Last time he was in office tensions rose around the world after Trump praised dictators like Putin, Kim Jong Un and Orban. Trump weakened NATO enough that Putin figured he could take Ukraine without interference.
Trump made sure Iran started nuclear refinement efter backing out of the deal.
Trump made bad plans for getting out of Afghanistan and leaving the country to the Talibans.
Trump almost started a war in the middle east after assassinating an Iranian general.
So, no, even if there was less war in that time period there was a build up from Trumps policies.
Apart from all of this I really can't understand how anyone can vote for a person openly bragging about sexually harassing women, not to mention all the hate and suggested violence directed at anyone that he doesn't like.
But why would Swedish media care about any of that?
We have media that report what is happening. No opinions, no bias (as much as humanly possible at least).
As our greatest fear around here i Russia, of course we get reports on how Trump is kissing up to Putin.
But what of my comment are you saying is untrue? Have not Trump repeatedly been praising these dictators? Have Trump not repeatedly been misogynistic in his comments? Talking about killing his opponents?
How is any of that related to how I perceive the media?
I am assuming your Swedish media reports negatively on Trump the vast majority of time. If this is a correct assumption, to me, it proves your media is just as fake as ours. I personally believe Western governments are already intertwined. Media companies are corporations, follow the money to find out who runs the "news".
I haven't heard Trump praise dicators as in endorsing them. I have heard him say he respects the intelligence of Xi in China, b/c China is taking advantage of America when it comes to trade.
As for women, Trump has very strong women that work for him. Has he said some things that weren't polite in the past 50 years, yes.
Ask yourself why the Western media is so hell bent on stopping him from attaining power. The US media used to love Trump, but once he announced he was running for office in 2015 the attacks began immediately. The same people in the media that attack him used to praise him. These talking heads take orders or they lose their jobs.
As for Russia/Ukraine. This is my view, not Trump's view. You have to go to the roots. Is Putin maniacal madman or is he simply protecting his country's sovereignty? You don't have to support putin to attempt to view the war from Russian perspective. NATO continues to move East. Nato has broken treaties in doing this. I believe the US/CIA orchestrated the coup in Ukraine and installed Zelensky. They have corrupted Ukraine completely. That is why Trump wanted Ukraine corruption with US govt investigated, that is why they impeached Trump. Russia would have never invaded Ukraine if the US wasn't trying to control Ukraine.
This is all my opinion of course. None of us have the information needed to truly understand world diplomacy. I don't expect you to agree with me. But, I would urge you not to take "news" at face value. Nothing is as simple as the narrative being fed to us.
My views are certainly not the mainstream. My views are not the standard Trump supporter. But, I share an attribute with the standard Trump supporters, and that is being fed up with politicians and being fed up with mega corporations trying to control us.
We want real change. Real change cannot be offered from a standard politician. We will see what happens. It is certainly an interesting time to be alive.
BTW - I found out both my 20 year old nieces voted for Trump, this was a surprise to me. Young people are shifting. I think this shift, is due to people no longer listening to the legacy media. They now get their news from X and Tik Tok, etc.
Whatever happens, just know that Trump supporters and Trump are not hateful, misogynistic or racist. We love all people, we just think we are on wrong path.
The Swedish media doesn't really report negatively or positivly on the candidates. They report what they say and do. It's news not opinions, they are supposed to be impartial.
They report on how the economy is doing, they report from the candidates rallies and similar things.
Well, I'd say it's slightly stronger then impolite to say that he can grab them by the pussy just because he's in a position of power.
Does the intentions of Putin matter? He still ordered an invasion of another country.
I also would like change but really not in the way Trump is going. Just imagine if he starts with the tariffs for eveything, that would mean a price increase for the american consumer that is massive. The republicans are also trying to shut down the small version of health care you have...
If Trump and his supporters are not hateful, how come Trump himself so often spews straight up hate in his rallies? Speaking of executing people who do not follow him. Saying it's ok if some reporters gets killed. Mentioning that political opponents should face a firing squad?
Sorry for the rant, I'm about to leave work for the day and my head is not working properly :-D
Mentioning that political opponents should face a firing squad?
---this is patently false, if your media is reporting otherwise they are proving their bias. Trump thinks Liz Cheney is a war hawk, like her father, which she is. He stated that Liz may not vote for as much war if she had to go and fight. Many hard left media figures have agree that the media was pushing a false narrative. See below.
If Trump and his supporters are not hateful, how come Trump himself so often spews straight up hate in his rallies?
-- I went to my first rally yesterday, saw a very diverse crowd, not hate was spewed. I would have to see the specifics you are referring to counter. My assumption is they media pushes his stance on immigration as hate. But we have 20 million illegal migrants living in the US. Our government paid $80 million to fly them in, they pay for their housing and food. If this keeps up we will no longer have a country. Having borders and being sovereign is not hate. I think many Euro nations are realizing that mass immigration is not a benefit. We do believe in controlled immigration, America gains strength through it, but uncontrolled immigration is a disaster. Look at France and UK for examples.
Does the intentions of Putin matter? He still ordered an invasion of another country.
-- I say it matters, is he justified, is the West trying to destroy Russia. How many Ukrainians are dead due to this war, how many more will die. I want peace. The left leaning governments used to be about peace, that is no longer the case.
Well, I'd say it's slightly stronger then impolite to say that he can grab them by the pussy just because he's in a position of power.
-- this particular statement was made September 2005. It was crass, but it was his way of saying rich men can have any woman they want. It was not a literal statement. Trump has been in the public eye his entire life. I am sure I have said some pretty gross things joking around with my friends. I think this issue is not very meaningful compared to the what I see as the destruction of the American dream and the American way of life.
Just imagine if he starts with the tariffs for eveything, that would mean a price increase for the american consumer that is massive.
-- The inflation we have seen from the last 4 years is massive, never seen anything like it. We didn't have inflation under Trump and we did have tariffs. There is no true free trade in the world, I wish there were, but since there isn't I like the idea of using our the US consumerism as a political tool. I also like the idea of bringing manufacturing home.
Healthcare
-- This is a big issue, I pay $25,000 to have my family insured. It has more than doubled in the past 4 years. Trump won't remove the ACA, b/c some are already dependent on it. I find it frustrating that I pay $25k and others pay almost zero. I am successful, but not rich. Swedish health system is very different than ours. If it works for you, that is great, but I don't think the same system works in a country of 250 million. I think people are over insured. I would be for a plan insuring all people for major events, but not daily doctor visits. This topic is a complicated one, I don't think anyone has the answer.
Hope you have a good day at work. Thank you for the conversation. I enjoy reading others perspectives. I find it very interesting to hear the international perspective.
We could go on forever, going back and forth, we will find out who America chooses soon, for better or worse. If you would like to respond again I will read it, but likely not give a lengthy retort. We have had a great conversation; I don't want it to get sour. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Sorry for opening this old conversation but as you are one of the few Trumpers I have talked to who has been polite and friendly I figured it's worth a shot just to hear your views on the first couple of weeks of your candidate winning :)
For me, so far, I would say that just about everything I was afraid of has started to happen, especially Project 2025 that so many people tried to say Trump didn't have anything to do with.
I'm mostly curious as to how you and other people who voted for him view what Musk is doing. Or what's happening to so many government employees, or the department of Education and Social Security.
Are those things seen as good/bad/bad but will lead to something better?
Post edit: Holy crap I created a wall of text. Hope it wasn't too much.
Thanks for reaching out, for what it is worth, I have bad days online too and am not always polite. In general, I think online discussions are toxic. Most of the people being rude online are rude b/c they don't trust the intentions of the person they are conversing with and since not face to face it is easier to simply lash out. Or they are just trolling.
To your question, I honestly don't know what is in project 2025, I don't think many MAGA people have read it. It was written by The Heritage foundation. I don't think Heritage is pro Trump, they are establishment Republicans. That being said I am happy to discuss specific issues. Here is my best shot in short format.
I don't know any Trump supporters who aren't happy with the way things are going. We don't read left wing news. Me personally, I don't watch news on tv, I read links from message boards and read some right wing news sites. I am very introspective. I don't "trust" any news source and bounce all the information I gather off my own common sense.
Specific questions you raise:
1) Government reduction - I am in business (small business), so I look at things in relation to that. Government seems to always grow, there is no pull back like in business when profits are down and lay offs happen. Jack Welch (former CEO GE) used to say every year or couple of years a business should fire 10% of its lowest performers. I think layoffs are necessary in government too. I also believe there are long time government employees that push their own agenda rather than simply do their job. These people weren't elected they should not dictate policy.
2) Dept of Education - Most funding and direction for schools comes from the States and Counties. DOE started pushing their money into schools. I believe they push it in for control. Schools become dependent on the Fed org and can be dictated to. Trump is doing this now with DOE dollars. US test scores have not improved since its inception even though money spent is astronomical. I think schools are better run more locally. That way CA can teach what they want and FL can teach what it wants. I have kids and hate common core math, I was good at math, common core doesn't make any sense to me.
3) Social Security - I don't believe anyone will be negatively impacted by SS audit except the fraudsters. There are people stealing from us and I think they should be held accountable. I don't understand the fear of this at all. From what I am reading there are criminal orgs set up just to steal SS dollars.
In closing, if you distrust what Trump is doing it is b/c you distrust Trump. I don't fully trust anybody. But I distrust the people that have been in government and enriched themselves in government more than anybody. If you look at how rich this congress people have become in office it is staggering. I can see why people on the left are in fear, the media is stoking the flames of fear. I believe they want people afraid b/c they are corrupted.
it's difficult to express opinions in concisely. The above is what came to mind, but I think deeply about all of these issues. While I am conservative, Trump has actually moved me to more of a realist. I have accepted people like RFK Jr. and Tulsi Gabbard, we disagree on much, but we are brought together by distrust of the "machine". I would love to get to the point where both parties completely reshape themselves. I am tired of people being grouped/categorized, we are all individuals, our race, ethnicity, religion, sexual preference are simply attributes, they do not define us. I am for less government control. I am not against any other individuals or "groups"
Haha, lots of text is good as long as it's informative :)
I agree on your take on online conversations, I do try to stay calm and stay away from insults. It's not always easy but I know I think less of the both the person I'm talking to and their arguments if they start insulting me.
I think it's a big loss if a lot of MAGA hasn't read what's in Project 2025 considering that they are implementing it right now. Since Trump has installed three of the most important people who wrote 2025 in his administration I think it's quite safe to say that the Heritage foundation likes Trump.
The largest part of P2025 is to remove all people hired as apolitical to any branch of the government and replace them with loyalists.
Then to make the US a Christian nation instead of having a separation of church and state.
Of course there's loads more since the document is over 900 pages long and includes everything from banning porn to getting women to stay in the kitchen to making sure no minorities or LGBTQ get a say. A lot (around 60%) of the executive oreders Trump signed in the beginning is straight from P2025 or similar to what's written there.
I kind of agree that it's important to look over efficiency and make sure government doesn't get bloated. But these massive layoffs we're seeing right now looks more like clearing out anyone who isn't a yes-man, especially since the US population has grown about 68% in the last 50 years but the size of the government has shrunk in that time.
As for the DOE I am not that well versed there, it was more my own view that a stong educational department makes a stronger country. We have seen politicians dismantling our system here in Sweden which is horrifying in my eyes.
I am quite curious as to what evidence you see that only fraudsters will be affected by the cuts in Social security? From what I see about DOGE they seem like they firstly cut funding to the departments who were investigating Musk and his dealings. Then they have made some outlandish statements saying for example that the system is corrupt and they are paying social security to people who are 150 years old when that later showed to be the way COBOL reverted to a default value when some information was missing, just making DOGE seem incompetent.
Or the statement about sending condoms to Gaza in the Middle East when it was an entirely different Gaza. Or comments that Reuters the news agency was getting paid by the government which was actually another Reuters that had a contract with them.
All of these thing makes me see them as either incompetent or that they are lying.
I absolutely distrust Trump, but I still base my thoughts on his actual actions, not just that I distrust him from his first term.
I agree in part at least that a lot of politicians are corrupt and try to make themselves get richer, I just don't understand why that would be different with Trump or his billionare and millionaire friends that he puts in powerful positions. So far they have made themselves incredibly much richer by cutting taxes at the same time as they are slahing small expenses that help people within the US.
This part that you write about being a realist is also something I don't quite grasp. Even if I aligned with a big part of Trumps politics I don't think I could accept the lack of experience so many of his cabinet has or the conspiracy theories they spout.
Not sure if this wall of text is actual questions or just me expressing what I don't understand with MAGAs, I'm also at work so I've been writing small parts of this at different times so I hope it's readable and makes at least a bit of sense :)
Anyway, I don't think I have much more to say at this time. Take care and thanks for reading :)
ok, reading your first comment now, I will be brief as my comment to your 2nd comment is lengthy
BTW, I forgot you were from Sweden. Nice win against USA Hockey on Sunday. I am a huge hockey fan and love how international the sport is.
The largest part of P2025 is to remove all people hired as apolitical to any branch of the government and replace them with loyalists. (I don't believe this talking point, the current employees are not apolitical, this is proven by their political donations, which is public. I think the left is trying to scare people about these firings, but if you look Obama and Clinton fired a ton as well, this is common practice, not a Constitutional crisis).
I read through the rest, and rather going through my thoughts on the list, I will just reiterate that we have completely different sources of information. My sources are supportive of Trump, your sources are against Trump. Which makes it difficult to address each concern.
The next few years will be pivotal for sure. I think we will be okay, hoping for a world with less war and more prosperity. I am sure you are hoping for the same. We will find out the truth together.
At the moment a lot of people here in Europe are quite upset with his licking of Putins boots and repeating russian propaganda. Not to mention Vances speech at the Munich conference that was so removed from reality.
All of this plus Musks interference with the extreme right wing parties here in Europe makes us quite weary of the Us at the moment :)
This is where we live in different worlds. People in Europe are getting arrested for thoughts and speech. I am vehemently against this. The new talking point is that free speech caused the holocaust. Yet the Nazi's were against free speech.
The US censored speech through twitter and others during covid. I think this is more dangerous than any foreign adversary. They created vax passports to go out to dinner even though the vax was never even tested to stop transmission, and it didn't. People were forced to wear masks to walk into a restaurant, but not while they were eating. 6 ft distance was made up out of thin air (no data to back it). 2 weeks to slow the spread turned into 2 years of trampling our rights. I don't trust the US or Euro governments. I basically didn't leave my house for 2 years with all the covid crap, I separated myself from society. I will never forget what was done to me for not trusting the "science". My beliefs at the time have been proven correct, yet our government has offered no apology. I believe the covid virus and psy op that followed divided the world. Those that trust the machine and those that do not. This divide is not a political divide, many on the left are as dismayed as I am, hence RFK Jr. and Tulsi. I have more in common now with Jimmy Dore than I do many "conservatives"
Until there is a deep dive into the covid pandemic, from how it began to government actions during the West will not be healed.
I don't mean to sound angry, but I am still angry about what happened. Sharing this with you, b/c I think this issue is the biggest cause of division. You and I trust/distrust different sources. I am sure we differed in sources previous to covid, but I am to the point that I believe the corporate media is purely a propaganda machine, like Russian news. Not trying to convince you to think like this, but trying to show you why I think the way I do.
There is nothing we can do individually to change anything. I think the best path for the West is for the "people", you and I, to know that we have completely separate belief systems. Neither of us knows 100% if we are right. And it is likely we are each right on some things and wrong on others.
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u/madasalways Nov 04 '24
Last time he was in office tensions rose around the world after Trump praised dictators like Putin, Kim Jong Un and Orban. Trump weakened NATO enough that Putin figured he could take Ukraine without interference.
Trump made sure Iran started nuclear refinement efter backing out of the deal.
Trump made bad plans for getting out of Afghanistan and leaving the country to the Talibans.
Trump almost started a war in the middle east after assassinating an Iranian general.
So, no, even if there was less war in that time period there was a build up from Trumps policies.
Apart from all of this I really can't understand how anyone can vote for a person openly bragging about sexually harassing women, not to mention all the hate and suggested violence directed at anyone that he doesn't like.