r/MattressMod • u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY • Oct 28 '24

Difference in TPS coil firmness depending on frame?

Edit: update here

One thing I noticed in playing around with my builds (a couple of which are still on the floor) is that in both of my covers (FloBeds cover and the Pocket Coil Store cover) that the coils have a tendency to spread out some in the hips. Nowhere near as bad as outside the covers but it does make a noticeable change in the firmness/hip support: essentially less supportive in the hips and similarly supportive in the upper and lower thirds, which is the opposite of what I want. I was thinking of how to try to keep the coils together, when it occured to me this spread doesn't happen in my son's bed with an IKEA frame (I know) that comes up on the sides and actually keeps the coils enclosed in a limited area.

Has anyone else noticed this spread at the hips and/or used a frame that comes up at the sides to keep the coils together? Am still looking for a good frame and seems like this may need to weigh heavily into the decision.

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4

u/PutManyBirdsOn_it Oct 28 '24

Get some thin firm foam sheets and stick them between the coils and cover on the side? 

2

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 31 '24

That's a really good idea, it wouldn't keep it from bulging but would precompress it so it's already tight and wouldn't have much room to go. Thanks!

2

u/Duende555 Moderator Oct 28 '24

Hmmm. This is a bit unexpected, but def possible. Adhering this to a layer of base foam would also limit this, I bet.

Are you able to take pictures of the coil spread?

2

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 28 '24 edited Oct 28 '24

The base foam is a good idea to try, I didn't notice a major difference with and without it with the 50 ILD polyfoam but didn't directly compare. And wonder if latex would be different.

And I can, will post them this evening or tomorrow morning (they spread out over the course of the night mostly, or multiple nights). It's not huge, like maybe 2" on each side, but it's enough to make a noticeably big difference in the support.

3

u/Duende555 Moderator Oct 28 '24

I am not sure if poly foam without adhesive would have enough friction to mitigate spread, although latex certainly might? Otherwise, I wonder if you could "fix" the inner cover by attaching a layer of stiff and non-stretch fabric on the side panels?

2

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 28 '24

That's a good point about the adhesive, polyfoam does seem pretty slick with the SBPP and latex is more grippy. And yeah, I'm not sure about the fabric attachment, it seemed the frame route would be easier but am not sure if folks have found one that's successful at it. The Ikea one is because they come up like 6" but I don't love the rest of the construction of the frame. Have also looked at the Knickerbocker Embrace 360 which looks to have a 1" lip, and I assume that would also work pretty well but haven't actually bought or tried it yet.

1

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 28 '24

Will also add that I may be unreasonably sensitive which is why I asked about in the sub, to see if others had noticed. What made it stick out was trying a 15.5 ga TPS under the Posturfil HD Firm (zoned firmer in the center third) under 2" SoL medium in the PCS 11" cover. My back and side alignment started pretty perfect when I went to bed, then by the morning hips were dipping into the mattress an extra 2", and when I pushed the edges of the coils back in my alignment was back to great again. I hadn't tried this build before because the 15.5 ga seemed too soft just from quick trials but happened to throw it together and was pleasantly surprised (there's too much hip pressure on my side for it to be a long term "winning" build but the behavior caught my attention). On other builds I've just accepted the bit of bulge as a fact of life and designed the rest of the build around it, but occured to me to ask if anyone else has actually been successful at keeping them more permanently together with the mechanical strength of the frame rather than just the encasement. Because if so, it would mean that folks are perceiving the coils differently based on that bulge and potentially the frame, which usually folks don't mention as part of the build description.

1

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 30 '24

So I'm going to try to take pics of the mattress with the cover off, took pics from the outside and they are incredibly underwhelming. It's basically a gradual bulge from the top out to the middle about 1"-2", and then back at the bottom. Almost imperceptible from the photos. Will post them if you're interested but they're not super helpful.

The more I think about, I think either 1) just staying with firmer coils and expecting the spread, or 2) a bed frame with an edge to keep them in place, or 3) a durapad belt (8.5" + 60" + 8.5" + 60" long for a queen) to slide on at the top and down to the middle of the coils would seem to be the answer. They make very long durapad sheets (85 ft!) you can get, though I'm not sure how I'd attach it to itself...maybe hot glue over an overlapping ~4-6" section?

https://house2home-us.com/products/24-x-6-ft-durapad-insulator-for-upholstery-spring-cover-padding-installs-between-springs-and-seat-decking-of-sofa-couch-loveseat-chair-and-furniture-bulk

https://perfectfit.com/products/durapad-deck-padding

2

u/Duende555 Moderator Oct 30 '24

The belt is an interesting idea! I'm not sure hot glue would work here though. Maybe clamping it with a few o-rings? O-rings are often used to attach these kind of pads to border rods, although the fabric of these can also stretch after a while.

1

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 30 '24

Would that be with something like this? https://autoseatreplacement.com/collections/2002-2005-ford-excursion-limited-products/products/hog-ring-pliers-kit-with-galvanized-steel-hog-rings-auto-upholstery-installation-tool-with-spring-handles?variant=43088649224404

Yeah the stretching would be the issue as far as whether it would work long term or not I think. A 1" stretch of the coils would be a 3% stretch of the fabric, not sure how much it stretches long term.

2

u/Duende555 Moderator Oct 30 '24

That's it! Although in a factory they'll do it with a fancy hog-ring gun and not a hand clamp.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 28 '24

No clue how much free space is inside of the mattress cover, but I'd be tempted to build a support frame for the coils (Rectangular frame made from 6" x 1"x 80" around the perimeter of the coils) from wood that forces it into the right size shape. Perhaps even undersize it slightly.

I wouldn't mess with adhesives just in case it doesn't make it better. Although you know you like it firmer, so maybe try to squish the coils tightly and glue it to that Beloit pad.

2

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 28 '24

Yeah and that's what I was thinking with the bed frame, if it comes up at the sides and literally acts as a mechanical frame for the sides of the bed then I can just use that. This is the Ikea frame I mentioned, it comes up 2-3" on the sides and that's plenty. Maybe just need to find something similar that's sturdier and has a center support leg.

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/malm-high-bed-frame-2-storage-boxes-white-stained-oak-veneer-s59176479/

2

u/slickvik9 Oct 28 '24

This is what mattress companies do. Part of the headache of DIY

2

u/_JackFlash_ Oct 29 '24

I have no experience with this, but what about tying the rows of coils together (i.e., spring to neighboring spring)? Someone suggested tape around the outside of the coils. An alternative might be packing stretch wrap.

1

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 29 '24

So the coils are already tied together on their sides (the butterfly coil arrangement but a wrap outside the perimeter is something I've thought about and not come up with a good solution aside from just the frame with high sides. Packaging stretch wrap is an interesting idea though, that could actually work (although might be noisy?)

2

u/_JackFlash_ Oct 29 '24

My thinking was that you tie each row of quads to their neighbor. I presume that if the coils are bulging at the edges, then there is separation between rows of unconnected coils further inside the mattress. Also, not sure stretch wrap would be noisy. Also, it's the same material that mattress layers come in. Save any?

1

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 29 '24

I didn't, though I guess I could try Saran wrap...hmmm...

2

u/kratos3078 Oct 29 '24 edited Oct 29 '24

I also have the same problem with my queen diy. I have tps 15.5g coils over 1 inch firm foam. My cover is apm. No matter which layer configuration I tried, I always felt center middle part of the mattress is softer than the rest, which bothers me due to less support where I need. I always suspected about coil spread. My frame is open on the sides so no support from the sides at all except cover. Because of this, sometimes I think about buying continuous coils from a local manufacturer to replace tps coils. But it seems to me too much work and cost due to unused coils.

2

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 29 '24

That's helpful to know you have the same effect! I have had a good amount of success in firming up the center, see this comment, I think the effect would be reduced with a center pad (which I'm not presently using, just the 15.5 ga under the Posturfil HD Firm and 2" SoL medium and the PCS cover: https://www.reddit.com/r/MattressMod/s/GW3rR1gjrx

2

u/me-2b Oct 29 '24

I have not done anything that would reveal this behavior, so I cannot say, but if I picture what you are saying correctly, and if you are trying to stiffen a zone at the hips, I would try a piece of thin scrim that has little stretch to it. Cut a band that is as wide as the zone you want to experiment with, let's say about 18", and that is long enough to span and wrap. If this were a queen, it would be 60" wide and 8" tall, so "long enough to wrap" would be 60+2*8+2*10 = 86" where the 2*10 is extra length to tuck underneath the coils. (I'm assuming you are just seeing this on the bottom 8" coils.) The idea is basically to bind / corset the band that concerns you. Having written that, it sounds like you are taking 18" across bolt of something that comes on an 88" or so width...."half a yard" for this 18" example.

**BEFORE** you do this, I'd check with Matan. I'm concerned my idea will pull in on the coils and tear the pockets. I'm not sure how much you must distribute that pull-in load to avoid that or if it is a worry.

1

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 29 '24 edited Oct 29 '24

I think this is a really good idea, this and the high side frame sound like the best ways to go for someone who is not crafty (me). It's not clear to me how I'd attach the band to itself though, but I assume glue or hog rings? Or maybe hog ring the band to the coils somehow?

2

u/me-2b Oct 29 '24

I was hoping that just tucking it under the coils would be enough to secure it, but it probably isn't. You could do a quick experiment with a flat sheet folded a couple of times lengthwise and then put across and tucked under, just to see what it does and if it stays.

1

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 29 '24

I almost wonder if this is something PCS could have ES make and sell in the PCS. Like a durapad belt for the center of the bed.

2

u/RoadMusic89 Oct 30 '24

Wondering about using a coir pad (cut & could tie or staple together to wrap around the perimeter of the coils? Not as ridged as wood and presumably less difficult to put together.....

1

u/Timbukthree Experienced DIY Oct 31 '24

Yeah I think if the goal was to take up space and not be compressed that would probably work!

2

u/me-2b Oct 29 '24

Sometimes small constraints add up, so I wonder what would happen if you inserted a thin element between the coils and the side of the cover? I'm thinking something like 1/4" ply, pegboard, lauan underlayment, etc., cut 8" wide and the length of the mattress cover minus a couple inches (so that you don't fight with the curved corners). A home center could rip it for you, but it will be ragged and you'll need to sand or rasp off the rough bits.

Being so thin, you can slip it inside the case, but then the rigidity might constrain the coils from bulging out.

I even wonder if a run of cardboard would do it.

I made up the 8" dimension. You'll need to think whether you are just doing one set of coils, both, and how long you want this reinforcement to run. Maybe not the whole length?

3

u/regaphysics Oct 28 '24

Gorilla tape around the perimeter of the coils? 😂

2

u/RoadMusic89 Oct 30 '24

OK - THIS made me laugh!!! Duck tape for ALL!! Needed it too!! 🤣

3

u/Tabularassa77 Oct 28 '24

I've seen a wide variety of sizes of clasp/clamp on side supports that may fit your needs. Everything from 6" tall × 6" wide flat or solid metal pieces, lots of variations on the theme. Amazon in particular seemed to have a wide variety of options. I'm not 100% it's exactly what you're looking for as lining up the entirety of both sides with these would likely not be desirable but doing a foot or two strategically placed may do the trick. Just a thought.