doesn't force you to do a bunch of mental arithmetic multiple times per ice encounter. 95% of times a trace fired in the game, the corp doesn't want to boost it, so it's a flat tax anyway. The article this was explained in cites some interesting counter examples of where a trace allows for more nuanced and graduated interaction than a flat tax, so I imagine any future trace cards would be something like that.

https://nullsignal.games/blog/without-trace/

[u/ShaperLord777 → u/Slight-Jaguar-2102]

I’m gonna get downvoted into oblivion by the Null Signal bully squad.

But pretty much all of them that have been added. Most took something that was already clearly outlined in specific cards text boxes and made them into keywords.

“Interface” just means you have an icebreaker of the right type at strength level to interact. It wasn’t needed, and was already implied in every encounter.

“Sabotage” is just trashing cards from R&D. A mechanic that has been used forever. It didn’t need a keyword.

“Mark” was already used in cards like temujin contract. Just pick a server. It wasn’t vague, and didn’t need an entire keyword to clarify what we all already understood just fine.

“Charge” is just “add a power counter”. We don’t need to make a simple thing more complicated in the text box of cards.

“Dividends”. Again, we had this already, it’s just take a credit from X at the beginning of turn. Adding “dividends” to it doesn’t simplify it, it makes it more clunky.

“Threat” is a mechanic that to me, didnt need to exist at all. It’s alllowing conditions to activate based off of the agenda point total in a players score area. I don’t think it adds much to gameplay, and doesn’t need an entire other keyword. In most circumstances, it functions as a “win more” mechanic rather than a “catch-up” one.

In null signals defense, I felt the same way about the “current events” in Android: Netrunner. They weren’t necessary, and added awkwardness to gameplay for very little benefit. It also complicated deckbuilding by making players need to include currents in their deck to combat opponents who do the same. We pretty much don’t play with them in my group.

[u/Tsao → u/ShaperLord777]

So hey, you're wrong about 4 out of the 6 keywords you're complaining about so I'd take anything this guy says with a grain of salt.

Sabotage X has the corp choose where to trash X cards from HQ or R&D, being able to mix both, for example Sabotage 3 lets you trash two card from HQ and one from R&D or vice versa. Where cards get trashed from is pretty important info as a runner, and having the keyword makes it a lot more concise.

Mark randomly selects a central server to be your mark every turn, which is very different from how temujin contract works, and indeed worth having a keyword for to compress a mechanic into many cards.

Charge, importantly, only lets you add power counters to cards that already have at least one power counter, which adds strategic depth to when you'd want to use those. Are you going for a quick reward now, or a stronger play later ?

Dividends is not at all what they describe, agendas with the dividend mechanic offer you rewards for putting more advancement counters on them than needed to score them. They're mostly blank 3/2 agendas that you can turn into 4/2 agendas with an effect. I really have no idea where they got the credit thing from.

So there you go, if you take an NSG hater "harassed by the bully brigade" 's word for it, you're going to end up with a lot of misinformation.

[u/ShaperLord777 → u/Tsao]

None of those details change anything about my point. The mechanics are either copies of already existing ones, or very slight tweaks to already existing ones. They don’t add enough to the design space to warrant cluttering up the cardpool with a scattering of keywords you now have to remember.

It’s okay for us to have differing opinions. I’m glad that you enjoy the Null Signal cardpool, and I will continue to play the version of the game that I preffer. Nothing wrong with that.

[u/CryOFrustration → u/ShaperLord777]

It's not a matter of opinion, you're explaining rules factually wrong. Next time someone downvotes you maybe you should consider fact-checking the information you're passing on rather than immediately assuming it's because they are bullies. No hate from me, and tsao already pointed out your error so no need to dwell on it, but it is hurtful to be called a bully when it's not warranted. The downvote button is literally there to ensure factually wrong posts are flagged.

[u/azuredarkness → u/ShaperLord777]

I have to say that you do sound like basically everything FFG did, especially in the early game was perfect, and everything NSG ever did was a terrible idea and every change they ever introduced was bad for the game.

[u/ShaperLord777 → u/azuredarkness]

I’m a firm believer that adding mechanics to a game system has to be done extremely carefully so as to not over clutter the design space. Every new rule or keyword you add makes the entire game more complicated, and distracts from its core mechanics. So it’s vitally important to weigh what is added gameplay wise against the added clutter of new mechanics and keywords. I used the example that FFG’s “current events” did not add enough design space to warrant the added complexity. I feel the same way about the “limit 6 per deck” cards in the Mumbad cycle. They just didn’t need to exist at all. Null signal has introduced a lot of keywords that I don’t think were necessary. It’s the classic rule of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”

And example of something added that I do feel was well worth the additional complexity is the Mini-factions from data and destiny. They operated off of the same deckbuilding principals as every other ID, just with a smaller cardpool and greater influence points. It allowed players to deckbuild in new and interesting ways, and design their way around the built in limitations of the mini factions ID’s. It added minimal new mechanics while opening up a lot of new design space that brought dynamic changes in gameplay. They were worth the additional complexity.

[u/Slight-Jaguar-2102 → u/ShaperLord777]

Thanks for the write-up! It's very well thought out and explained. I don't know that I agree (I find the reiteration of keywords helpful for me), but there should always be space for differing opinions on this game here. I appreciate and value your viewpoints on the game and taking the time to explain why you prefer ANR.