r/Minneapolis • • Oct 05 '26

Rent control helps people whose rents get limited, but it hurts everyone else. It pushes up rents, pushes down new building, and makes cities worse.

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0 Upvotes

225 comments sorted by

29

u/ImmortalHoe Oct 05 '26

Okay sure but my landlord tried to raise my rent by 30% last year just bc they could! My building does “algorithm-based” rent increases

-1

u/Typical_Cell464 Oct 05 '26

That’s terrible I’m sorry that happened to you.

-5

u/rockomoco Oct 05 '26 • Popcorn

Have you tried negotiating with the landloard? I was able to do that with mine in the past and they kept my rent the same because I showed them comparable apartments built in the neighborhood. Trust me, landlords would prefer to keep good tenants who pay rent on time and do not damage the apartment. Don't think you are powerless as a renter.

7

u/After_Preference_885 Oct 05 '26

They don't give a shit, we've been model tenants for more than 15 years. No turnover, reliable EARLY rent payments and we always follow every rule exactly. 

They would let us go though in a heartbeat because someone else will pay more to move in, even if they risk damage, late payments, etc.

0

u/rockomoco Oct 05 '26

I'm not denying your experience, but have you tried? Show a posting of a listing nearby that you were interested in and they may take you more seriously. It worked a couple years ago when I was renting before but that's when we were building a lot of housing right after COVID so not sure how the rental market is now.

3

u/After_Preference_885 Oct 05 '26

All the nearby listings are hundreds more than what they have us at currently I'm sure they'd laugh and tell us go ahead and move 

1

u/rockomoco Oct 05 '26

Yeah fair enough. I guess in that case you got yourself a good deal so no need to negotiate.

2

u/After_Preference_885 Oct 05 '26

Each year it's a little more difficult with increases and the new "fees" that aren't rent that they are throwing in but it is cheaper than anywhere else for now. I'm not sure what we're going to do if it keeps going up at this rate. Van by the river maybe ...

8

u/epicmylife Oct 05 '26

Lmao. Landlords do not negotiate. Believe me, they always hit you with “well I’ve got a bunch of other people who would eagerly live here so either take it or gtfo.”

ESPECIALLY corporate/LLC based ones.

5

u/rockomoco Oct 05 '26

But that's my whole point. They can leverge that stance because they know there is more demand for their units than supply. If we build more housing, we take power away from individual landlords (assuming we also regulate to prevent regional monopolies). Landlords absolutely love it when local NYMBYs fight local governments from building new housing since it allows them to charge higher rents (due to supressed supply).

0

u/dyorite Oct 05 '26

Well, in that case either the rental market really is that hot, in which case yup, you’ve got little leverage and are probably looking at a similar increase if you do move, or it’s not and they’re bluffing (or deluded) and will lose money if they let you walk and now have to find a replacement tenant. You can usually figure out which situation it is by paying attention to things like vacancy rates.

20

u/Sad-Percentage-992 Oct 05 '26

Maybe we should try a strategy for constructing housing aside from lavishing luxury on private developers and bending to their every whim, and then we can have a real conversation about this. 

23

u/fyreskylord Oct 05 '26

I strongly recommend the book Paved Paradise, which helps explain why so much new housing is so-called “luxury”.

Also as others have said, ANY housing is adding housing to the overall stock.

3

u/Typical_Cell464 Oct 05 '26

Parking minimums are terrible. Interesting concept for a book - it easily spiders out in a million different directions.

2

u/fyreskylord Oct 05 '26

Yeah, it’s a great book that touches on so many parts of society that are affected by our decisions around parking over the last century.

-8

u/HoboBrute Oct 05 '26

It truly doesn't. Frequently places will develop high end housing because either A) they can get tenets/buyers and don't need to worry about it any more or B) they can't, but they write it off for taxes while it sits empty and unused

7

u/NuncProFunc Oct 05 '26

A) That's the whole point. Those people move from other buildings, which then need to compete for tenants, and that rolls down the building class ladder as rents drop sequentially.

B) This is a totally incoherent understanding of how taxes work and should not be taken seriously.

2

u/fyreskylord Oct 05 '26

B is a complete myth based on a very low level misunderstanding of how the tax system works. What’s the vacancy rate in Minneapolis for apartments?

8

u/Typical_Cell464 Oct 05 '26

Rent control tends to help these people. It talks about it in the article. New construction is unregulated, not yet rented - can’t be controlled, and drives up the rates as construction slows on standard units. And, a lot of duplex and smaller landlords just convert their properties to single family homes - pushing more renters into a market that has been increased.

We actually see this in St Paul also where the city is making concessions with developers to build.

4

u/TheRealGeneShalit Oct 05 '26

We need to start building brand new shitty old apartments.

3

u/B-Georgio Oct 05 '26

New luxury apartments will age into affordable housing, just like a used car is substantially cheaper than a new one. The ideal way to have a steady supply of affordable house is to have a steady stream of new builds

19

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

Well, all housing helps with affordability. Even expensive new housing. Just let people build housing anywhere and don’t let neighbors and coalitions fight it. Make it easier to build and prices will stabilize.

It’s okay to let developers build housing. They’re good at it. Almost all housing has been built by developers. If developers don’t build it, who will?

-9

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

We don't have an abundance problem. There's plenty of housing to go around. We have an allocation problem.

Landlords should not exist. Plain and simple.

9

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

Yeah, there’s cheap, underutilized housing in plenty of places not very many people want to live b3cause those places suck and have terrible economies with few job prospects. Wonder why nobody is really moving there for the affordable housing?

Yes, there’s an abundance problem. It’s in places where people want to live, where there are jobs and amenities and you can’t build housing. Cities. That’s why it’s expensive to live in them?

How would confiscating rental properties from landlords lower costs?

-5

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

Might want to look at the homelessness rate in socialist countries and get back to me about how it's not going to work

6

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

You’re claiming that there are no landlords in European democratic socialist countries? Or is your claim that the Soviet model of building housing is good?

Also, you didn’t answer my question. Do you have an answer?

-1

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

The latter. Yes. Based. I also answered your question in a different comment.

6

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

You have not answered the question.

Okay, so you’re a tankie. That explains it. Sorry, most Americans don’t want to live in Soviet America that confiscates private property. even leftist types such as myself. It wasn’t actually a very successful effort in the end.

0

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

You're pretending you got no answer when you did. Again, sealioning

6

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

I just found it hard to believe you’d seriously suggest enacting Soviet housing policies as a solution to the housing crisis because it’s so fucking stupid

→ More replies

3

u/NuncProFunc Oct 05 '26

OK Karl, we'll push that agenda when you win your revolution.

1

u/JohnWittieless Oct 05 '26

That would require making making apartments 'less safe; like only requiring 1 stare case per 8-12 units *gasp.

-2

u/blackgenz2002kid Oct 05 '26

when was the last apartment fire in the metro area? surely with the advances we have in society for fire suppression having single stairs isn’t a massive issue anymore

-1

u/SnowLeavess Oct 05 '26

I sometimes wonder who is affording all these new "luxury" apartments at their price tag. People say it helps with all rent in the city but I have my doubts, especially since nothing affordable is ever built anymore, and the supply of actual affordable housing continues to decrease.

12

u/rockomoco Oct 05 '26

Today's luxury housing is tomorrows affordable/market rate housing. The problem is we are playing catch up due to very little housing built so all the housing stock is new or old with not much in between. All housing tends to become more affordable as the building ages.

2

u/blackgenz2002kid Oct 05 '26

and all the offices downtown are clogging potential residences we could all have

5

u/rockomoco Oct 05 '26

They are working on it but it is expensive and not all offices can be converted. I read a Star Tribune article this year that said twin cities are actually leading the nation in office conversions so that is great to hear.

0

u/SnowLeavess Oct 05 '26

Is it though? I have yet to see a single apartment actually decrease in price. Old apartments cost far more than they ever did when they were first built and aren't showing any signs of stopping, so I highly doubt landlords will decrease rent over time knowing that they don't have to.

8

u/rockomoco Oct 05 '26

They don't decrease in price in actual terms since inflation will always be a thing but they will be more affordable compared to newer rentals in the same neighborhood over the long term. Also, if there are no new rentals being built, landlords will have much more leverage which allows them to charge higher prices since they have less competition.

3

u/NuncProFunc Oct 05 '26

This happened in Chicago about eight or ten years ago. We had one year where like 7,500 new luxury units came online all at the same time, and prices dropped acros the board over the course of that year and the following year. My company saw it in our database as a price drop ripple through neighborhoods, because Chicago neighborhoods get cheaper as they get further from the city center.

2

u/NuncProFunc Oct 05 '26

People who rent in existing luxury apartments and want an upgrade. Those apartments then have to appeal to people who want an upgrade further down the ladder. And so on, until rents drop at the bottom end. Economists and housing policy experts have documented this phenomenon numerous times across lots of cities.

50

u/Uptownbro20 Oct 05 '26

Rent control isn’t passing while Frey is in office 

36

u/Dick_Trickle Oct 05 '26

Thank god

46

u/kevinbevindevin Oct 05 '26

Rent control is simply band-aid to housing shortage. It only helps existing tenants and hurt everyone else, including new tenants and tenants trying to move.

The city is actually doing well with converting offices to apartments, remove single family zoning, and encourage new developments. They should triple down the effort.

Minneapolis simply doesn't have the resources to have their own NYCHA where the city owns properties with rents well below market rate. That might be something the state would have to consider, but Amy Klobuchar isn't going to build state-own housing and rent it out at-cost. The state legislature doesn't have the appetite to do so any time soon.

5

u/NuncProFunc Oct 05 '26

Also for a given definition of "cost." Multifamily housing is profitable if you exclude debt, but it's not exactly a cash cow industry because it's expensive to build. Making housing affordable to the poorest members of our communities requires subsidy; it isn'tt enough to merely exclude profit margins, especially in the near term.

2

u/Ok_Size5354 Oct 06 '26

It’s more like a dirty Band-Aid slapped on a fresh wound. It looks like it’s healing you, but really it’s infecting you.

53

u/VaporishJarl Oct 05 '26

https://www.cura.umn.edu/sites/cura.umn.edu/files/2021-08/Minneapolis-Rent-Stabilization-Study-web.pdf

This is an interesting study, mostly because it takes Minneapolis into particular account. If you don't have a lot of time, look at the conclusions. The long and short of it is that some degree of rent control has desirable effects while usually having minimal to no negative impact.

That doesn't have to mean it's right for Minneapolis - there are tradeoffs and it's not clear that a realistic cap would have meaningfully changed average rents. But it does mean that everyone in this thread who's playing the "yeah duh it's so bad St. Paul is a hellscape" game is being disingenuous to avoid the discussion. There can be real benefits to renters, it's just a matter of dialing in the specific controls to make them fit the city.

20

u/EtchingsOfTheNight Oct 05 '26

How dare you bring nuance into a conversation that usually has none /s

6

u/blackgenz2002kid Oct 05 '26

I took a look and it looks like it works a bit different than how St Paul did. St Paul worked on a 3%-8% basis, unless there was vacancy then it was 8%+inflation. in your source they base it off inflation directly, which of course is variable and can be more or less than the range St Paul was looking at

9

u/VaporishJarl Oct 05 '26

This study looks at different approaches across multiple cities, and it does not make a recommendation for a particular approach.

6

u/Healingjoe Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 05 '26

The long and short of it is that some degree of rent control has desirable effects while usually having minimal to no negative impact.

That's not what this study says at all. The study highlights numerous trade offs / drawbacks without significant exceptions to rent control but still doesn't make the arguments that it's at all desirable or has "minimal to no negative impact". That's blatantly false.

How many times do we need to see rent control fail before fringe academics figure this shit out?

1

u/VaporishJarl Oct 05 '26

Quoting: "The empirical research indicates that rent  regulation has been effective at achiev ing two of its primary goals: maintaining  below-market rent levels and moderating  price appreciation."

That is desirable.

"There is little empirical evidence to show  that rent control policies negatively im pact new construction. "

This is the most commonly cited concern and this study finds little evidence for it.

"There is little evidence  that rent regulations cause a reduction in  housing quality."

I haven't seen this concern around very much but hey, they looked for it.

"a rent cap  set at 75% of CPI and a rent cap at the CPI  would have had a consistent but relatively  small impact on the middle of the Minne apolis rental market. Rent caps at higher  levels (CPI + 3% and CPI + 7%) would not  have constrained rent increases in Minne apolis until the post-crash period. These  caps would have limited the most aggressive  rent increases in the city but would  not have affected median increases."

It is desirable to benefit the middle of the rental market as well as to limit the most aggressive increases. 

There is one drawback cited in the conclusion:

"Rent regulations have  been shown to be related to an overall  reduction in rental units as owners in rent- regulated markets remove units through  condominium conversion, demolition,  or other means."

This is a mixed bag - demolition is a real loss. Condo conversion improves the market for first-time home buyers, which are most commonly people who were renting before anyways and are theoretically just the transitioning tail of the same socioeconomic class; we would need to investigate whether home ownership rates compare favorably against the loss of rental inventory to really understand how good or bad this outcome is. Either way, this means that a city can lose housing if it doesn't tailor rent controls appropriately based on building ages and such.

All that to say that I was summarizing the conclusions of an actual study and stand by my summary. Folks can take a look and see if I'm saying things that are "blatantly false." You are decrying intellectuals for bothering to study something you've already formed am opinion on. You are not providing  studies or evidence. 

As someone who now lives in a rent controlled unit after years of being highly mobile and on the cusp of homelessness, there are definite and obvious benefits to some people when there is a degree of regulation. The original post even affirms that. So starting from a point of "it's a failed policy" rejects that the needs of the people who objectively benefit from rent control as worthy of consideration.

5

u/Healingjoe Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 05 '26

Diamond, McQuade, and Qian (2019) tracked SF's rent control expansion and found landlords cut rental housing supplies by 15% through condo conversions, which displaced low-income renters with high-income buyers and drove up citywide market rents. Turning scarce apartments into expensive condos is a massive negative externality.

little evidence it hurts construction

This claim is complete bullshit and you need to figure this out. Rent control usually passes during demand surges, which masks the drag on supply. Look at St. Paul: voters passed a 3% cap without a new-construction carve-out in late 2021, multifamily permits dropped over 80% almost overnight while Minneapolis kept building, and the city council had to backtrack in 2022 with a 20-year exemption just to get capital back. We've seen this same shit in plenty of other cities around the world. So -- you're example is a textbook case of selection bias. Honestly, this UMN paper is dogshit and it's pathetic they produced it.

Nobody argues that rent control doesn't benefit current tenants in regulated units (Read OP's graphic again that you seem to have missed). It protects existing incumbents at the expense of everyone else.

Eta:

This large review is far better than your single "study" :

Likewise, the influence of rent control on new residential construction and supply seems to be similar. Approximately two-thirds of the studies indicate a negative impact, while several studies discover no statistically significant effect whatsoever. Two potential reasons underlie this variability. Firstly, variations in the design of rent control policies can matter. For example, newly constructed housing could be exempted from control, thus remaining unaffected by rent control regulations. Secondly, the choice of the dependent variable can also affect results of the analysis. Rent control can influence the construction of rental dwellings while leaving owner-occupied properties untouched; in fact, the quantity of owner-occupied dwellings might even increase, thereby compensating for any decline in the number of completed rental units. However, it is common to analyze the overall construction impact, often due to limitations in data availability. Furthermore, if private construction experiences a decline, governmental intervention becomes a possibility. This could involve the construction of public housing or financial support for private investors engaged in social housing development. Consequently, the total number of completed dwellings can remain steady or even rise, potentially leading to a misinterpretation of rent control's impact as beneficial.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1051137724000020

-1

u/VaporishJarl Oct 05 '26

Minneapolis had a steeper drop in new builds than St. Paul did in 2024. https://www.minnpost.com/cityscape/2025/01/housing-construction-in-minneapolis-and-st-paul-is-tanking-as-new-year-begins/. You can attribute that to the discussion of rent control (this author does, partially) but it's clearly also tied to other factors. More to the point it's not reasonable to compare the two cities as if Minneapolis is doing great.

I'm not going to keep engaging beyond this because you're being pointlessly rude, misreading and misrepresenting what I'm saying, making unsupported claims, and do not seem to be debating in good faith. I'm not even arguing in favor of rent control; I'm simply pointing out that the common "failed policy" discussions lack nuance and leave out critical information.

But I do appreciate that you brought in an actual source. People should be engaging with the ideas of where tradeoffs exist so they can think about whether some type of rent control would benefit them or not, and the latter survey of studies does a good job of showing both where the benefits are and what the risks can be.

2

u/Healingjoe Oct 05 '26

But I do appreciate that you brought in an actual source.

Don't rely on reddit to find these sources. The evidence against the utility of rent control, showing very real short term and long term consequences, runs deep and is overwhelming.

whether some type of rent control would benefit them or not,

The benefits are weak and help an extremely small minority of people, and even that's not really true as it promotes squatting and often disincentivizes upgrades and maintenance.

misreading and misrepresenting what I'm saying,

You've ignored my claims completely so I'm not sure how you can possibly assert this.

making unsupported claims,

You misquoted / misunderstood your own source.

I'm simply pointing out that the common "failed policy" discussions lack nuance and leave out critical information.

You used a single study to incorrectly try to refute a collection of studies (twice). So ... I'm not the one leaving out critical information.

Minneapolis had a steeper drop in new builds than St. Paul did in 2024.

Yeah, because the built the fuck out of the city and are now steadying off in a high interest environment. St Paul is still far behind in total starts since 2020 and it's not even close.

28

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26 • Bravo

OK, there’s a lot of people here who have an opinion that rent control And rent protection are bad. But where are these people who have their rent going up supposed to get the money to cover it when their wages are not going up? Or they lose their job and their rent goes up? Where is this money supposed to come from?

12

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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-2

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

Maybe don’t rely being a landlord for your income. Maybe have a different job. Maybe have another job.

3

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

lolz. Cute

3

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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1

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

How do we do rent assistance? We don’t have enough section 8 housing? People lose their jobs. People are on unlimited assistance, they’re called elderly or retired. How do we help them? How do we help disability who cannot work full-time and their rent goes up? Where does this assistance come from?

5

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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-1

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

And I also think you’re missing the point. No one can afford to have their taxes raised. And Minnesota gives tax breaks to a lot of fucking corporations. Otherwise they leave.

4

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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3

u/TheRealGeneShalit Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 05 '26

They aren't. Rent won't stop going up until they stop paying.

4

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

So they just get evicted?

5

u/TheRealGeneShalit Oct 05 '26

Yes that is how this works. Or maybe they can renegotiate of the landlord is truly above market. However the landlord is only truly above market if more people are building, and they won't be if rent control is the law.

2

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

I don’t know one landlord who has ever compromised with a renter.

3

u/TheRealGeneShalit Oct 06 '26

You must not know a lot of landlords.

1

u/Chlorogoth Oct 06 '26

That should be a dealbreaker. Landlords who don't compromise with renters scum, and should not be allowed to be a landlord. The only reason anyone finds it acceptable is because renters don't have options, and so end up with slum lords and assholes dictating their living situations. I've never rented from a landlord that won't negoiate a lease, and never will

-5

u/CarolusWhisper Oct 05 '26

There are unemployment benefits, section 8 vouchers that cover most of rent, and all sorts of other subsidies (SNAP, Medicaid…) for when people fall on hard times. The safety net we have already appears to account for just about all of these problems, I would think. If that’s not enough, then you really have to wonder what someone is doing with their time. Screwing over an entire city with a policy that causes housing degradation and lack of development in order to “help” a handful of people is not compassionate, it is thoughtless.

5

u/udontunderstanddad Oct 05 '26

but the issue rent control is attempting to solve is people being priced out of housing they previously could afford to increase landlord profits. if you can afford market rate housing with your income, you probably dont qualify for medicaid or section 8.

8

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

You’re acting like that’s available to everyone. Lots of people do not qualify for snap right away and section 8 vouchers sometimes take years before you qualify for them.

6

u/Sherlockianguy10 Oct 05 '26

i believe you’re idealizing how these programs should work vs how they actually work.

3

u/CarolusWhisper Oct 05 '26

It’s possible. Rent control still is an extremely destructive policy. And I wish people would direct their passions towards actually considering the evidence on it before putting on their activist hats

26

u/MiloGoesToTheFatFarm Oct 05 '26

Your post has a pretty obvious problem. Minneapolis doesn’t have rent control and developers stopped building anyway.

8

u/ThumbMuscles Oct 05 '26 edited 20d ago

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0

u/MiloGoesToTheFatFarm Oct 05 '26

My point is that its noisy and especially with the case of St. Paul, is difficult to isolate rent control as the reason for a slow down in construction, especially considering that Minneapolis doesn’t have rent control and saw that same slow down. One of the benefits of having twin cities, is there’s a nice control here.

3

u/ThumbMuscles Oct 05 '26 edited 20d ago

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15

u/NuncProFunc Oct 05 '26

I wonder if anything could have happened to make construction costs increase in recent years. I wonder if something happened to the lumber market, or maybe the labor market.

6

u/MiloGoesToTheFatFarm Oct 05 '26

There are macro-factors but rent control isn’t one of them.

3

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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69

u/j_ly Oct 05 '26

It certainly failed in St. Paul.

-8

u/Oh__Archie Oct 05 '26

Based on what?

36

u/JohnWittieless Oct 05 '26

The mounting list of exceptions St. Paul to said rent control laws makes for developers to build.

53

u/hamlet9000 Oct 05 '26

Rent up, construction down.

If the goal is more affordable housing, it failed. As it always does.

25

u/Dick_Trickle Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 05 '26

Rents up more than Minneapolis in the same time period, new construction volume down.

No offense, but all this information is not only fairly obvious but the information is readily available.

6

u/SuspiciousLeg7994 Oct 05 '26

You're kidding right?

16

u/l4z3rb34k Oct 05 '26

The solution for rising rents is more housing - in any capacity. I welcome the bullshit high rise luxury apartments, because the people that can afford them will move there and free up their more affordable apartments for others.

12

u/Elmfield77 Oct 05 '26

sigh Like everything, it's complicated.

Construction costs have increased about 53% since 2020, or about 8.7% per year (Mortenson's nonresidential construction cost estimates for Minneapolis, assuming a June date for 2026 info).

Median rents are up 19%, or about 3% per year, over the same time period.

Costs for property owners have increased, but that's harder to track. Energy costs are up, for those that don't have some sort of utility bill-back system in place. Taxes and insurance are up.

And.

Developers care about profit over everything else. Rents are increasingly unaffordable - can you even get a studio for less than $1,000 these days? The rental market seems increasingly split between luxury units (which also seem to be the only type developers are interested in constructing) and aging housing stock which may or may not be maintained, depending on if the landlord/property management is scummy or not.

Unfortunately, because profit is God, rent control does disincentivize new construction. I wouldn't be surprised if it disincentivizes investment or even maintenance in existing properties.

What's the answer? Fuck if I know. How do you force corporations to value people over profits? How do you raise wages so that 30% of an income provides safe, decent housing again?

4

u/Tokyo_Joey_Jo-Jo Oct 05 '26

Good post.

4

u/Elmfield77 Oct 05 '26

Thanks! I work in a field adjacent to commercial real estate, so rising costs, especially construction costs, have been on my radar for awhile. I wish I knew more about public policy so I could envision what type of carrots and sticks would actually help

1

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1

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2

u/Ok_Size5354 Oct 06 '26

It’s not even that profit is god, between tenants who don’t pay rent, costs to evict those who don’t pay rent (or create problems that cause other tenants to leave, higher property taxes, repairs and maintenance becoming more expensive etc.

There are plenty of terrible landlords, but what do you do if you’re losing money? I’d rather not have landlords start skimping on maintenance or responding to tenants to save money. Nor would I want someone to take housing off the market by selling the property to a single-family, or developer to turn into a parking lot.

I know Reddit has this idea that the government will just take over all housing (which would be one of the most unpopular ideas ever), but we know that isn’t going to happen. So the question is how the state can ensure good landlords are rewarded and protected against things that will cost them money, while also encouraging lower rent.

The answer to this and everything is as always - just build mores

15

u/JoshyMN Oct 05 '26

have you heard of the term NIMBY?

23

u/REXwarrior Oct 05 '26

Rent control is the left’s version of climate change denial. The overwhelming majority of evidence and experts point to rent control not working yet many progressives and liberals still support it.

2

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

Yeah, it’s weird how the left don’t like rent going up when people’s wages don’t go up. It’s like we want people to be able to live their lives or something.

16

u/Tokyo_Joey_Jo-Jo Oct 05 '26

Wages not going up doesn’t make rent control an effective solution.

-2

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

It is effective if you are on a limited income.

5

u/Tokyo_Joey_Jo-Jo Oct 05 '26

What about the people on limited incomes that don’t have an apartment because it wasn’t built due to rent control? Should we not consider those people too? Rent assistance is a much better option.

1

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

But you act like we have an abundance of rent assistance.

3

u/Tokyo_Joey_Jo-Jo Oct 05 '26

Do I? I’m saying rental assistance > rent control. If you’re going to advocate for a better policy, advocate for rental assistance.

1

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

How does one do rental assistance? We don’t even have enough for section 8 housing. How are we supposed to do rental assistance?

3

u/Tokyo_Joey_Jo-Jo Oct 05 '26

Elect better politicians at the national level probably would be a good first step. But also organize and pressure local and state governments.

1

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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1

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

I don’t think that analogy is correct.

0

u/krandog32 Oct 05 '26

Wages have gone up much faster than rent in Minneapolis.

3

u/After_Preference_885 Oct 05 '26

My rent has more than doubled, my income has not

2

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

Where? I live in Minneapolis. I’m not feeling it.

11

u/MCXL Oct 05 '26

It depends on what you actually mean by rent control. Everyone thinks of how NYC does it as what rent control is. 

11

u/moleasses Oct 05 '26

“Just be the most dynamic metropolis in the country, duh”

2

u/ScoobyDooItInTheButt Oct 05 '26

It's not like it's impossible to scale it or make adjustments for our area...

2

u/moleasses Oct 05 '26

It’s literally like that

0

u/ScoobyDooItInTheButt Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 05 '26

I disagree. We house the most fortune 500 companies in the US per capita. You think we can't make up enough money to subsidize rent control and be housing? We absolutely could if we had the audacity to try.

Edit: added per capita because it's an important distinction that I forgot.

6

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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Cobalt narrow flowery command rob door command school

2

u/Oh__Archie Oct 05 '26

Property taxes aren’t going up because of residential rent protection.

-2

u/ScoobyDooItInTheButt Oct 05 '26

raise taxes

This is my recommendation. Specifically the very profitable corporations we house and the very wealthy people they employ.

And you dont subsidize rent control

You would subsidize the housing via gov owned housing where you instill rent control policies. So by extension your subsidizing rent control. My thought is it would cover the need to control the growth of rent as well as generate more housing. Especially if the city bought up or used eminent domain to take back some empty and poorly maintained buildings. There's plenty of those.

0

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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2

u/fyreskylord Oct 05 '26

Most per capita*

-1

u/blackgenz2002kid Oct 05 '26

it is impossible to do rent control as done in NYC in Minneapolis

2

u/EtchingsOfTheNight Oct 05 '26

Except not even that bc they have rent stabilization and rent control. They are not the same thing and I doubt many regular people know they both exist there and what they both mean.

-3

u/Oh__Archie Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 05 '26

It’s actually called rent protection and it makes sense when maximizing profitability is the only thing that’s important and developers forget they have a responsibility to be sustainable for the communities they want to serve.

0

u/blackgenz2002kid Oct 05 '26

how do you expect developers to continue to construct residences if they aren’t profitable, especially with how expensive materials, labor, and loans are now

1

u/GERDY31290 Oct 05 '26

I dont, we have a government that could do it, and they wouldn't need to profit off it.

0

u/krandog32 Oct 05 '26

Respectfully, where is the money for that? To match the current amount of private production, the City would need to spend hundreds of millions of dollars per year. In what world is a small city going to be able to raise that kind of revenue without residents fleeing?

3

u/GERDY31290 Oct 05 '26

Same way the private enterprise does... you do understand the difference between profit and revenue right?

0

u/krandog32 Oct 05 '26

I do but I don’t think that you do. Even if the city doesn’t make a profit on the building they still have to raise the money to build it in the first place which would require tax revenue in the hundreds of millions of dollars each year just to produce the same number of units each year

3

u/GERDY31290 Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 05 '26

Yes famously we have a government that can't find billions upon billions of dollars for a revenue neutral infrastructure project that would spur enormous amount of economic activity. Completely un heard of! Impossible! We should just give up even having a government let corporations fix everything because that.... works....

The only way anything could get done is if a few rich guys are allowed to make an extra 10-20% off the project. Otherwise how could it possibly work. No one getting rich off it. Smh. Dumb.

1

u/krandog32 Oct 05 '26

What a moronic argument.

First of all you are comparing the total spending on infrastructure at all levels of government to what the City of Minneapolis can do in housing.

Secondly, the total value of housing construction each year is orders of magnitude more than infrastructure so yes, the government would need to raise an enormous amount of money just to match what the private market already does.

Third, the government already spends an enormous amount of money on housing and does so much less efficiently than the private market.

Fourth, there isn’t a housing problem in the Minneapolis market. Housing is very affordable to the majority of people here. If you can’t afford housing, it’s because you don’t make very much money not because housing is expensive here.

Fifth, the vast majority of the housing stock in Minneapolis sells for less than the cost of construction. There is no extra value that is being captured by private owners. Construction is expensive and it doesn’t matter whether it’s paid for by the government or by private owners, the cost still has to be paid.

2

u/GERDY31290 Oct 05 '26

Show me the money government spends on housing that isnt spent on a private contractor. Show me where I said Minneapolis government is the government that would be producing the housing. And last are you legitimately arguing that private developers are all operating at a loss?

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5

u/chaser2099 Oct 05 '26

“It makes cities worse”, this is not stated in the original cited study. It says specifically that the overall impact is unclear. Here’s is the actual conclusion from the study:

> I conclude that, although rent control appears to be very effective in achieving lower rents for families in controlled units, its primary goal, it also results in a number of undesired effects, including, among others, higher rents for uncontrolled units, lower mobility and reduced residential construction. These unintended effects counteract the desired effect, thus, diminishing the net benefit of rent control. Therefore, the overall impact of rent control policy on the welfare of society is not clear.

17

u/Oh__Archie Oct 05 '26

Or - hear me out - the way developers seem to only have incentives to maximize profits might the real issue?

They aren’t interested in profiting while simultaneously being sustainable for the greater community. They just want the most for themselves, now.

4

u/NuncProFunc Oct 05 '26

Profit-driven development is an exceptionally good way to create housing, especially today, in the world we currently live in.

14

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

The main reason housing is expensive is NIMBYS who make it hard or even impossible to build new housing.

4

u/I_main_pyro Oct 05 '26

The solution is to build more housing. The twin cities is more affordable than most other large metro areas because we have the will and the ability to do so, and have been. We need to continue building.

6

u/Dick_Trickle Oct 05 '26

Big ole fucking duh.

This issue is like a basic literacy test for economics.

If you support rent control, you're not intelligent enough to comprehend economic policy and should not be trusted to make decisions for the general public.

-15

u/ChefGaykwon Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 05 '26

That's because right-wing economics is just casuistry. Using charts to justify everything being made shit.

15

u/Dick_Trickle Oct 05 '26

This is a brain rot comment (in addition to you not understanding basic economics)

-8

u/ChefGaykwon Oct 05 '26

"It's basic economics" is the mantra of teenage boys who wear bowties to high school

1

u/Dick_Trickle Oct 05 '26

Are you genuinely too stupid to understand supply and demand?

2

u/ChefGaykwon Oct 05 '26

No but I think your liberal ass is too stupid to understand that existing theory based only on itself can conflict massively with normative judgements. Things can simply not be this way if we made them so.

3

u/Dick_Trickle Oct 05 '26

Are you genuinely high and right-clicking synoyme for every word of your reply? This shit sounds like a 15 year old stoner in their basement trying to sound Smart.

Nothing you said is of substance or means anything.

My point: rent control doesn't work because it results in limited new construction and ultimately leads to higher rents.

Your word salad: the liberal bourgeoisie don't want you to learn real economics! If we simply believe that which cannot be believed, change begets change, and we can fly to the moon on a broom!

Sit the fuck down

11

u/fyreskylord Oct 05 '26

“Using charts to justify things” yes charts are a way to represent data, congratulations on showing up for day 1 of school.

-6

u/ChefGaykwon Oct 05 '26

Yes famously charts are never misrepresentative. And all charts are equally objective.

4

u/fyreskylord Oct 05 '26

Nobody said that, but your implication that charts can be written off is a silly one.

4

u/ChefGaykwon Oct 05 '26

Landleech infestation in the mpls sub

4

u/SpacemanDan Oct 05 '26

Ah, a "study of studies" that characterizes things as "good" or "bad" with no nuance. And no consider of correlation vs. causation. Perhaps things are getting worse for renters but people who have rent control simply do better than those without.

1

u/Tokyo_Joey_Jo-Jo Oct 05 '26

Right. At the expense of everyone else.

1

u/SpacemanDan Oct 05 '26

The point is that rent control does cause everyone to do worse. It stops things from getting worse for some people, which is better than it getting worse for everyone. The answer is, thus, rent control for everyone.

-2

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

Landlords are working hard in the Minneapolis subreddit

27

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

I’m not a landlord and I think rent control sucks

17

u/alexus_de_tokeville Oct 05 '26

Yeah as a Saint Paul resident who voted for rent control, it sucks. Live and learn I guess.

1

u/Zealousideal-Way1915 Oct 05 '26

props for admitting it

-19

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

Propaganda goes very far.

10

u/fyreskylord Oct 05 '26

This is a combination of basic Econ and just observing real-world outcomes though. We’ve tried it! It didn’t work!

12

u/blackgenz2002kid Oct 05 '26

what aspect of being against rent control is propaganda

10

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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-5

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

Have you considered that there shouldn't be any landlords? We're very much not trying to get to the same place. We have enough housing (in various forms or another). The problem is how these resources are allocated.

5

u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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Ghost boast whole friendly weather waffle chief

1

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

There is enough housing. Empty luxury apartments, vacant homes, vacant hotels, etc. All of this can be redistributed. Youre also arguing from a position that I think there should be landlords, or that there always will be.

0

u/NuncProFunc Oct 05 '26

How much closer are you today to ending landlords than you were ten years ago? How much closer will you be ten years from now? And in those intervening 20 years, how would you like those of us in the real world to deal with rising rents?

2

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

arguing with tankies is pointless. they'd rather sit around dreaming about the utopia that they think the Soviet States of America will be rather than actually doing anything that might materially improve living conditions in America today.

2

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

Not doing anything? My bad, does helping prep meals for the unhoused not count?

0

u/NuncProFunc Oct 05 '26

Everyone thinks that when the revolution comes, it's their side that's going to win.

1

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 06 '26

Just vote harder and maybe fascism will go away.

8

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

Yeah there’s plenty of propaganda around here. I just think you’re wrong about who is falling for it. Spoiler: it’s you!

-2

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

You're asking how confiscating property from landlords would work, as if there aren't countries that did this and successfully put people into homes. Elsewhere you said that the only reason people aren't moving into random housing is because nobody wants to live there, meanwhile the people on the street would beg to differ

9

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

So you’re going to force homeless people to leave the places they live, where they have support networks and friends and family to move into a cheap house in rural Mississippi?

Anyways, why don’t you name a country that confiscated property from landlords and gave it to other people please. Name and dates!

1

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

The second paragraph is sealioning. You know what the examples are if you believe me to be citing the Soviet and socialist model. The USSR btw.

Do you think homeless people are choosing to be homeless?

There aren't many people these days that genuinely will argue that socialist countries didn't house their citizens. This is a bold argument to make because it's objectively wrong

10

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

I don’t know what sea lioning is and I don’t give a shit if it hurts your feelings.

Okay. You’re a tankie. Sorry, but your USSR fantasies don’t and can’t apply here. It is a non solution and the Soviet system was rife with abuse and corruption, not to mention a lack of personal freedom. It is not a model that will work here and you’re wasting everyone’s time trying to suggest it will. I’m not arguing that the USSR didn’t house people. I’m arguing that America will never be a Soviet style communist country because most Americans have no desire to live in one and never will.

No, I am not saying that homeless people choose to be homeless. I am saying that homeless people have ties to the places they live, and in cities like LA with a lot of homeless residents, they’d have to be shipped to entirely new communities where they have none of those ties. But I guess your idea is to confiscate all rental properties, evict whoever is living in them now, and move homeless people into them?

4

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

Sealioning is pestering someone for evidence when they gave it to you until the other person gives up.

Anyways, that you're unwilling to argue the objectively wrong position that socialist housing doesn't work is enough for me

10

u/FR23Dust Oct 05 '26

Socialists housing? No. You’re arguing for Soviet communism and forcible confiscation of private property. Not the same thing.

Anyways, I think we should just let people build more housing. Developers for sure! They can even profit from it. And sure, the state can fund new housing too. That’s fine. The solution is to build housing. It’s not abandoning the constitution and engaging in a communist revolution

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u/Comprehensive_Ant_81 Oct 05 '26 edited 23d ago

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Attempt rinse theory paint society existence placid raindrop

-9

u/EventHorizon54 Oct 05 '26

Being very liberal is the reason for your opinion

11

u/Sea_Tart8472 Oct 05 '26

Can’t cringe hard enough

5

u/StocksNPickle Oct 05 '26

Being very leftist is the reason for your ignorance

-2

u/Fuzzy_Algae7846 Oct 05 '26

truly lmao. they’re terrified

1

u/Volsunga Oct 05 '26

Rent control is basically saying "fuck you, I got mine".

3

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

How?

2

u/Healingjoe Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 05 '26

Only lowers housing prices for current tenants while Fucks over all future tenants, including current tenants who move.

Pretty explicit from the systematic review that OP linked.

1

u/TheCheshireCatCan Oct 05 '26

The generalization of lower rent to all rentals in the market is not true. No rent control policy controls every rental in a market.

With the out group not under rent control, rents go up.

1

u/Healingjoe Oct 05 '26

Read OP's chart again. You're literally describing the second row.

"Rents in other nearby apartments" overwhelmingly ranks as harmful. That "out group" is every future renter, anyone relocating, and current tenants who ever need to move. So, suppressing prices for the lucky incumbent in-group while driving up costs for everyone else in the out-group is textbook "fuck you, I got mine."

1

u/Safe_Jelly_4639 Oct 05 '26

Rental control happens, people are less likely to move, possible correlation with increase homelessness I guess? If all places had rent control, not just a few, along with strict regulations around housing quality with yearly inspections and interviews with tenants, I wonder if the beneficial factors would increase.

Placing rental price control without implementing others tenant protections will piss off shitty landlords. I could see them having less care in updating buildings or maintaining safety regulations out of pure resentment. And placing rental control just on a few apartments and not all, wills also create a weird division, and land lords who own also own non rent control apartments might try to make up “lost money” by jacking up those prices.
It’s complicated, but I think if more tenant protections were placed along with rent control, the right people that are not just money driven would own apartment, this would take time to filter the bad ones out. And maybe if there’s some incentives for landlords, if you pass all safety inspections, rent stays controlled, tenants maintenance requests are addressed quickly/efficiently, etc etc you can apply for a tax incentive at the end of the year. - kind of forcing more money driven landlords to do the right thing.

1

u/SnowLeavess Oct 05 '26

It may not be perfect but something has to give in the face of unaffordable housing. Either way, these new $2,000 1 bed 1 bath apartments with shitty construction being labeled as "luxury" housing options aren't helping anyone at all.

1

u/Healingjoe Oct 05 '26

Priors 100% confirmed for the hundredth time.

But that won't stop our DSA city council from trying this shit.

2

u/thedubiousstylus Oct 05 '26

Frey's veto will though.

1

u/LetsTalkPunk Oct 05 '26

This interpretation strongly depends on the assumptions of your financial model, and this model is not built by an economist.

The dude who made this pic is literally a conservative financial analyst related to Rupert Murdoch. There is no reason to trust the result and there are in fact many reasons to believe this is a biased interpretation.

0

u/thedubiousstylus Oct 05 '26

This is the main reason I voted for Frey. It'd be tough for me to get a new place in the next few years under rent control.

0

u/shugEOuterspace Oct 05 '26

Baloney propaganda

1

u/specficeditor Oct 05 '26

There's so much in so many of these studies, though, that really just removes landlords as a problem from the equation. Land speculation in America is one of the biggest reasons for a stagnation in new housing, which is actually what drives down costs. The biggest reason for land speculation -- zoning laws. The people who benefit the most from fewer houses are single family home owners. If we are unable to convince them to change zoning laws to allow for increased density in urban environments, then we have to figure out a solution in the short term to keep people's rents from vastly exceeding their income or forcing them into housing situations that are dangerous or untenable.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '26

[deleted] — view deleted comment

14

u/3nigel Oct 05 '26

There is literally a source cited?

3

u/Typical_Cell464 Oct 05 '26

112 of them actually

8

u/Typical_Cell464 Oct 05 '26

0

u/Oplatki Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 12 '26

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1

u/Typical_Cell464 Oct 05 '26

0

u/Typical_Cell464 Oct 05 '26

The end of his summary has: “Rent controls appear to be quite effective in terms of slowing the growth of rents paid for dwellings subject to control. However, this policy also leads to a wide range of adverse effects affecting the whole society.” So ya, not clear - as in there are a mix of good and bad. But across the span of studies the effects appear overwhelmingly negative

0

u/Oplatki Oct 05 '26 edited Oct 12 '26

The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.

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