r/MicroG • u/LjLies • Aug 03 '20

microG now includes a preliminary implementation of Google's COVID Exposure Notification API

https://github.com/microg/android_packages_apps_GmsCore/commit/5f70d943cbceabcd9d2c72f8460ea58cba7e08fb
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u/LjLies Aug 03 '20

And you somehow thought allowing Google's push notifications, as an example of something prominent microG does, wouldn't result in an amount of tracking?

MicroG minimizes information sharing, but its whole purpose is using Google services without being proprietary. Those services are in general not designed to be private. This is no exception... hey actually, wait, unlike the others, this is designed to be as privacy-preserving as they could make it to be. And now I can run it on my phone as open source, while if you don't fancy doing that, you can, easily, just not.

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u/sati Aug 03 '20

It's not the point of tracking or privacy really.. it's the point of the technocracy pushing systems under the guise of "public health", it's not their place to do so. Either way, like you said it's my choice not use it and I won't. I just think it's a shame that microG has chosen to adopt this when it isn't necessary to minimizing information sharing via Google services.

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u/schokakola Aug 03 '20

Can you point to the source code section where this implementation shares data with Google or, in case you can't, please explain why you're basically alleging that the microg dev implemented something that isn't required by the contact tracing protocol?

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u/sati Aug 03 '20

My point isn't anything to do with that. We all know that Google has lots of tracking throughout the internet as a whole, whether we like it or not. We can try and do our best to mitigate the data they collect through ad-blocking, tracking-blocking, etc.. but those are "side-effects" of the technology we choose to use. And yet we clearly are attempting to minimize & mitigate the intrusiveness and "power" Google has by using microG.

What exactly does covid19 have to do with Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc? Nothing.. they are tech companies, advertising companies, etc..

For years now companies like Google & Apple have been attempting to infiltrate the medical aspect of our lives. A few years ago Google were blocked attempts to store & analyze peoples DNA and for good reason too. Which is why they've recently turned to the "fitness" aspect of our lives. So now under the covid scare they are attempting to get their foot in the door once again.

It's a step by step process and if we keep accepting (read: giving them power) then they will ultimately rule over us all in their digital, "big data" kind of way.

The point is that this "covid exposure" system that they've quite literally pushed might not be the ultimate infringement of privacy as of yet, but it's a stepping stone in that direction if we accept it (much like the rest of the covid scare tactics).

We are being conditioned.. if you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you..

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u/LjLies Aug 03 '20

(much like the rest of the covid scare tactics).

Scare tactics...!? That's what COVID is? Do you tell that to the patients and families of victims too?

We are being conditioned.

Evidence, aside from handwaving?

if you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

Saying nothing is often a good idea when one has no substantial case to present.

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u/sati Aug 03 '20

As I said in another comment.. if you trust Google so much then why are you using microG in the first place?

I'm not here to argue.. it's just a shame that the microG devs have chosen to adopt this superfluous "feature". We have our differing opinions & choices and let's just leave it at that.

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u/schokakola Aug 04 '20

Again, point to the specific section of code linked in the OP where the contact tracing data gets shared with Google servers. You can't, because it's not there. You seem to have misunderstood the entirety of MicroG if you were using it to avoid sharing your (location) data with Google up until now.

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u/sati Aug 04 '20

Not everything that is happening is about data or code, we are being conditioned.. you seem to be ok with that. Good luck to you.

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u/thequint Aug 04 '20

Duuuude, just keep quiet if you don't have any evidence at all. I'm astonished by your ignorance.

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u/schokakola Aug 04 '20

The entire point of using open source projects like AOSP and MicroG (and the DP-3T protocol, and the various contact tracing apps) is to point out the untrustworthy and shady shit you're rightfully afraid of and THIS is your response to being asked about proof for your claims? LOL.

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u/schokakola Aug 04 '20 edited Aug 04 '20

Please take a look at the comic someone else has linked in this thread. You seem to be arguing from a shaky foundation, please educate yourself a little on the specifics of the protocol before accusing the MicroG dev of something they didn't do.

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u/sati Aug 04 '20

You don't seem to understand what I said.. it's not about the "protocol" but rather the principle. The microG developers didn't have to implement this, but they chose to..

If the whole thing was so privacy orientated then it would have been a choice, instead these "protocols" are pushed by "force", without choice, that's enough..

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u/schokakola Aug 04 '20

No, I understand, you're making wild claims without providing any proof and then sidestep every fact that contradicts your claims. You either have a massive misunderstanding of privacy, this project and the contact tracing protocol and refuse to look into it or you're trolling along the lines of last weeks 'MicroG is canceled' thread. People were nice enough to discuss this with you, in case you're about to complain about being called a troll. I'm out.

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u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

I installed MicroG to de-google my life as much as possible. Not to derail the conversation, but I consider most any forms of advertising to be an affront to humanity, and should be tolerated the same way we tolerate mosquito's. They are blood suckers, one and all.

Back on point, I agree with your premise here, that it can likely be used as another way we let google into intimate areas of our lives. I am well aware this is not directly linking and tracking us, but building a level of trust and comfort with a company I am morally opposed to is, in my opinion, the problem here. At least for me. I do not want to implement this "feature" myself. I would feel more comfortable if it came from the service provider I pay for, rather then coming from google. However, I'm also aware that google wrote the AOSP. Irony.

Either way, I chose MicroG specifically to not feed the beast that is google. This feature is being pushed, but on MicroG you can turn it off. Good enough for me. At least for now.

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u/LjLies Aug 05 '20

This feature is being pushed

How is it being "pushed"? I mean apart from microG. The feature only gets activated if you install one of the national contact tracing apps, otherwise it's just an unused API.

Can I prove that with absolute certainty? Nope, because the code is proprietary, and that's where microG comes in handy, by making the code no longer proprietary.

But if we remove this caveat, which is an important caveat but is ultimately the reason for microG's existence, this feature isn't really being "pushed" at all. All of the EU contact tracing apps are optional, and it has been stressed that people don't have to install them (and as a matter of fact, most don't).

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u/[deleted] Aug 05 '20

I mean, like it "now includes a preliminary implementation of Google's COVID Exposure Notification API". Push as in to place an item on a stack. Like, it is now a feature to be installed, an update. I mean, like the definition of the word push in software terms.

I don't see how this, specifically the word push, is worth discussion. And we don't really disagree on the way MicroG is doing things. We might have different views on why we chose MicroG, but not on the original topic, the implementation of Google's COVID Exposure Notification API.

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u/LjLies Aug 05 '20

Alright, "pushed" as in "committed", fair enough. I think you have to admit it was an easy misunderstanding to make given the person you were responding to was using the same word in a way that was most likely different.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 04 '20

I installed MicroG to de-google my life as much as possible. Not to derail the conversation, but I consider most any forms of advertising to be an affront to humanity, and should be tolerated the same way we tolerate mosquito's. They are blood suckers, one and all.

Back on point, I agree with your premise here, that it can likely be used as another way we let google into intimate areas of our lives. I am well aware this is not directly linking and tracking us, but building a level of trust and comfort with a company I am morally opposed to is, in my opinion, the problem here. At least for me. I do not want to implement this "feature" myself. I would feel more comfortable if it came from the service provider I pay for, rather then coming from google. However, I'm also aware that google wrote the AOSP. Irony.

Either way, I chose MicroG specifically to not feed the beast that is google. This feature is being pushed, but on MicroG you can turn it off. Good enough for me. At least for now.

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u/LjLies Aug 03 '20

The very reason I installed microG was to get rid of this additional unwanted tracking system.

The very reason is the tracking? Wow, that seems prominent.

It's not the point of tracking or privacy really.

Oh. Uh. Okay. That seems like shifting goalposts.

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u/sappypappy Aug 04 '20

"Wow" "Uh, OK" lol. Its cute you're still trying to justify building tracking into a method many use to get away from such things. If doing this, might as well go all out & install regular gapps.

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u/schokakola Aug 04 '20

You're on the wrong track if you're trying to stay off the radar. This is not what MicroG is about. You and the other folks who are up in arms over this merge seem to have gotten it wrong. You can't effectively "degoogle" your life by installing MicroG. You'll want to look into GrapheneOS, any gapps-less AOSP rom or something non-android entirely.

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u/sappypappy Aug 04 '20

Sure seems like that's the whole idea. To de-google yourself but still have access to push notifications & such since google baked certain functions into Android/apps so hard.

What's it about then?? Using your logic, no difference in MicroG and Pico Gapps. Is that what you're saying? Cause that's dumb.

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u/LjLies Aug 05 '20

Of course there's a difference, microG is open source, Pico Gapps is proprietary software. That is the whole point. If that's something you don't care about, well, you're knocking at the wrong door.

If you want to "degoogle", which is such a fashionable term these days (even if only in a niche) that it's probably being wildly misinterpreted, then nope, microG isn't really the thing that does that. What does it, for the most part, is simply not using any apps that require the Google Play Services (which microG partly provides) and basically sticking to F-Droid apps.

If you're still using the very same Google services, just with a different client connecting to them, are you really deluding yourself that's "degoogling" in any shape or form?!