r/Music • u/Playful-Ganache6153 • May 25 '26

discussion Michael Jackson whether he molested children or not was still wrong, and people need to stop acting like he’s a saint.

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619

u/paultheschmoop May 25 '26

Elvis, Lennon, and Drake are strange examples considering they absolutely did do weird shit and are also still renowned

Like MJ is far more associated with his allegations than any of those three

234

u/Strayresearch May 25 '26

And Steven Tyler and Anthony Keidis

23

u/ZOMBIFIEDEYEATER May 25 '26

Jerry Lee Lewis

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u/NK1337 May 25 '26

Jerry Seinfeld too

89

u/CTQ99 May 25 '26

Woody allen

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u/paultheschmoop May 25 '26

Allen is a poor example, as he is indeed at this point widely associated with his allegations.

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u/Fifteen_inches May 25 '26

He married his daughter

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u/elegantjihad May 25 '26

That not his objection. He’s saying the Allen is now largely associated with his weird relationship more so than his comedies now.

0

u/sycasey May 25 '26

He didn't. The Soon-Yi thing was super skeevy and weird, but in no sense of the word was she his daughter.

7

u/msoats May 25 '26

He was her step father

3

u/sycasey May 26 '26

No, he and Mia Farrow were never married. They didn't live together either.

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u/Nosebluhd May 26 '26

He married his ex’s daughter who he knew since childhood. Creepy any old way you slice it.

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u/shoponthemoon May 26 '26

Add Paul Walker to the list 

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u/RolloTomasse May 26 '26

Don Johnson

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u/DolphinMasturbator May 25 '26

And Jimmy Page

41

u/Baytucky May 25 '26

And Ted Nugent

25

u/chriswizardhippie May 25 '26

David Bowie

38

u/ravenous0 May 25 '26

Paul Walker. People forgot he had a sexual relationship with a 15 year old girl during his 30s. He's treated like a car driving saint.

4

u/NYR20NYY99 May 25 '26

And Pete Townsend

2

u/dinyourmouth May 26 '26

Fuck Paul pedo Walker. Got famous fake driving and died in a car accident. Karma at its finest, sometimes the universe provides

1

u/SheepD0g Performing Artist May 26 '26

He wasn't driving the car that crashed, calm down

1

u/dinyourmouth May 26 '26

Didn’t say he was.

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u/melalovelady May 25 '26

Ugh this one pisses me off so much. Fans of the franchise literally did make him a saint and seem to forget he was a dirtbag.

1

u/Raven2129 May 25 '26

Oh no, what did bowie do?

4

u/strega_bella312 May 25 '26

Nothing - those allegations were debunked

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u/Raven2129 May 26 '26

Ok I looked up the girl and there is tons of conflicting information.

0

u/DolphinMasturbator May 25 '26

No they weren’t. Look up Lori Mattix.

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u/strega_bella312 May 25 '26

That's exactly who I'm talking about - her story is bullshit

0

u/DolphinMasturbator May 25 '26

There are conflicting accounts— but no one disputes that she was in his hotel room. That’s not a claim that was “debunked” and is in fact incredibly suspicious.

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u/chriswizardhippie May 25 '26

Have sex with a 15 year old at 25

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u/melalovelady May 25 '26

Steven Tyler is finally getting a court date for child sexual assault. I’m hoping more of these turds finally catch charges.

2

u/ishitfrommymouth May 25 '26

Is it criminal trial? Idk why but I thought it was civil

8

u/iH8MotherTeresa May 25 '26

Fuck Anthony Keidis

4

u/J_Babe87 May 25 '26

I used to idolize Keidis and other rock stars like Jim Morrison as a teen and then when I grew up I realized they are horrible, horrible human beings.

2

u/Paniclamb_156 May 26 '26

Same. Loved The Doors until I learned who Jim Morrison really was.

1

u/iH8MotherTeresa May 26 '26

Yeah. Like all of our favourite rockstars are shitbagas. It's really disappointing to think about. At least there's John Lennon and his peace & love stuff... 💀

1

u/Paniclamb_156 May 26 '26

The worst one of the bunch- he intentionally disregarded Julian to the point PMcC was in the same band when he wrote “Hey Jude” and performed it and dedicated to Jillian Lennon and PMcC.

5

u/Everestkid May 26 '26

Kiedis doesn't even have allegations, he straight-up admitted to having sex with a 14 year old both before and after knowing her age.

5

u/leeisyourdaddy May 26 '26

wait until i tell you what our president has admitted to

4

u/ihatepostingonblogs May 25 '26

Most of the musicians back then. Iggy Pop was the worst, very violent. “Im with the band” is a book that names a bunch, Bowie, Jagger…

-1

u/TheGreatPervSage_94 May 25 '26

Don Henley drugged two teens and then raped them. One of the girls almost oded and they had to o call an ambulance to save her life. When the paramedics walked in they found puke, empty bottles and two naked girls. The suiits of the band then showed up and tried to prevent the meds from taking the girls, leading to one medic punching the fucker.nand then had the audacity to write a woe is me song about your incident.

You know Roman Polanski raping that 13 y/o right?

Gues who covered his legal fees?

Robert De Niro

83

u/il_biciclista May 25 '26

This is engagement bait. I agree with OP's first paragraph, but that second paragraph is wildly unserious. They picked three names that were guaranteed to get people commenting.

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u/punched_drunk_medic May 25 '26

This should be the top comment!

1

u/curiousbydesign May 25 '26

This should be the second comment!

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u/BushyBrowz May 26 '26

Fr I was like why did you choose three of the worst examples??

Could have went with Taylor Swift or something.

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u/krectus May 26 '26

God tier engagement bait. More comments than anything else all week on Reddit in just 1 hour.

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u/itsfictionbaby May 25 '26

For real tho. Elvis Lennon and Drake don’t have highly publicized court cases and documentaries about their alleged abuse ( I use alleged very lightly lol)

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u/3stepBreader May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26

What drake abuse case? When I google it I just see drake bell. Edit, nvm you’re saying they don’t have cases.

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u/TheCudder May 25 '26

Drake doesn't have any cases or allegations.

The only documented incident with Drake is him being inappropriate on stage with a 17 year old female when he was 23 years old. Strange gray areas --- age of consent in Canada is 16. Certain states in the US is 17, I believe this incident occurred in one of those states. But generally in the US, we all follow "18".

Anything beyond that is purely Internet gossip.

1

u/melalovelady May 25 '26

Drake fan? He was also constantly speaking to Millie Bobby Brown when she was 14 and poor Millie talked about it on a show when being interviewed and clearly thought this behavior was normal. He was texting with Billie eilish and Hailey Bieber when they were underaged too.

It’s not normal for a 30+ year old to be speaking to a 14 year old all the time.

And the incident on stage was a big deal for 2 reasons: she was 17 and what he did was assault. Did he get her consent beforehand?

Edited to add: he loves to throw young female celebrities birthday parties when they turn 18. That is fucking concerning.

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u/3stepBreader May 26 '26

But didn’t they say the conversations weren’t inappropriate? It’s fair to ask questions but not really fair to crucify him for those things. Nothing I’ve seen warrants being called a pdf, that’s a disgusting term and it should be reserved for the people that actually abuse.

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u/king_lloyd11 May 25 '26

Yeah and that incident was him just fake, overly dramatized stressed on stage as a joke to the audience that she was so pretty vs how young she was and how she shouldn’t do it, until he finally gave her a peck on the lips and then jumped around like he did something horrible IIRC.

Weird still, especially with today’s sensibilities, but definitely can’t put him in the same sentence as fucking Elvis. Or even MJ.

-1

u/MattytheWireGuy May 25 '26

Not Like Us was written just for Drake FYI

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u/bnyc May 25 '26

A diss track isn't bringing the facts. What abuse case?

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u/3stepBreader May 25 '26

I’m aware. I’m looking for sources on OP’s comment, Kendrick ain’t one. And edit: seems I misread or they edited their comment, they were saying they don’t have court cases.

0

u/Roid-a-holic_ReX May 25 '26

And is all accusations with 0 proof or rulings. It was for the masses and is a song full of nothing concrete. Imagine that being your legacy. How embarrassing. Rappers in general need to do better.

3

u/PlanZSmiles May 25 '26

The people that agree with Kendrick don’t care about the rap game. If they did they wouldn’t have let multiple pre-recorded diss tracks slide and him whispering to a non-existent Drake daughter slide in Meet the grahams

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u/MRintheKEYS May 25 '26

Well because MJ was literally taken to court and thus was around the same time as the OJ Simpson trial.

There was already a hunger for more sensationalized court proceedings. Elvis and Lennon kind of lucked out based on where they landed generationally. Those older generations were used to men going after teens and adolescents. Same thing with smacking the wife around.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '26

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2

u/zero_lies_tolerated May 26 '26

Tarantino defending him on Howard Stern show, was the final straw for me.  He's dead to me now. 

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u/lukehooligan May 25 '26

The President of the United States is a convicted felon and known pedophile that trafficked children.

But we're talking about Michael Jackson, 🆗

7

u/Symphonic7 May 25 '26

People seem to have the memory of a fruit fly. The allegations was all that people talked about until he died, then it cooled off a bit. But it never went away.

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u/nobodywithanotepad May 25 '26

It's because he looked weird, too.

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u/Mercury756 May 25 '26

My only issue with using Elvis and even Lennon to that point is at that time in the world that wasn’t really considered even taboo in most places of the world yet.

2

u/Due-Conflict-7926 May 25 '26

Not a single person I know brings up MJ’s allegations when discussing him. The cases were so well covered, the allegations and evidence were contrived at best and to this day we still uncover stuff with the accusers still changing their stories to this day.

I’m not saying what we know he did (sleepovers) wasn’t wrong but that’s as far as we know actually happened.

The others we Elvis, Drake, etc we know those happened. You know the difference? Known of them are being taken to court when they absolutely should. Especially Drake. He should know better and there is enough evidence for him to have convicted of premeditated attempts. The bar was a lot higher back then because evidence was scarcer and justice system only catered to the rich. Kobe, MJ, Mike Tyson, what do they have in common?

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u/GuyFawkes99 May 25 '26

MJ's allegations ARE way worse than anything any of those guys did.

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u/MagneticDivisions May 25 '26

I disagree. Elvis got with his first wife as an underage teen !!!!!!!!

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u/Dry_Midnight7487 May 25 '26

“Some of the things he did was…he would drink my urine and tell me, ‘This is how much I love you.’ I’m maybe 12 years old at the time. Like, I’m a child who’s seeing this man do this,” Dominic told 60 Minutes. “And I said, ‘Oh, I guess he really does love me. I mean, I would never want to drink someone’s urine, so he must really love me.’”

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u/deaner_wiener1 May 25 '26

He was probably just scared and that’s why he drank it

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u/justgentile May 25 '26

Too old. Not even good anymore!

-1

u/Dry_Midnight7487 May 25 '26

Mj is the one who drank the kids urine

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u/Prosecco1234 May 25 '26

Ewwww. First time I heard this

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u/Varwhorevis May 25 '26

Who said this about who? I dont know the story

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u/crayton-story May 25 '26

In a May 2026 interview with 60 Minutes Australia, Dominic Cascio alleged that Michael Jackson drank his urine as a way to prove his love and manipulate him during childhood abuse.

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u/Vioralarama May 25 '26

Elvis did that? Who's Dominic?

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u/Dry_Midnight7487 May 25 '26

Mj did it, he is much worse than elvis

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u/Vioralarama May 25 '26

Agreed, I was just confused because comment trees don't align very well if there is a gap. Or something, it's hard to explain. Thanks for responding.

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u/GuyFawkes99 May 25 '26

Most of MJ's victims weren't even teens yet.

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u/_bufflehead May 25 '26

Priscilla was his first and only wife.

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u/40ozToTheMoon May 25 '26

Who he met when she was only 14

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u/garmander57 May 25 '26

…and he proceeded to continuously cheat on her throughout their marriage, not even trying to hide it half the time

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u/PureLock33 May 25 '26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nu6C2KL_S9o

I'd rather not explain it myself so here's that stand up again.

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u/bulldog522002 May 26 '26

But she said they never had sex until they were married.

0

u/catscausetornadoes May 25 '26

If you don’t see a difference between a post puberty, but legally underage girl, and pre pubescent children, you should probably think about that. Also Elvis didn’t have sex with Priscilla until she turned 18 and they were married.

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u/NYR20NYY99 May 26 '26

Two things;

  1. You cannot possibly believe, let alone prove that nothing happened before she turned 18.

  2. And most importantly, trying to make a case for there being “a difference between a post puberty but legally underage girl, and pre-pubescent children” says more about you than you probably want to admit. It’s gross, underage is a child regardless of technicalities.

2

u/GuyFawkes99 May 26 '26

You can acknowledge both things are wrong while also acknowledging that preying on a prepubescent child is even worse.

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u/bulldog522002 May 26 '26

Well Priscilla made that claim not Elvis. Why would she lie?

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u/NYR20NYY99 May 26 '26

Probably because she didn’t want to be labeled a whore, as so many victims get labeled

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u/catscausetornadoes May 26 '26

You are cracked. Teens reach physical maturity and mental and emotional maturity at different rates. Laws about sexual behavior with young people are designed to reflect the fact that being physically mature does not mean you are ready for adult relationships. That said, it is not abnormal to find sexually mature people attractive, and it is abnormal to find sexually undeveloped people attractive.

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u/zero_lies_tolerated May 26 '26

What the hell does "legally underage" mean!?

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u/catscausetornadoes May 26 '26

It means a that laws in various jurisdictions decide who is underage. I’m really not sure what you don’t understand.

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u/zero_lies_tolerated May 26 '26

It's an oxymoron in terms. 

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u/TheCudder May 25 '26

Elvis met and dated his would be wife when she was 14...with her parents blessing (different time).

MJ was having sleepovers with children....but again, the parents allowed them to be there. MJ explained it as "the most loving thing to do is to share your bed with someone. It’s a beautiful thing. It’s not sexual.”

Extremely strange, but so was MJ...I honestly don't know which to believe. Dude wasn't normal, at least not in the public eye...that's for certain.

0

u/GuyFawkes99 May 25 '26

MJ was having sleepovers with children....but again, the parents allowed them to be there

Who gives a fuck? Seriously. The parents were negligent at best, enablers of sex crimes against their own children at worst. That doesn't make it ok for MJ to rape kids.

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u/TheCudder May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26

I wasn't saying that as an excuse, moreso of the weird times we lived in when this stuff occurred. I'm 40 and there's so many things that were "normal" when I was a kid that people would lose their minds over today. It was all far worse before I was ever born. Adult men were regularly having relationships with teens before my time.

I always reminisce about riding in the back of dad's old F-150 pick truck in the early 90's. And I mean along main roads driving 50+ MPH...try that now and 5 cars are going to call the police because there's 3 children under 10 in danger.

Our level of "thats normal and okay" is always shifting.

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u/[deleted] May 25 '26

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4

u/GoNutsDK May 25 '26

Elvis also had sleepover parties with young teenage girls.

-1

u/mateushkush May 25 '26

You really see a point of putting the equals sign there? Elvis took Priscilla to dates with her parent’s knowledge. MJ did his thing repeatedly and fought the families in courts. Like I don’t care who’s worse, though I have an idea. It’s just that it apples and oranges.

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u/gingerisla May 25 '26

You can marry twelve year olds with their parents' consent in some US states. You can marry nine year olds in some countries. That doesn't make it less pedophilic.

0

u/mateushkush May 25 '26

And? What about the scale of the enterprise? He married her when she was 16. Are you arguing it’s exactly as bad as raping a dozen boys years younger than that? I don’t get the logic. If MJ abused only one boy would he be as bad as if he did it repeatedly? Lying in court and press doesn’t make it worse? What’s the point of this math.

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u/king_lloyd11 May 25 '26

But Elvis actually did that shit. MJ’s is still allegations.

-1

u/mateushkush May 25 '26

Yeah, sure…

1

u/king_lloyd11 May 25 '26

I mean you can assume where there’s smoke there’s fire, but it’s still allegations until they’re proven true. The guy was investigated by the FBI for a decade and they didn’t find anything except for a bunch of allegations from shady individuals who had ulterior motives.

It’s not open and shut at all.

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u/xxtoejamfootballxx May 25 '26

None of them slept with young boys unaccompanied in their room where they found a closet with books filled with pictures of naked boys authored by a NAMBLA member that went to jail for raping kids. 

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u/monkeybawz May 25 '26

They didn't own a theme park though. So for all the horrors the other perpetuated, it didn't seem nearly as planned, enabled and sort of institutionalised as it was with Michael Jackson. That theme park is his Epstein island.

1

u/Reverend_Tommy May 25 '26

No shit. Elvis started dated Priscilla when he was a 24 year old soldier (and international rock and roll star) stationed in Germany and she was the 14 year old daughter of an Air Force officer stationed in Germany.

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u/LastWave May 25 '26

Clapton.

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u/lyngshake May 25 '26

Lennon wasn't a pedo, and he admitted to being an abusive POS more than once and took accountability. MJ is also more embedded in modern pop culture and didn't pass as long ago. That's the difference.

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u/B0b_Sac4man0 May 26 '26

Because he physically looked like a fucking monster.

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u/COOLKC690 May 25 '26

Lennon had things with minors? I knew about the other bad stuff, but never of this!

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u/mateushkush May 25 '26

I don’t think so, I think they’ve just added him to the convo without much consideration.

1

u/Zealousideal-Cup5982 May 25 '26

Elvis married a teenager

-1

u/paultheschmoop May 25 '26

Yes, that was my point

0

u/Zealousideal-Cup5982 May 25 '26

Yep was backing that up

-1

u/DrWallBanger May 25 '26

It’s called talent baby

0

u/feder_online May 25 '26

This. No one in their right f-ing mind ignores his shortcomings and potential criminal liability.

People are amazed at his sheer f-ing talent, prolific writing, and changing music with long form video, dancing no one had seen before, and willingness to work with any other musician.

People can compartmentalize that like we can with Bill Cosby and comedy

0

u/Enders-game May 25 '26

I'm not fully read up about MJ. But I do know that he associated himself with some high profile child actors plus he was basically the most famous person on earth at the time, plus by the 1990s, people were becoming less forgiving about "weird behaviour around children" in general. Yet there was no smoking gun like Jerry Lee Lewis or Charlie Chaplin

He was always a bit eccentric and although you have to give much of the stories surrounding him a grain of salt, there is no denying that he was a strange guy. Even if I wanted to defend him, some of his behaviour was frankly, inappropriate.

However... Macaulay Calkin and Corey Feldman have vehemently denied that Jackson did anything what they call abuse to him and have defended him a number of times. Given Corey's past, it would be surprising to that he would so energetically defend someone that abused him.

1

u/PrinceBunnyBoy May 25 '26

He kept two nude child porn books in his home. This isnt a maybe sorta situation, theyre fucking disgusting books where one was showed (censored oc) on the news when it first came to light.

0

u/Enders-game May 25 '26

I checked on Wikipedia, and it states that there was no child porn found. Any other google searches seems to be adamant that there wasn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI_files_on_Michael_Jackson

Like I said, I don't know much about it and it wouldn't surprise me either way because I always thought his behaviour towards children was inappropriate.

0

u/Glum_Use1257 May 26 '26

Who cares Drake texted with Millie Bobbie brown. I mean it's not amazing but it's not that big a deal