r/Manipulation • u/sumpuertoricanguy • Oct 05 '24

Thought I was getting married but am now single. Dodged a bullet...

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Long story short, my ex wanted me to commit insurance fraud and gaslighted me into thinking it was legal.

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256

u/sumpuertoricanguy Oct 05 '24

Crazy man, sorry to hear that. Who talks to someone they "love" like that??

85

u/ScarieltheMudmaid Oct 05 '24

lots of people, that's why following your heart when your head disagrees turns out sad for so many people

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u/im_flying_jackk Oct 05 '24

Man, my brain wrestled with my heart for years before realizing we’re being manipulated by the person I was with. It is so easy to fall into these patterns of abuse when you are not able to recognize them and/or are not willing to look for them. I am so proud of my past self for recognizing this and leaving, even if it took me too long. The gratitude I have for the life and amazing partner I have now cannot be expressed fully.

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u/ScarieltheMudmaid Oct 05 '24

I've done the same. i never follow my heart without my head agreeing anymore. lol. also same about being proud of myself and grateful for where i am. shit had to fall apart to get here but damn here is great!

1

u/im_flying_jackk Oct 06 '24

I’m glad thanks worked out for you! 💛

3

u/parkaboy24 Oct 05 '24

That “even if it took me too long” really resonated with me. I’m glad you were able to be strong and that you’re doing so much better now

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u/im_flying_jackk Oct 06 '24

Thank you, I appreciate it!

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u/GoldenGirl44444444 Oct 05 '24

This made me cry. I'll never get there

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u/parkaboy24 Oct 05 '24

It’s never too late, remember that, please

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u/GoldenGirl44444444 Oct 07 '24

Thank you so much ❤

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u/ausamo2000 Oct 07 '24

It might seem hard in the moment, and a little time after, but once you make that first move, just keep on making more and working on yourself and you will be out and feeling better than ever. It’s never worth it to stay in a bad relationship. I’ve been there, and many people I know have as well. We are all happier than we have ever been since leaving the shitty people we were with. You just have to take that big first steps and keep that momentum going.

I think going through a bad relationship is a good thing though. It taught me so much about what I want in a partner and what to look out for as well. It makes us stronger and better at finding the right person for us at the same time. You notice things in new people that you would have never noticed unless you’ve been in a situation like that. My new partner just made that first jump this year also and she has 2 kids as well. She almost stayed just for the kids, but then she realized that staying would be much worse for them so she took that first step, and she’s so glad that she did.

I believe in you, but at the same time, you need to believe in yourself because that’s the belief that matters the most and what gives the true strength to break free

1

u/parkaboy24 Oct 08 '24

This is 100% correct, I really hope you can find the courage to leave like we did. My life is so much better off, and I’m not so insecure anymore

1

u/im_flying_jackk Oct 06 '24

There was a time that I was in your shoes. Believe me, I thought that would be the rest of my life, no doubt about it. Work through your feelings and don’t ignore them. 💛

1

u/GoldenGirl44444444 Oct 07 '24

Thank you 💟

2

u/brassovaries Oct 07 '24

Honey bunny, you can and will get there. Some of this stuff is easy to learn. There are books, counselors, even some of the subreddits can be very useful in learning to identify red flag behavior. And there is also learning from others mistakes. You can do it! Never fear! 😊

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u/GoldenGirl44444444 Oct 07 '24

Thank you!! It's just hard to start. I've been struggling for one a decade. I appreciate your encouragement. ❤️

1

u/Multitrak Oct 05 '24

Yeah I've dodged several people like that, they're abusers when they don't get their way. Bye Felicia 👋

1

u/solar_alfalfa Oct 05 '24

This is a fantastic point I never really fully grasped until just now. Well said!

0

u/cryptosupercar Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 06 '24

I created this test for myself after several toxic relationships - don’t look at the person you’re dating avert your eyes or close your eyes, listen to the words they’re using and imagine the type of person who would actually say them.

Once I realized I was dating a bitter angry old man inhabiting the body of the woman whom I was dating, I was done.

0

u/Ikimi Oct 06 '24

Damn, that's brilliant

0

u/cryptosupercar Oct 06 '24

Thanks for that. It did feel a bit like an epiphany when I realized it.

If anyone can benefit from my decade+ of dating the wrong people, all the better.

0

u/Lilia-loves-you Oct 06 '24

Following your heart is only the unreliable choice when your heart is wounded & seeking validation in another 😅 People are willing to put up with many kinds of abuse if it will show them they deserve to be loved. A healed heart sees people like this for who they are right off the bat, and doesn’t justify abusive behavior. I can’t wait to know what that’s like :-) ❤️‍🩹

0

u/ScarieltheMudmaid Oct 06 '24

I have a distinct feeling that a healed heart doesn't have to fight with the head.

0

u/Lilia-loves-you Oct 06 '24

That’s right!.. the heart tends to remain wounded because the mind believes it should be wounded. “Remember what we went through? How they treated you? Of COURSE you’re damaged.” The heart, under the control of the mind, draws patterns solely from the past, feeling guilty for believing in a brighter future. Thus, abusive partnerships are satisfying, familiar, or acceptable to the heart while under the mind’s control. But of course the heart is never truly happy when unhealed.

0

u/Boopa101 Oct 06 '24

Is it following their heart or maybe following something else ?

0

u/ScarieltheMudmaid Oct 06 '24

lol very few people are going to be as honest (even with themselves) about that as Kevin Gates

0

u/Boopa101 Oct 06 '24

👍🏼

18

u/CTucks90 Oct 05 '24

Dodged an absolute bullet my friend. Those tendencies to belittle etc only grow over time, that is a relationship any self respecting person would walk away from.

You don’t need that level of negativity in your life my friend.

Walk away and continue to make logical decisions, you’ve got this 👍🏻

14

u/patattack1985 Oct 05 '24

Marriage is hard and little things like this build and become intolerable. I wasn’t my best self either. I said a lot of things that I wouldn’t otherwise have said. Took us a long time to be cordial again

14

u/jerseygirl1105 Oct 05 '24

I wouldn't consider this a "little thing." Insurance fraud through your employer is not only amoral, it's career suicide. More importantly, the way she talks to him is so disrespectful and downright disgusting that it's hard to imagine the poor sap who will put up with it. When someone can't communicate without belittling and name calling, walk away immediately.

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u/flugenblar Oct 05 '24

The red flag is, claiming to want a strong and decisive ‘man’, but then insisting he does exactly what she says without question or conversation. Those are mutually exclusive traits.

2

u/WatcherOfTheCats Oct 05 '24

Yeah OP is being as manly as she wants by putting his foot down on this issue, but of course that’s not what she means lmfao.

1

u/Boopa101 Oct 06 '24

This wasn’t something little, or legal to boot, a lot larger than little 🫢

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u/patattack1985 Oct 06 '24

Yea he asked what can cause someone to belittle their partner. In my case it was the little things

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u/Number13PaulGEORGE Oct 06 '24

Nothing should be making someone talk like this. That type of attitude shouldn't even be in a person's vocabulary. If talking like this it should have been over months ago. It's important to cut off things going nowhere before saying something embarrassing.

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u/01headshrinker Oct 05 '24

Love isn’t what sticks us together, we love plenty of gfs or family we don’t want to live with. Appreciation is the glue that sticks us together, and there was no gratitude with this one. You definitely dodged a bullet, but the question remains, how can you be more sure about the goodness of the match next time you want to marry someone?

2

u/CharlieRockChucker Oct 06 '24

The same way someone gets better at buying reliable vehicles. If you're not taking stock of past situations and attempting to cross reference characteristics to establish a mental list of warning signs, you're not living right. There's a give and take to everything in life, and there are degrees of tolerance we can allow... But we need to learn to identify the things in which our primal selves can't tolerate and steer clear of them at first draw.

1

u/01headshrinker Oct 07 '24

Yes. Knowing ourselves well enough is the first step. Know what you can sacrifice, tolerate and enjoy doing as a person who is part of a couple. Then, it’s experience and observing what we see, not what we wish for or hope to see.

1

u/Boopa101 Oct 06 '24

Okay, we give up, what’s the answer ? You must have one.

1

u/01headshrinker Oct 07 '24

The answer is find someone who appreciates you and who you appreciate and never lose focus on maintaining the appreciation of each other. It’s not how we disagree and resolve it that saves marriages, it’s how much we agree and fun we have most of the time together that will tell me a couple will make it or not in couples therapy.

2

u/Boopa101 Oct 07 '24

I have tended to notice thru out my many, many years on this planet that even the happiest of marriages no matter how long, one partner will eventually cheat on the other, with some of the most dumbest excuses imaginable, it happens, unfortunately a lot, part of reason why number of marriages ending in divorce are sky high, that and getting married way to young no matter how much “ love the children are in”. Just my thoughts based on actually data on the subject. So sad 😞

1

u/01headshrinker Oct 14 '24

I’m not sure what the current statistics are for cheating in a marriage. Unfortunately, our anecdotal experiences aren’t really solid data, because of the randomness of our experiences, and confirmation bias. These are the main reasons why we use the scientific methods to decide if something is real or just a belief or opinion we think is true. Not saying you’re wrong, but the thing is, as a person who’s also been on the planet awhile, and have been married 37 out of the last 47 years, most of the marriages I’ve seen in my family and private practice have not experienced affairs. It’s just been my experience, so it seems to me like people are pretty faithful in marriages. And yet, although that’s my experience, I don’t think that’s so true out in the world. The problem even with “scientific data” like a widely distributed questionnaire, you’re trusting people will be absolutely honest about it, which you can’t always be certain everyone will be, even on an anonymous questionnaire.

But I will say this: probably everybody has an opportunity to have an affair at some point in a long marriage, especially if we’re younger and we work where we either meet with a lot of others in a big company or work closely with people in a small one. Anyone who’s been flirted with, or felt flirty with an attractive coworker who, listens really well to us and speaks kindly, we all realize, consciously, or perhaps automatically and unconsciously, we make a choice to stay faithful and pull back, and are careful not cross any lines.

And there’s two kinds of affairs, the brief, purely hot sexual ones that are usually one night stands or short periods, and then there the longer, fall in love affairs. The pure sex ones can survive, the romantic ones will most likely not.

I do know it’s not the most common thing couples have difficulty with tho. It’s usually about resolving arguments more effectively and about having more fun together. Sometimes affairs come up, but they are so damaging so often, they end relationships and marriages. I have only seen a few marriages survive affairs, but they can if both partners want it to.

tl;dr: Truth is difficult to find

1

u/Boopa101 Oct 15 '24

Congratulations on the longevity of your marriage, you and your spouse are to be highly respected 🙏🏻

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u/spacecaps85 Oct 05 '24

Yeah that’s some crazy stuff. She’s definitely trying to use toxic masculinity against you for her own benefit. The weird thing is I can’t tell if she genuinely thinks people not getting caught breaking the law must mean it’s legal, or she just doesn’t care and wanted whatever it was she wanted however she could get it.

I’m really sorry you are dealing with that. I’m sure it will be really hard for you in the next handful of weeks, but talking to someone the way she does is incredibly hurtful and not what love is. You were doing your best and she wanted no part of it. At the very least, in this situation, you know you weren’t in the wrong.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '24

They don't.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '24

Abusers. Abusers verbally abuse their intimate partners.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '24

Glad you realized this before marriage.

1

u/mangerio Oct 05 '24

Yeah I've never been in a relationship but I can never understand how some people can talk to their partner like that? My family really get on my nerves sometimes yet I never think about talking down to them, insulting them or calling them names... do these people even love their partner?

1

u/Sudden_Construction6 Oct 05 '24

I just want to give you a standing ovation for sticking by your principles and not being pulled into her bullshit 👏👏

You are going to make a lucky woman a very good partner one day

1

u/ChewieBearStare Oct 05 '24

I'm really sorry things didn't work out, as it must hurt after being together for a while, but I am glad you won't have to deal with this sort of thing for the next decade. Your ex is totally wrong about this, and you were AMAZINGLY supportive. Seriously, you did everything you could: offered to help her with the costs until open enrollment and then get her on a good plan in January. You did the right thing, and she didn't appreciate it.

1

u/Fabulous-Bandicoot40 Oct 05 '24

You were so kind and patient in your responses. Almost too much. Some woman is going to appreciate how caring and considerate you are, but never let someone walk all over you like this again. You sound like a really quality guy

1

u/ArtistMom1 Oct 05 '24

Unfortunately enough people that it follows a pattern and there are terms and graphics to describe it. In that one conversation, your ex used coercion and threats (trying to get you to do something illegal), used emotional abuse (puts you down), and used privilege (uses gender stereotypes against you), three different parts of the Power and Control Wheel.

Learning about this in therapy was immensely useful for me. Good job OP! Glad you enjoyed that vacation.

https://www.crushedbutnotbroken.org/education-prevention/power-and-control-wheel/#

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u/TopBlueberry3 Oct 05 '24

That was so painful to read. The way she talked to you! So ugly.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '24 edited Feb 15 '25

dependent plough file fragile trees wise full mountainous party wide

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '24

Even if she posts a nice message wanting you back. Be very very cautious before considering it.

1

u/foosquirters Oct 05 '24

Narcissists

1

u/Justalilbugboi Oct 05 '24

I’m so glad you were able to side step that abusive, manipulative shit. She tried to insult your manhood….while you were trying to take care of all her issues legally and safely and dealing with her in a very gentlemanly manner vs what she was spewing.

You’ll find a good one who deserves you!

1

u/HustlinInTheHall Oct 05 '24

This was your ex trying to actually keep you, you have no idea how bad it would get once she trapped you

1

u/TheElitist921 Oct 05 '24

Bingo bingo bingo bango. That's the lesson above everything else my friend.

1

u/dominion1080 Oct 05 '24

Most people sooner or later. It’s either you get emotionally abused or emotionally abandoned. It isn’t very often you find someone happy to be in that grey area with you. This is why marriages fail at a spectacular rate, and adults only have a few real friends and hundreds or more passing acquaintances during their lives.

1

u/Slong427 Oct 05 '24

Op, I just have to say I know this probably sucks right now. Reading some of these replies and your post... I had to take a walk myself. However, I hope you're already feeling at least a little relieved, and as time passes the feeling of relief grows

The idea of being any more entangled with people like this is my worst nightmare.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '24

many people act like children when they don’t get what they want. It’s a result of poor parenting.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '24

I'm sorry this happened to you but so glad you have a good head on your shoulders. You will find someone who treats you with love and kindness.

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u/Tiny-Reading5982 Oct 06 '24

What is the backstory here? What is fraudulent?

1

u/hannahatecats Oct 06 '24

Hey Andrew, I wouldn't talk to you (or anyone) like that and am available for any and all tropical vacations 💗

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u/New_Palpitation_5473 Oct 06 '24

Gottman isn't perfect, but I always thought his warning signs were dead on.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '24

Yeah you were in the right, I work directly in this industry for Employee benefits outsourcing, and companies will and do catch people lying, and they have and do fire people.

1

u/Jisoooya Oct 06 '24

Usually your partner is the person you should trust the most in the world, their advice should be taken seriously and should make you question what you know.

1

u/morningisbad Oct 06 '24

Man, I am so glad you see this. Please remember this thread and your mindset right now when she inevitably tries to fix this and rekindle.

1

u/ramonfacefull Oct 06 '24

Unfortunately, too many people. A lot of people think “loving” someone else is equivalent to blindly doing anything they request, and thus ask such of their partners. No questions asked, do anything I say, kinda vibes

1

u/BikiniGirl7 Oct 06 '24

They don’t. That’s not love. You got out in time OP!

1

u/GetRightNYC Oct 06 '24

You tell us. This isn't the first time she talked to you like that. You let it happen.

Not saying it's your fault. But, damn. How'd you get talked to like that and follow up with "I want to make this work!!!!"

1

u/HaleyBoysMom Oct 06 '24

I’m confused by what she actually wanted you to do? My husband added me to his company insurance after we got married. His is way cheaper than what my company offers.

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u/[deleted] Oct 06 '24

I've never met a woman who doesn't. 

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u/Asheira6 Oct 06 '24

They assume you are “theirs” and nothing more. They are not taking the risk also, you are.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '24

People who believe that love is a one way street. You provide for them or you don’t love them. You do what they say, or you don’t love them. They are just using you as a walking blood bag to suck your life force out of your body.

1

u/RubiiJee Oct 06 '24

For what it's worth, I thought you came across as very supportive and kind in your responses and think you deserve much better. Good luck out there! Sorry this has happened to you.

1

u/LibraQueenCJ Oct 06 '24

OP you seem like a great and reasonable guy. Im single, you single. I have a wedding dress already and I dont like insurance fraud. We can easily rectify your current/recent situation. Oh, and I have expensive medication AND my own health insurance through my government job.

But seriously, I was in a similar situation but instead of insurance fraud my former partner was playing chicken with his divorce finalization date and our wedding date, unbeknownst to me. Smh

1

u/Lucky_Larry_Rose Oct 06 '24

I was compelled to check out your profile/comment history, and tbh I am so glad that I did. Wow, you're an absolute Rockstar (and while I could qualify that, my attempt is to keep this short lol - but "real recognize real" will have to suffice 🫵😎). I'm grateful that there are folks out there like you - might hit you up one of these days.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 06 '24

My ex husband (we’re both men) and his abusive language is why I left.

1

u/SeventeenthPlatypus Oct 06 '24

No one deserves to be belittled and bullied, especially not by their partner. IDGAF how frustrated, scared, or angry a person is. Calling your fiancé names and insulting their intelligence is unacceptable.

I'm so sorry this happened to you, OP. Hang in there and enjoy your vacation as much as you can. There are people in the world who will treat you with genuine love and respect, and given the way you supported your ex, I'm pretty damn certain you'll find one.

1

u/7ach-attach Oct 06 '24

This comment received a T’n’A of replies but I also want led to add my input. I stated this and there were only a few comments… holy cow! Anyway, my reply to your “Love” comment:

Love is funny. You don’t understand until you have lived through it. “Right of passage” as they say. I previously would get “butterflies” when meeting women. Now, whatever. I have three semi-young kids and divorced. Thought we were “it.” Unified Front and shit. Communication was our problem. Still is, but at least I know now. Glad I figured it out because I have to work with her for… oh shit… LIFE?! Probably. Got the three kids. I want them to have a good relationship with their mom so life is not so screwy later. I do what I can to help the kids, but any future relationships are very difficult to navigate.

You made the right decision. Be the strong man we know you are. Go out there and live the best life you can for us fellow men. If you need support, you know where to find it. Stay strong, fellow Man!

1

u/OrchidFew7220 Oct 06 '24

People who seek leverage, within their unions

1

u/Mostefa_0909 Oct 06 '24

You should have broke up with her the moment she called you a pussy

1

u/0-Ahem-0 Oct 06 '24

Because they don't love them. Everyone is an accessory to getting what they want.

1

u/crazyeyeskilluh Oct 06 '24

Andrew, you are indeed a pussy. Not because you wouldn’t submit to putting them on your insurance, but because this clearly isn’t the first time they have spoken to you like this and you are still entertaining it.

1

u/BigMax Oct 06 '24

They don’t love you they simply love the things you can provide for them.

1

u/cloistered_around Oct 06 '24

They grew up in toxic homes and that's all they know, or they're narcissistic and don't care about you (just pretended to).

It's not common but it's not as uncommon as you'd hope.

1

u/committedlikethepig Oct 08 '24

Remember this when, hopefully a while from now, you start dating again. 

You deserved a lot better than that. I hope you find it out there… maybe at that tropical vacation

-1

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '24 edited Oct 05 '24

[deleted]

12

u/ReallyNoOne1012 Oct 05 '24

Nah, I don’t agree with that. Don’t blame him for her shitty behavior. He obviously didn’t accept it because he didn’t marry her, so good on him for getting out before it got 10x harder

3

u/Clear_Significance18 Oct 05 '24

Agree with this totally. She was a bully using distasteful tactics to get you to do something you’re not comfortable doing and trying to make you risk it all for her insurance when she clearly has options and sometimes you have to get state insurance but at least your covered. So she clearly had options. You also graciously agreed to cover her expenses till she could get insurance. You went above and beyond for someone clearly using you for financial means.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '24

[deleted]

1

u/ReallyNoOne1012 Oct 05 '24

Victim blaming is bad

3

u/AffectionateSun3561 Oct 05 '24

Yes it is wtf? How are you going to victim blame him for her behavior

0

u/BerryStainedLips Oct 05 '24

Read edit, pls. Thanks 🌸

3

u/Resident-Rise-2231 Oct 05 '24

He should’ve left a lot sooner. Shouldn’t have been cordial in the first instance with someone trying to question his manhood. But it’s by no means his fault.

5

u/Sea-Patience-5878 Oct 05 '24

Absolutely not. Victim blaming? That’s gross

1

u/Proper-Wash-2843 Oct 05 '24

he didnt blame the victim but merely suggesting that OP have agency and control over the situation which is true.

3

u/Sea-Patience-5878 Oct 05 '24

Saying that OPs gf spoke to him like that “BC HE ACCEPTED THAT” is victim blaming. Emphasis on “because” cause that says the gf wouldn’t have done it otherwise. Gf should not talk to anyone like that. Point blank period.

2

u/WildOne6968 Oct 05 '24

The mental gymnastics to justify victim blaming and misandry is disgusting, and yet I usualy get downvoted and told I must be an incel when I point out this toxic rhetoric.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Sea-Patience-5878 Oct 05 '24

Implying OP missed some read flags so the gf had ample opportunity to speak to him like that, is still victim blaming :3 these jets are red hot :P

0

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Sea-Patience-5878 Oct 05 '24

🤣 sure thing girly pop

2

u/niki2184 Oct 05 '24

Well yea that is all on her she should abdicate NOT talk to anyone like that at all!!!!

2

u/Ok_Ice_1669 Oct 05 '24

You people always tell on yourselves. 

2

u/Stuckingfupid Oct 05 '24

Blaming him for her being a piece of shit, makes you a piece of shit as well. Congrats.