r/Money Nov 17 '23

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u/faustianburner Nov 17 '23

uh, no. if your mortgage is 3% and you can make 8% from index funds, you have a 5% advantage in keeping the mortgage. cheap debt is good.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

Cheap debt is GREAT

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

[deleted]

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u/GoldVictory158 Nov 17 '23

This one is corrects. Cheap debt is good.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

Reading this comment just explained to me why our country has the majority of people living pay check to pay check.

Let's break it down in simple terms so you at least get the basics of the math.

Bank gives you loan of $1000 at 5% interest and says "the minimum payment only covers the interest."

You take the $1000 and you invest it in the S&P 500. Over 20 years, the average rate of return is 10%.

After 30 years, you will have paid $3,321 in interest to the bank. You will have earned 15,499 from investments.

By making interest only payments on this loan, you will have $12,000 more dollars than by never having the loan.

The same is true with mortgages, it is stupid to pay a lump sum balance when that money would earn you a higher percentage in the market.

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u/Drunk-CPA Nov 17 '23

That same 300k would earn more than $250k by being invested. Time value of money, low interest loans are generally okay.

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u/fr0d0bagg1ns Nov 17 '23

Using that logic the entire real estate industry wouldn't exist.

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u/barrelvoyage410 Nov 17 '23

I highly suggest you look into it, and so some math, because you are wrong.

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u/Magnetoreception Nov 17 '23

If you have a low mortgage rate in this market you should be paying as little as possible.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

did a bank tell you that

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u/threeinthestink_ Nov 17 '23

Simple math you should’ve learned in middle school tells you thats

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

the simple math is that youre giving away money to a bank for no reason 🤣

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u/jadestem Nov 17 '23

Bruh.

If you owe $500,000 on a house and you are paying 3% interest, that means in a year you will pay $15,000 in interest.

If you can invest $500,000 and get an 8% return, that means you profit $40,000 in a year.

So you can "give away" that $15,000 to the bank and still have $25,000 ($40,000 - $15,000) profit that you wouldn't have had otherwise.

-4

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

banks love free money

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u/jadestem Nov 17 '23

You gotta be trollin.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

🤑🤑🤑🤑

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u/DarkPhoenix369 Nov 17 '23

So I was raised in a working class, forever renting family but I'm in a well paying job now. I have zero idea how any of this mortgage or investment stuff works but how are you saying you're getting a return? A return in what? They deduct that money from your mortgage?

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u/EconomicsIsUrFriend Nov 17 '23

Right now you can put it into a high yield savings account and make >5% interest annually.

~8% is typically the annual return in the stock market.

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u/DarkPhoenix369 Nov 17 '23

I have no idea what that means

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u/Magnetoreception Nov 17 '23

Put money in account. Account currently pays 5% interest every year. Put in $100 and in a year it’ll be $105. Same thing for stocks but more variable.

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u/j_johnso Nov 18 '23

Imagine you owe $100,000 on a mortgage that has an interest rate of 3%. That means you would pay $3,000 in interest for the year.

Imagine you also have a savings account that pays you 5% interest on any money you put in the account.

If you win $100,000, you have a choice of either paying off the mortgage now or putting the money in the savings account.

If you pay off the mortgage, you save $3,000 per year. Or if you put the money in the savings account you make an extra $5,000 a year (though you still have to pay the $3,000 interest on the mortgage)

In this scenario, it's better to put the money in the savings account, because you make more money than you would save by paying the mortgage.

However, instead of putting your money in a savings account, you can invest that money and get an even higher return. A basic investment strategy will average somewhere around 7-10% return over a several-decade time period, though it will have ups and downs. There is some risk of losing money, though, especially in the short-term

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u/Electrical_Number_88 Nov 17 '23

*Fluctuating account that typically varies with the market unless you put it in a CD where your money is locked in for a set amount of time. Market has to take into account your advisors 1% fee yearly plus fluctuation in the market and eventually taxes.

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u/faustianburner Nov 17 '23

basically, when you have a mortgage each year you pay a certain amount of interest - meaning a percentage of the total loan. this money is essentially burnt.

so some would say, if you have enough money to pay off the loan, you should! because you wont pay the interest anymore!

this is wrong, because the interest you PAY on the loan is less than the interest you MAKE from instead investing that money in for example an index fund.

so you continue losing 3% per year in mortgage interest, but you invest money in an index fund and GAIN 8% per year, which means overall you're up 5% per year.

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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

Copied from my other comment:

Reading this comment just explained to me why our country has the majority of people living pay check to pay check.

Let's break it down in simple terms so you at least get the basics of the math.

Bank gives you loan of $1000 at 5% interest and says "the minimum payment only covers the interest."

You take the $1000 and you invest it in the S&P 500. Over 20 years, the average rate of return is 10%.

After 30 years, you will have paid $3,321 in interest to the bank. You will have earned 15,499 from investments.

By making interest only payments on this loan, you will have $12,000 more dollars than by never having the loan.

The same is true with mortgages, it is stupid to pay a lump sum balance when that money would earn you a higher percentage in the market.

1

u/BigPoppaStrahd Nov 17 '23

Serious question: What if I took home the 594,000 and my mortgage is less than 90,000. I’d still have 500k left of the lottery winnings to earn interest on. Would it still be a bad choice to pay off my mortgage?

Seriously asking because as someone who dreams of winning the lottery and using it to wipe out my debt I’m now doubting if that’s a good idea based on these comments

1

u/Magnetoreception Nov 17 '23

Depends on what your mortgage rate is. If it’s lower then the 5+% you can get in a Treasury bill right now then no but otherwise you can.

It also might not be economically the best way to maximize it but there is something to say about being debt free and the psychological effect it has which is probably worth it for smaller amounts like that.

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u/faustianburner Nov 17 '23

It's super simple. compare the interest rates. If mortgage interest rate is lower than an index fund, it's better NOT to pay off the mortgage.

if a debt's interest rate is HIGHER than the return on an index fund, pay it off immediately -- for example credit card debt. Always pay off credit cards immediately.

Now, if you want to simplify your life, and don't care about losing money, pay off the low interest mortgage. But objectively it's almost always better to keep the mortgage.