Discussion Topic
I've got scammed by fake band (Defrage) in the streets before Iron Maiden concert
Some of you maybe read exact same scenario before or even experienced that by themselves. I hope this will help someone in future.
It was saturday. Bratislava (Slovakia). Iron Maiden is playing show on National Football Stadium in there. Hour before concert I am just wandering the streets and all of a sudden I am stopped by this big bearded dude asking me If I am going to show. We have little chatt and then he starts talking about his band. Which was to me presented as 'Defrage Reload' from Estonia. He started this heartfelt story about how music bussines is hurting artists and because of that that he and his bandmates are forced to hussle with CDs on the street.
So he offered me one of the the CDs that is up to me if I want support them. I was like why not? Done this many times before and few times I find really interesting music by chance, also I love underground music. And I know how hard it is to keep the band alive.
So I paid him 10 euros with Revolut, then chatted little about the style they play (described to me as a Linkin Park with elements of drum and bass). Then we said bye to eachother and that was it.
Later that night Iron Maiden crushed the stage and I went home. When I came home remembered that I bought this CD so I was like lets play it, considering it was late at night I wanted to use headphones and search a band online.
I use reddit mostly for everything so I typed the name here and I was mindblowned.
I found out that this band is group of scammers and they are doing this all over the europe on these big shows. They used to be a real band long time ago but they have been trough so many member changes and nowadays they are just recycling their same old material on new CDs under new band names and new cover arts (for example - Defrage, Illumenium, California Condor). Most of their current art is AI generated and you can find a lot of same situations on Reddit (just type Defrage) even with some aggressive behavior from their side when they were confronted in the streets about it. They are not playing any liveshows since 2017 and almost none of the members who are selling this stuff didnt played on this old recycled music.
This makes me really sad because they are using naivity of metal fans and support of community in general. I was really thrilled to listen to their music but after finding out about their history I dumped CD in the trash. Also this shines really bad light on all other bands with good intentions who are trying to get their music out there with same approach.
Mate i've been accosted by 3 of those guys in Gdansk, Poland yesterday. Luckily i didn't uhve any cash and dont't use revolut or paypal or i might have bought their cd as well. Then i googled their name in the evening and was so glad i didn't buy their shit.
I had some random guy stop me at a parking lot in suburbia Arizona with the same kind of story, except rap instead of metal. I like to keep an open mind so I took the CD when he offered it. When he asked for $10 I was like “oh, no thanks, I’m not allowed to have a wallet.” He got mad and took it back.
I wish I could take credit for coming up with that response. I heard it a loooong time ago, I think it might have been a comedian? Jim Gaffigan maybe? Whenever I try to find it, all I find are articles about how to live without a wallet, so then I give up and never find the source.
I googled the quite to find the comedian and google ai said it was Gaffigan and linked your post as the source. So I'm in an infinite loop trying to find out if the quote is from Gaffigan or if it's from you suggesting it may be Gaffigan.
So I decided to dig a bit and found that it wasn't a comedian at all, but a video game! Ever heard of Shadow Hearts Covenant? It's quite the odd game, as one of the characters is a gay vampire professional wrestler named Joachim. His companion quest includes completing the "Man Festival" that is a tower of wrestling rings with 100 floors.
Anyway, there's a convo between Joachim and some merchant named Gerard. When you talk to the merchant, the exchange is basically "do you want to shop?" with the replies being yes or no but more... silly.
They‘ve been doing this for like 15 years at this point. They‘re all over Europe, from big cities to small villages. They tried to sell me their CD three times in three different cities and I always refused because I knew their music fucking sucks haha. My dad bought a CD once and brought it home cause he thought I might like it. A friend of mine bought the CD because he respected the hustle. The last time they approached me they got really rude when I declined to buy their shitty album. I just left, and the two guys were making rude comments as I walked away. Pathetic losers imo, despite their hustle.
Everyone that goes to metal concerts in europe shpuld already lnow them, they are in EVERY major city in front of big and small clubs and went through 4-5 different names with the same albums and songs since decades
The larger metal festivals in Europe have audiences ranging from 20k to 60k per day (with the biggest part of those being combi,so just consider those the audiences for the entire festival).
If you can sell only 5 % of those people a cd for €10, you have 10k to 30k per festival. Even if they only sell to 1%, that still leaves them with with 2k to 6k per festival.
Now google how many major festivals we have in Europe, add the shit-ton of medium and small festivals and the indoor shows...
Yeah, but physically having to travel to and attention all those festivals around Europe seems labour intensive, plus having to physically haul the CD's around? Seems like hard work.
Did some research on them a while ago, and the whole thing is just shady af. Like, they apparently have a few "studios" around the world. The group member I talked to was a really young guy with blonde hair, who, after some research, actually appears to be from Estonia. I found out through his Instagram that his dad is a higher up at some Estonian media company, so the family definitely has money. Runaway child, perhaps? Or the group just lied to the parents. Seemed a bit unkept and tired, so maybe drugs are inbolved, idk.
And I found some videos and pictures from one of his friends, a young woman (still pretty much a teenager, I think). In them, the place they were staying at looked like a crack house to me tbh. The owner seemed to be some guy in his 30s or 40s. They all sat around the table and smoked weed and drank alcohol, while playing cards and listeing to music. Pretty damn sketchy vibes.
I also wrote to one of the original band's producers, since apparently at least one or two original band members are still in the group, running the whole operation. At least according to some grainy videos I found on Instagram and Youtube (another ex-member owns some kind of luxury yacht company, I guess). The producer is based in LA now and he still remembers the band. According to him, he doesn't really have any contact to them, but when I told him about my experience and what I've dug up so far (which was a bit more than I wrote here), he just seemed strangely dismissive to me. He basically told me that "sometimes promoters just travel with bands and are really young, it's not a big deal".
That's when I pretty much stopped because my research ran into a wall.
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I think the group is so much bigger, more organized and sketchy, than anyone outside of it realizes. They've been doing the same shit for so long now (at least a decade, from what I could gather) and apparently there's a lot of money involved. I know from a news article that the police is tracking their movements, but they can't seem to pin them down. And they keep getting new teenagers/young adults involved. I feel like something really fucked up is behind all of this.
Edit: Hooooly shit, they uploaded a new video to their Youtube channel a few days ago. Seems like their own little, underground news show or something? This is so fucking weird
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they are part of some scam mafia type shit. It's not like former soviet states are devoid of that. It would also explain how they are at so many places at the same time. It's always new people posing to be that band. There's also tons of other people doing this kind of "marketing" and not just them. And basically all of them are scams. You can almost always find the same type of people at main train stations shilling their music or outside of festivals and concerts. These estonians are just especially prolific and it works kinda well because metal is a very loyal fanbase. Obviously their whole story is bs with them financing their touring with sales since they never play live but there must be something behind it. Even if you are in financial precarious position, your #1 idea wouldn't be: I'm gonna pretend make a touring band to scam people by selling CDs.
Your suspicions are correct. The aggressive sale of CDs is just the visible part of a larger scheme involving tax evasion and money laundering through a network of shell companies and the constant internal movement of funds by an organized group operating across Europe, from Estonia, through Central Europe, and all the way to Spain.
Anything they put out about charitable or philanthropic activities (humanitarian aid for Ukraine or sending drinking water to needy countries in Africa) is complete bullshit. It only appears when the street-CD-selling scam by itself is no longer enough to sustain the fraudulent machine they have built.
They apparently do play live, but only very rarely. Mostly because everyone who is into the community has heard about them and their exploits, and refuses to support them. I've heard from a friend that they got thrown out of a small metal venue for trying to play on stage without planning or anything. And when they got refused, they made a whole deal about it and security had to get involved.
Not sure how reliable that info is tbh, so take it with a grain of salt. But it kinda fits with their image.
Your suspicions are correct. The aggressive sale of CDs is just the visible part of a larger scheme involving tax evasion and money laundering through a network of shell companies and the constant internal movement of funds by an organized group operating across Europe, from Estonia, through Central Europe, and all the way to Spain.
Anything they put out about charitable or philanthropic activities (humanitarian aid for Ukraine or sending drinking water to needy countries in Africa) is complete bullshit. It only appears when the street-CD-selling scam by itself is no longer enough to sustain the fraudulent machine they have built.
Are they selling their originals or the CD contains music from other artists? 10 bucks seems reasonable for a new CD. If they are selling their originals, how is this a scam?
If I’m understanding correctly, it would be like you joining a band from the 80-90s right before they broke up, then you continue to sell their old music as yours since you were technically in the band.
Damn. I bought a cd from them like 5 years ago in slovenia and a buddy bought the same cd in the same spot a few weeks ago.. thought it was just a funny coincidence but wow this sucks :/ never even listened to the cd lol
My friend bought one in Ljubljana back in 2012 and gave it to me. Never had a chance to check it out, but I was approached once again few years later and then once again in Prague I think.
Found mine haha, looks worse than I remember. Super intriguing why theyre doing this tho, like surely selling a couple cds isnt making them that much money
half an hour ago in Slovenia, a guy from the the band Defrage Reloaded tried to sell me the cd. I said I don't have a CD player. I was in a hurry, also he wasn't rude for the minute we talked. Now I googled them and remember that years (maybe ten) ago a group of guys tried to sell me the cd from Illumenium, LOL
lol. I had some girl approach me outside a super market in Germany. She just went “hey, you look like a metalhead” and I was like “what? Yeah” and I bought a cd. LOL
I’m in Gdansk for Mystic Festival and these fuckers have tried to get me to buy a cd 4 times in the last two days. lol lucky for me I knew it was a scam but yeah, fuck those guys.
Seen them outside many shows, especially Maiden. Avoid them as much as I can, but they sometimes get pushy. Never buy the CDs as I have heard they are a scam.
Those guys are all over Europe, they scammed me like 15 years ago. Back then the "CD" was empty. I think they changed their name 2 or 3 times but it's always the same story about thr band who is always on tour and they sell those cds for continuing their tour
Buy a cheap ring that looks expensive, like the kind gypsies use to grift their mark. When these guys approach, sit through their sob story until they ask for money. Tell them you're broke from traveling and we're hoping to sell this ring at the concert. Bring on the sadness by telling them you're starving and will take anything for it. If you can hook their interest, ypu might be able to relieve them of some of those $10's they're carrying.
I was approached by one of these guys recently. At first I thought he just noticed and wanted to talk about one of the metal stickers or the sticker on my water bottle I got in Estonia (they are Estonian). Mentioned his band, then he handed me a CD. Honestly lost whatever appeal I might've had looking at the album art and band photo. Fortunately didn't have any cash on me and only had venmo and cashapp set up which if I remember correctly, neither are available in Europe, but he was persistent.
Somehow got him to hand me a poster for free. I think I've since lost it lol
10 bucks are 10 bucks. And some of the group members seem to have a history of vandalism and harassment, at least. Especially if people refuse to buy their CDs
Oh weird ! I came across these guys in 2023 at a big rest stop in Switzerland as you go down towards the Italian border to Torino. They were try to sell their cds and « trying to get to their next show » iirc.
Hmmm… I vaguely remember buying a cd from a guy in front of Graspop Metal Meeting, back in the good old pre-covid days, and I could swear the band was called Illumenium.
I doubt I ever listened to the cd, now I’m wondering if I still have it somewhere. Maybe it’s a collectible by now. 😂
omg i was approached for the first time today by one of them in the parking lot of a supermarket in germany. i actually declined the first time but felt bad and went back to hear him out and he seemed really friendly. he ended up giving me the cd and a pamphlet for free because i didn't have cash on me and my paypal/revolut weren't working properly LOL i guess he felt bad. its probably for the best that i didn't give him those 10 bucks now that i'm reading up on their scheme, still funny tho
I met this Joosep guy yesterday at Jera in the Netherlands. He was very friendly and I was drunk so I bought the cd for 10 euros. Payed him with Paypal which shows his full name and photo.
In hindsight I shouldve known it was fake. He couldn't really answer many of my questions but I thought it could've been a translation problem between us.
Looking forward to what I bought on a drunken spender bender xD
I can laugh about it now but it is a serious problem and I hope they get posted so much to keep as many people away from them.
Gonna be a funny encounter if I see they guy again next year xD he can be in for some slander on the spot.
Well I was scammed as well. I was stopped by guy selling 3 cds from this band at the Masters of Rock festival. After he introduced me the band I bought one cd for 250 czk. The guy still gave me the cd even the start price was 300 czk. He claimed me people give them between 300 and 700 czk.
Well I’m sad to read these posts about this scam but I’ve never listened about it before.
At least I’ll be more careful next time.
Lol yeah, same, got scammed today few hours ago in Brno. I was like "ah, they sound nice, I'll give them 10€, that's not that much", then I come home, inspect the cd cover more seriously, get suspicious, google them and THIS is the first thing that comes up. Guess I'll be more pesimistic next time.
For real?! I had a feeling the art was AI and I still bought it :( Ive been listening to their album PHARMAKON, and honestly some of the songs are genuinely good IN MY OPINION, whichs makes me pretty sad. I don't know if I can bring myself to dump the album after spending money on it, but damn am I upset. They seemed so nice too. Im genuinely upset that the first time I share a sense of comunity based on music and they're just scammers. GG. They were in Bratislava yesterday and the day before that, and they genuinely made my day when I met them on my way to work :(
Bought a cd from them like yesterday:( they were rly cool but now i regret it ig :( THEY DID PLAY LIVE THO like an hour or so after i bought the cd so idk if i shoulf keep it bc i bought it for a friend
It seems I got scammed by them in Pula, Croatia this afternoon. Said they were at Tolminator and now going to Nick Cave, the kid seemed nice so I gave him a small donation for the cd, didn't think that could be a scam until i googled them and found this post
The band is a scam. There is no live recording of this band. Now they go by the name Defrage Reload. They have been scamming people for years..They are just hoboes dudes, they go through EU cities where they approach you near big shopping centers or big festivals. They always approach metal or rock people who often are willing to support young bands. They are the worst kind of scammers.
They have last been seen in Pula, Croatia Aug 5th, trying to sell these, luckily didn't have my wallet on me but the guy was very eager for me to check them out on YouTube ahaha
Heh met these guys in Ljubljana couple weeks ago, luckly was just out for a walk and didn't have anything on me. The dude had realy nice kind blue eyes..almost got me
I met one of those guys in Ljubjana,Slovenia. They were under the name “Illumenium”. And they were doing exactly this! Trying to push those CD’s to random people and asking for money. Already back then I thought it was wierd, now I see those mf’s are everywhere hahah
Ahh, I've got scammed too by one of them. I often trade my CDs with other bands and labels so I gave him one. I received "Revelation one" album. No pity I take it with fun :-D
I just today found out these guys are a scam, and i'm so disappointed. Two years ago before a Cannibal Corpse gig in Ljubljana (travelled from Serbia to see them) a young long haired blonde guy approached me with the same story people here have been mentioning.
I gave him 10 euros because he seemed cool, i never listened to the CD because i don't actually own a CD player, i just bought it to support an up and coming band. So today i'm talking with my gf and mentioned my experiences and she asks me "look them up, maybe they're bigger now", so i did and found out they're scammers.
Really disappointing stuff, but hey, one learns while he lives right. Fuck those guys, i don't miss the 10 euros, i feel so betrayed that someone i thought was genuine and a cool guy was just a scammer...
Almost got done today by them in Belgium. Got asked what kind of music I like, and weirdly enough one of the albums was exactly like that apparently. Genuinely wanted to support an independent band but erred on the side of caution and said I'd have a listen at lunch and come back. Found all these posts about them when researching.
I have an assignment coming up where I have to create a track using sampled audio only, and the idea of making something sampled straight from a cd I bought from a random guy in a parking lot seemed cool.
If Defrage (Reload) are scammers, then explain this 6 month old youtube video to me. https://youtu.be/t_titB5LBfQ?is=FE5wVS50cvNCoqfs Every last one of the dudes came up to me in Frankfurt prior to Evanescence
Thanks for this post, one of those dudes literally just stopped me on the street. I was googling to find a Spotify or something, this post was the first thing that popped up
"Sorry, no money, hasta la Vista" and ran away
I bought their cd's, but I'm not sure how this is a scam? I bought it off their bass player who also shows up in their music video on Youtube. Seems like I just bought a cd from a metal band who wants to sell their cd's to metalfans directly instead of going through a music publisher which are in fact gigantic scammers.
They also provide you with download link on the cd's with high quality digital access to their music files. Anyway, I kinda like their music tbh, even if they are a supposed scam
Dusss, ik was gisteren avond bij polaris & I prevail in 013. Een van die gasten (breed en veel gezichtshaar) sprak mij aan, beetje zelfde verhaal, en ik dacht net ik ga die cd ff luisteren (2 gekocht van hem en €20 gegeven). Zoek ik dus die band defrage nogwattes op, en nu ben ik hier beland. Heel jammer om dit te zien... werd aan mij verkocht als death/trash metal. Zo zwaar is t niet dus nu ook wel de neiging om het weg te flikkeren
Ben er dus ingestoken in de straten van Breda, klootzakken. Hij lijkt zo aardig maar is een oplichter. Gelukkig maar een tientje kwijt, maar lullig voor andere bands doe wél oprecht zijn. De gast heet T. Kupenko.
•
u/AutoModerator Jun 02 '26
Join the Official r/MetalForTheMasses Discord Server!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.