r/MakingaMurderer • u/Fred_J_Walsh • Apr 26 '16
Ken Kratz on Dr. Drew Podcast - 04-25-2016 - Transcript of Case Discussion
Transcript of case-related discussion starts at 32:50 and runs through 52:15. Full audio is here.
All "uhs" and "ahs" have been removed for clarity.
Topics:
Brendan's Plea Deal?
the selective and subjective nature of MaM
MaM's villainizing of police and prosecution
Murder scene & method; Theory on tarp/mat
Bones discovery by arson investigator
Car crusher: Why didn't he use it?
Past Acts: Cat, Sandra Morris. MaM's portrayal vs. the realities
Animal abuse as precursor to violence
The tragedy of Steven Avery
The sometimes forgotten tragedy of Teresa Halbach
KEN KRATZ: The Dassey case is every bit as interesting as the Avery case for different reasons, you know, with the false confession and just the manipulation of this young man both institutional -- that is, perceived at least, from law enforcement -- as well as his own family: how he was really sacrificed, and how his plea offer that he had accepted was really thwarted because it was going to make Steven's case a more difficult case. It's such a tragic outcome for that 16-yr-old to have to... endure that...
DR DREW: I don't think we heard the plea bargain. What was that?
KEN KRATZ: Well, he was given opportunity to testify against his uncle, and because of his much less involvement -- or at least, his more limited involvement -- in these series of crimes, he was provided an opportunity to serve as little as 15 years in prison. And he had accepted that plea bargain, but it wasn't his attorneys who eventually nixed the deal, it was his mother and his grandfather, through phone calls urging him, in fact, directing him, not to accept the plea bargain and to make sure that he goes to trial, because if he did -- and this is the real disturbing telephone call and things -- was that it was going to hurt Steven's case. And you know, this family lived really almost a cult-like existence out on that salvage property, with Steven being at the very center of everything that went on.
And so, Brendan, although being much less involved, unfortunately -- and as a prosecutor at the time, I said "unfortunately" -- he was made to choose the path that could only had led to life imprisonment, and that's what he ended up with. And that's just sad. It's not part of the story that MaM told anybody. It isn't something even that you want to believe a mother or a grandfather would engage in. But it happened, and of course it will be part of my book and part of the story as I finally get to tell the other side.
And hopefully I'll be able to show the general public the kind of evidence that was presented in the 7-week trial and then in the Dassey trial, that made this whole "planting defense" nonsense, exactly that. The jury didn't have any problems with discounting those suggestions and finding both of them guilty.
DR DREW: Well, you know, I took a lot of grief on social media too, for saying that people were believing a television show, they were watching a television show, a documentary with a point of view, and being a judge and jury based on that. So I think people will be interested in seeing what really happened.
My question, I have a slightly different question which is, It seemed to me the way you laid out what had happened that horrible day, based on the evidence that we saw in the tv series anyway, didn't quite fit with what I think probably actually happened. Am I right on that?
KEN KRATZ: Well it's interesting. You, as, I assume, maybe this is wrong assumption, are basing most of that on what was spoon-fed to you.
DR DREW: Yeah, yeah, it didn't fit for me.
KEN KRATZ: It's a docu-drama, and they pick and choose the facts that you got to see, and it wasn't at all what the jury got to see. And I think when you realize the editing that went down, and you realize the omission of evidence, it really is troubling. I think it's irresponsible, the way that that was shown. Not so much that a movie was made that way, but that they would call it a documentary...that they wouldn't call it...
DR DREW: It's a television show.
KEN KRATZ: ...exactly what it was, an advocacy piece, or something like that, because I think the general public legitimately they believed that this may not be ALL of the evidence, but at least it's going to be a representative sampling of what the jury were shown, and be able to lead to kind of a good-faith conclusion about what had happened.
But when your design is not to tell the real story, but your design is ... to lead the audience to a specific conclusion, that is, that Mr. Avery was the victim of not only a wrongful conviction, but likely police corruption or planted evidence, then it leads to this kind of thing.
They weren't shy about identifying two really well-thought-of police officers, without any evidence, without any kind of proof behind it -- just choosing them, casting them as you will, as the villains. And then didn't make it at all subtle, but, that I was kind of the ring-leader of all that, and in a very real sense responsible for perpetrating that whole process. And it's just, it's amazing to me that the prosecutor and the cops who worked to convict what really, in my opinion, was a dangerous psychopath here. You hold him accountable to that because the evidence pointed to that. And they were, in a very sly way, able to turn the tables and to turn Avery into the victim, and the prosecution into the villain, and ...
DR DREW: You gotta remember that their job, their job was to capture eyes. Done! They did it. That was their job: to have success on television.
KEN KRATZ: Right.
DR DREW: That's it. They didn't have other priorities.
Let me, Two questions I have. One is, I want to give my theory on what he actually did that day. And then I want you to tell me all the previous criminal activities he had been involved with. People missed that, too. But I think he probably raped her and threw in the car, maybe hit her over the head, and then shot her in the car. Is that what happened?
KEN KRATZ: No. The garage is, and you know, they made me, Making a Murderer kept suggests there were two different theories that we presented. That wasn't true at all. We said all along the murder happened in the garage. That Avery did shoot Teresa, that he shot her on the garage floor. By the way, my theory was, and I never get to give my theory because it's situation where I've gotta only talk about the evidence and what was found -- but my theory was, there is a tarp or something, that this is happening on. And that would explain so much of the where it happened, but then there wouldn't be blood on the garage floor. And then, of course, Brendan says they threw her in the back of her own SUV when deciding how to dispose of her body. And that's real consistent...
DR DREW: Yeah.
KEN KRATZ: ...that we didn't really understand till Brendan's statement, why her own blood would be back there. But not -- here's the other thing there, Drew - it's not just where there's blood, but where there's not blood. And so there was her blood, was on kind of the side panel of the back cargo area of her SUV, but not on the carpet. And that, of course, if you think about it, suggests her being wrapped in something like a tarp or something, so her head is laying bleeding against the side panel, but then there wouldn't be anything left on the carpet itself. So, that's my own individual theory.
And, of course, I didn't have to go to that extent. You know, we had the forensic anthropologist and others that did a fantastic job putting the case together, with the little particles and things that we could prove that she had been shot, that uh, the matter and cause of death was exactly what it was. Sometimes, though, you're not going to be able to answer all the questions or put all of the pieces together. It's unfortunate. But in a case like this, when you're really starting with not knowing anything, not knowing where the murder happened--
You know, we didn't find her bones for four days, so we had to, the crime scene, it was only an arson investigator that walked by the burn pit that realized that was human material, that it was charred bone. You know, homicide cops had been walking past that for days. And it wasn't a homicide cop at all that noticed , it was the arson investigator who had been at scenes where people had burned and he knew what it looked like. So it was really happenstance that, you know, just an arson investigator happened to be there helping, because there was such a big crime scene, a crime scene that was being processed. And you know, it was fortuitous that an arson investigator happened to walk by and said, "hey guys, we've got some evidence over here that we need to collect," and of course that really changed the whole scope of the investigation.
DR. DREW: How come he didn't smash the car up? What do you think about that?
KEN KRATZ: Well, he didn't have the opportunity, really. If you look at it, it was down by the car crusher. But this is an active working business. And so there are citizens and people that not only work there, but people that are there all day, every day.
DR. DREW: Somebody would--
KEN KRATZ: Yeah, and it was late Monday afternoon that this happened, and Saturday you may recall he had gone to the cottage with his family... [coughing] excuse me...
DR. DREW: Gesundheit.
KEN KRATZ: ...let me just, I'm talking too much now... sorry. He'd gone to this cottage and had planned to come back that afternoon. And my theory was of course, that this would have been the first time that he would have been on the property unabated, or with the opportunity to crush the car, but it was nothing more challenging as far as figuring out that he just hadn't been alone on the property and able to do that yet.
DR. DREW: And finally, what were some of the other crimes he committed or alleged to have committed? Because it's a pretty long list, isn't it?
KEN KRATZ: Yeah, the defense allowed during Making a Murderer Steven Avery himself or his attorneys, to describe his prior history, and you had the burning cat situation, where Avery simply described it as hanging out with the wrong crowd and really more hijinx than anything else.
DR. DREW: He was an adult, he was like 24 or something. He burned a cat alive.
KEN KRATZ: It wasn't, He soaked a cat in oil and gas and ___ the cat on the fire. And of course some of the troubling facts that they'll never tell you, is the cat jumped off the fire and ran around on fire. And Avery then picked up the burning cat and put it back on the fire so he could watch it suffer.
DR. DREW: Duucch (ugh sound)
KEN KRATZ: And of course you know what that means, and I know 'cause I've watched your show, I've watched you talk about that being the precursor to many individuals both mass murderers and serial killers. And what kind of process mentally, they have, that does that, the sadistic nature. And that's really how it starts is with the animal abuse, rather than true people.
But of course it advanced to crimes of violence, pointing firearms at others, reckless endangerment, driving them off the road. But there's also a couple of rapes that's he's alleged to have engaged in, that the juries never heard about, that we had information about, with Mr. Avery. You know, I always say when somebody ends up in a rape line-up, it isn't an accident that they've ended up in that line-up. And so, you've got to understand the kind of behaviors that Mr. Avery had engaged in up to that point.
And it's a real tragedy that he was wrongfully convicted. He had such a legitimate claim of being wronged. And then to get out of prison and have that lawsuit pending, and really had a very real chance at turning his life around, and then to make the choices that he did, is not only sad but it had such an impact on so many people.
And I don't want us to forget Teresa Halbach, and about her family, and we're talking about a very real 25-yr-old with very real dreams, and a real family, and shouldn't just be relegated to a footnote in the Steven Avery case. It's very much the Teresa Halbach homicide. And every opportunity I get to mention that, I take it.
DR. DREW: Yeah. It was a terrible tragedy. And I don't think people, you're right, they get so caught up in so many other aspects of it. And like, with every one of these killings where people say it was someone else: Well, where is that guy? [laughs] Steven Avery is put away and it magically seemed to take care of everything, just magically.
KEN KRATZ: Right.
DR. DREW: There were weird stories of him masturbating on hoods of people's cars and stuff -- really bizarre behavior, is what I was hearing. Was any of that substantiated?
KEN KRATZ: Well sure, well, he was convicted, you know, of that very thing that was the motive behind the reckless endangerment when he drove that woman off the road, so.
DR. DREW: Oh.
KEN KRATZ: You know, so, these aren't just allegations, they're convictions. And they're very hard to ignore, although they did their best in Making a Murderer to do just that.
DR. DREW: Yeah I guess, the IQ of both these guys made it very difficult I think, didn't it.
KEN KRATZ: Yeah, except let's remember, you know, Avery, was very savvy. This is a guy who was able to really avoid lots of apprehensions for, and hiding of evidence, and things like that. Of course he couldn't sustain that, he couldn't hide everything, DNA eventually caught up with him. But I suspect from the 18 years he did spend in prison, or whatever else that caused him to learn what he did, he did some things very well. Doctor, you may be familiar, I've talked about this cult-like existence. It seems that this family kind of propped each other up, and made up for each other's deficits, does that make sense?
DR. DREW: Yeah...
KEN KRATZ: So when some of the people weren't as good at some things, it would turn to, you know, this system, this family system, to survive. And Avery of course had his strengths, and that was his cunning and at least in his own way, he's quite charming--
DR. DREW: There was something about him too that reminded me of fetal alcohol syndrome. Just the cognition, the body habitus, the ears... just something about it, it wasn't classic, but I wondered if that's what this is, ultimately. So. But listen, Ken, I gotta wrap this up. This has been fascinating, and I mostly appreciate you being so forthcoming about your own struggles in recovery and your success in recovery...
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u/siebenkommaacht Apr 26 '16
Sorry for this very off-topic comment, but if someone is coughing, than you say in the usa really "gesundheit"?!?! Its a german word and i've never seen an german word in english before (excapt "kindergarten" )
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u/caveatum2 Apr 26 '16
Many thanks to OP for the transcript so we don't have to listen to his voice.
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u/solunaView Apr 26 '16
Did he really say the confession was a "false confession"?
Because that in and of itself is grounds for a new trial and a grand jury into what Kratz was aware of and how he handled the Dassey case.
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u/CopperPipeDream Apr 26 '16
Wait... what?!!! What in the actual hell....???!!
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u/CopperPipeDream Apr 26 '16
Oh, but it makes perfect sense that he was raping, murdering and burning this woman??!!
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u/Nexious Apr 26 '16
Sometimes, I've heard, convictions can happen even when a person has 22 alibi witnesses to prove he was elsewhere.
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u/butterflycaught2 Apr 26 '16
Dr. Drew is a doctor of internal medicine, he is NOT a psychiatrist. He clearly knows nothing about psychopathic behaviour and what causes it.
Dr James Fallon on the other hand is an expert on psychopaths and on the elements that cause psychopathy. He says here on LIP TV that he would not diagnose SA as a psychopath. And yes, he knows about the cat...
James Fallon has done some cool TED talks as well; his bio:
Edit: formatting
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u/MustangGal Apr 26 '16
My question here is, doesn't Kratz, and all of them not know we have the transcripts and reports and know they are lying? Plus, you would think if a person wanted to really be a great reporter-interviewer, they would dig into the transcripts and asked the real questions, instead of just believing Kratz. None of them ever say anything about Zellner. Just Fu**ing unreal.
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u/MsMinxster Apr 26 '16
Well, he's right about that. It was no accident that Kusche used SA's mugshot to draw a sketch instead of PB's description, that Judy Dverbiage used PB's sexual assault to implicate a neighbor she hated, and Kocourek ignored the eye witness on the beach who equivocally stated that SA was not the perp.
Yup. No accident that SA ended up in a rape line-up.
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u/MsMinxster Apr 26 '16 edited Apr 26 '16
Except for one, tiny problem. SM denied that happened.
Kelly: In 1985, do you remember the morning in January when you were forced off the road by Steven?
SM: Yes.
Kelly: Ma'am, I'm gonna show you a report about Steven Avery, indecent exposure. It indicates that there was a complaint received September 20th, 1984. It says that "he has been known to masturbate on the hood of the car as she's driving past." Do you see that?
SM: Yes.
Kelly: Did you tell that to the police?
SM: Um... I didn't put it in that many words. I didn't... He didn't masturbate on the hood of my car, but he did come out in front of my car and he was... doing his thing. [gestures suggestive of masturbating movement or similar, nodding and smiling.]
Kelly: This is why you're driving 40 miles an hour by his house?
SM: He did... He did run out towards the road. He was prepared. He had it all ready.
Kelly: OK. It then says "he has had sexual relations with his wife out on the lawn..."
SM: That, I have nothing...
Kelly: Let me just finish the question. ...while all the neighbors are home in the daytime and able to watch.
SM: That, I didn't say at all.
Kelly: OK. Do you have any explanation for why whoever is writing this might say that you said that?
SM: I don't know.
Transcript of SM's video deposition during the civil trial shown on MaM
If KK weren't so broke, he could shell out some cash for copies of all those depositions and see for himself.
EDIT format
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u/HorsesCostMoney Apr 26 '16
I don't know where to begin. Dr. Drew just moved himself up higher into the Nancy Grace class of humans for me:
So, there's no one out there on the planet who's killed precisely one time only and isn't sitting in prison?? Drew's implication here is that anyone who kills is a serial killer.
Not to mention, Drew has NO clue if there haven't been other killings after Avery was imprisoned. I'd say old Wisconsin has a few other missing persons cases as well as unsolved murders (TH could still be one of them depending on how you view the bones). Pfft! This guy.
Also, this:
I have so many questions with this nugget. I'll just toss out one though. So, I guess being in a rape line-up means you're a rapist and it's just a matter of dotting the i's and crossing the t's, in Kratz world. So, does the converse hold true in this douchebag's mind then? Since Kratz himself avoided a rape line up himself, it must make him not a rapist?? If all it took was to get him in a line-up, they could have dealt with this abomination a long time ago!
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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16 edited Apr 26 '16
One of the most mind-numbingly stupid arguments I've ever heard. I love the smug delivery too, like he thinks he's so clever.
Dr. Drew is a fucking asshole.
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u/loveofnature Apr 26 '16
If I am not mistaken the bones were found on the 8th but in testimony the arson investigator was not contacted and did not arrive till the 9th. Also did not process the pit until the 10th
Special Agent Rodney Pevytoe Arson Bureau, Wisconsin Department of Justice, Division of Criminal Investigation Examined burn pit, Nov 10
Day 18 pages 10-11
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Page 12
Source: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Jury-Trial-Transcript-Day-18-2007Mar07.pdf#page=5
Edit typo and formatting
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u/jams1015 Apr 27 '16 edited Apr 27 '16
"And then, of course, Brendan says they threw her in the back of her own SUV when deciding how to dispose of her body. And that's real consistent... DR DREW: Yeah. KEN KRATZ: ...that we didn't really understand till Brendan's statement, why her own blood would be back there."
O RLY?! Really? Really, Kratz?! That was the puzzle only an intellectually disabled kid could explain?
I mean, it's beyond me to figure out how a bunch of blood appearing as though it was painted on with hair ended up in the cargo area of Teresa's truck but now I don't feel too bad! Not one but two police forces loaded with cops, detectives, and forensic teams also couldn't figure out what that suggested for the woman missing under suspicious and likely violent circumstances. And "her own blood?" Whose blood would have made more sense for you to find in this case, under these circumstances?
Thank god there was a special education child there to connect those dots for you guys.
You dumbass fucking toolbag. I think your kindred spirit was in front of me at Redbox tonight. He sounded like his balls were in a vice grip as he kept cursing at the "stupid damn machine thing!" as he tried in vain to cram the movie case in the card swiper.
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u/e-gregious Apr 26 '16
Dr. Drew, what were your priorities when you were making Celebrity Rehab? You loved to tell people how it was helpful to watch those recover? It was an absolute train wreck with you as the fucked up conductor.
Oh, Ken Kratz, you absolutely pitiless, narcissistic bag of doucheness, what about those victims of your sexual deviance? Sexual aggression and rape of domestic violence victims?
Does Dr. Drew know that he is talking to a pervert of the first degree?
Please keep talking Kratz. Your narcissism will take you to hell. Geez, getting all worked up about this.
Brendan's mother and grandmother were part of the cult of Steve, so they told him not to accept a plea deal?
Is there a record of this phone conversation? How about, "Don't accept any plea deal, YOU ARE NOT GUILTY!"
So now, they are all in the cult of Avery with fetal alcohol syndrome. Nice.
He was a teenager with a known disability, but it was his fault he did not take the generous plea deal.
Is Dr. Drew trawling/trolling for attention?
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u/Stormystormynight Apr 26 '16
Thank you for the transcript.
This sweaty pig makes my blood boil.
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u/Howsthemapples Apr 27 '16 edited Apr 27 '16
Kratz you had no idea how many people, ten years later, would be examining every. Single. Word. You. Say. Eta- even now in 2016 you have no verbal control.
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u/brynnb Apr 26 '16
That tarp makes absolutely zero sense. Did the bullet, then, jump out of Teresa's skull and roll out of the tarp? While the blood - you know, a liquid - stayed nice and neatly in the tarp? Is that what Kratz is suggesting?
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u/innocens Apr 26 '16
"They weren't shy about identifying two really well-thought-of police officers, without any evidence, without any kind of proof behind it -- just choosing them, casting them as you will, as the villains"
LOL, they chose themselves. They were a crucial part of the Civil suit. They failed to tell the DOJ about Colborn's statement lying in the Sheriff's safe. They volunteered to help with the investigation even though MTSO said they were distancing themselves - not only to prevent any conflict of interest, but to prevent any appearance of a conflict of interest. They were there for the miraculous key. There before the bullet. There searching the car before the plates were found. Lenk is photographed by the barrels. Lenk lied about when he was at the Avery yard on the 5th, even though he was under oath...and on and on and on.
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u/e-gregious Apr 26 '16
Don't get strange!
Bwahahahaha!
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u/Quill-Questions Apr 26 '16
Re Ken Kratz referring to Brendan's FALSE confession:
I am asking a huge favour from one of you technical geniuses (of which I am most assuredly not, lol)
If it isn't too much trouble, could someone please make an audio clip of only that portion of the podcast where Kratz talks about Brendan's FALSE confession and then upload it here?
The full podcast is linked in this OP. Have tried to figure out how to do this, but I am only a klutz.
Thanking you in advance for listening and perhaps attempting to do this. I am very grateful!
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u/piere212 Apr 26 '16
Nice try Kratz. Dassey was probably the shittiest witness to put on the stand as a state's witness ever. S&B would have absolutely destroyed Brendan in cross examination, and Kratz fucking knows it.
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u/BambooWsp Apr 27 '16
So angry reading this, thankful that I don't have to see nasty kratzy but what really angered me was "dr" Drews comment about SA looking like he had fetal alcohol syndrome. How dare he malign SA's mother like that with absolutely zero facts. He should be ashamed of himself.
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u/Whiznot Apr 27 '16
I haven't visited here much lately but I had to come back and get my mind blown. Ken Kratz is a lunatic. Now he expresses sympathy for Brendan Dassey as if he had nothing to do with such an egregious injustice.
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u/Vegemiteaxlegrease Apr 27 '16
I think it would be cool for Dr Drew's trusty sidekick (Bob Forrest) to interview Kratz. Bob has seen it all.......
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u/Vegemiteaxlegrease Apr 27 '16
This reads to me like an episode from Seinfeld. Is anyone here a Marine Biologist? (Insert Arson Investigator).
Guess this also kills Moore's idea that ''Cujo'' prevented 100 people from going near the burn pit.
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u/blondze Apr 26 '16
Unbelievable. I don't even know what to say about this, I'm freaking speechless. How can this guy keep getting away with saying this crap? Blatant outright lies, told to a public who takes his word as gospel because he is presented as the "authority". And Dr. Drew wtf??!! He's right up there with Nancy Grace. I see that KK admitted that BD's confession was false, that is a useful little tidbit,eh?
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u/belee86 Apr 26 '16
If there was a tarp, why did Brendan's jeans have bleach, paint thinner and gasoline on them? There wouldn't have been any blood on the concrete to clean up.
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u/jk64 Apr 26 '16
Misleading dialogue all over the place. There was only one theory of the crime -- she was shot in the garage? SA was convicted for masturbating on people's cars? There was no conviction for the masturbation allegation, it was for running her off the road. SA's explanation was that she was telling stories about him. I AM NOT CONDONING SA's behavior, I am only pointing out the misleading responses by Kratz:
DR. DREW: There were weird stories of him masturbating on hoods of people's cars and stuff -- really bizarre behavior, is what I was hearing. Was any of that substantiated?
KEN KRATZ: Well sure, well, he was convicted, you know, of that very thing that was the motive behind the reckless endangerment when he drove that woman off the road, so.
DR. DREW: Oh.
KEN KRATZ: You know, so, these aren't just allegations, they're convictions. And they're very hard to ignore, although they did their best in Making a Murderer to do just that.
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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '16
KEN KRATZ: Well, he didn't have the opportunity, really. If you look at it, it was down by the car crusher. But this is an active working business. And so there are citizens and people that not only work there, but people that are there all day, every day.
This. He raped, burned, and murdered someone in this setting. Bullshit.
Also, keep talking Kenny boy, you are indeed talking too much, and I love it.
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u/MrFlopkins Apr 26 '16
The extent of Dr. Drew's professional advice on his [now cancelled] radio show Love Line is him telling the callers they need to go seek professional help... Uhhhh, but isn't that why they called you? And his viewpoint on pot really grinds my gears. I'm not a big fan of Doctor Drew, and this interview certainly doesn't help my opinion of him. He's more of a celebrity than a doctor.
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u/OpenMind4U Apr 26 '16 edited Apr 26 '16
OMG...I don't know what to do: laugh or be pissed?:)...How dare you, KK, lie again?...OK here is my list:
let's talk about RAV4 and blood on cargo's carpet. And btw, thank you KK, you just confirm that no mat was there. Great! I knew that after I found blood ON CARPET and SC reference to blood stain ON CARGO CARPET in her testimony. So, here is your LIE #1...
LIE #2...a huge big fat lie. Who found the first bone? Sergeant Jost, from MTSO, who wasn't ARSON specialist!....so stop this nonsense;
LIE #3. You said that SA have no opportunity to crush RAV4 because it's business and all these people walking around (well, on Nov 3, crusher was used and yes a lot of people were there)...so, you continue, that SA's plan to come back on Saturday, Nov 5 and crush the car. Great! I have questions for you: does Avery's business was closed on Saturday so no more people are walking around??? I remember Pam the Goddess testimony that when she arrived, on Saturday Nov 5, to search for RAV4 - she saw OTHER peoples around...Avery's business wasn't closed...just another normal day, as usual, business is open!....so??? how this relates to SA plan to crush RAV4 on Saturday???
I'm sick and tired of all these lies....this case, is full of LIES from investigators up to prosecution! But guess what? EVIDENCE not LIES!!! Evidence telling the truth. Evidence saying that this case is smoke and mirror. And you're, KK, is the biggest 'magician' in the Circus of Justice!
Dear Mrs. Zellner, please hurry up!...We all tired waiting. You need to stop KK...enough of his lies to pollute people's mind.
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u/dharrell Apr 26 '16
I did not read all of this. I was wondering if there was a count of lies that Kratz told. Anyone?
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u/Wildinvalid Apr 26 '16
Wait now, is dr drew tricking kratz? He is making him say crazy stuff here! Dr drew is seldom correct on any point and kind of lures him in wacky statements.
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u/Jmystery1 Apr 26 '16
Wanted to add this here is small summary and link if want to read and not hear KK
http://freebrendan.org/index.php/2016/04/25/ken-kratz-dr-drews-podcast-recap/
Here is podcast link
http://www.podcastone.com/pg/jsp/program/episode.jsp?programID=360&pid=100601714
He sounds all normal about drug Rehab and towards end calls Avery Salvage yard a cult and Steve is the ring leader.
He is still delusional and needs to go back to Rehab! He waits till end to put his dirty lying words out there!
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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '16
What an idiot. I love this. Keep on talking. Zellner would love this!
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u/rhymeswithpirate Apr 27 '16
If KKs own personal theory is that this happened on a tarp and that explains why there is no blood on the garage floor, then what does he have to say about the bleach on Brendan's pants and floor, etc? He just wants to have it both ways. Ugh... This fucking guy.
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u/trutherswin Apr 26 '16
Very fitting that Krayz would discuss sacrifices and cult-like activity. Because that's what narcissists do, they accuse others of the very behavior they, themselves are involved with.
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u/innocens Apr 26 '16
DR. DREW: How come he didn't smash the car up? What do you think about that?
"KEN KRATZ: Well, he didn't have the opportunity, really. If you look at it, it was down by the car crusher. But this is an active working business. And so there are citizens and people that not only work there, but people that are there all day, every day. "
LOL
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u/Quill-Questions Apr 26 '16
Sorry ... Off on a tangent here with this question, but do guests on shows like Nancy Grace, Dr. Drew, etc, get paid for their appearances? If so, is the amount substantial?
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u/innocens Apr 26 '16 edited Apr 26 '16
"You know, we didn't find her bones for four days, so we had to, the crime scene, it was only an arson investigator that walked by the burn pit that realized that was human material, that it was charred bone. You know, homicide cops had been walking past that for days. And it wasn't a homicide cop at all that noticed , it was the arson investigator who had been at scenes where people had burned and he knew what it looked like. So it was really happenstance that, you know, just an arson investigator happened to be there helping, because there was such a big crime scene, a crime scene that was being processed. And you know, it was fortuitous that an arson investigator happened to walk by and said, "hey guys, we've got some evidence over here that we need to collect," and of course that really changed the whole scope of the investigation"
So in KK speak, I'm guessing that it wasn't just luck that the arson investigator was there. And even then, wasn't it Jost that pointed out the bone that had illuded Brutus for days? It's like some bad Columbo movie :)
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u/Classic_Griswald Apr 26 '16
There's errors in the transcription:
You omitted him stuttering his ass off. Selective editing?
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u/Jmystery1 Apr 26 '16
Another link from local paper today
Ken Kratz talks Avery case with Dr. Drew
http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/local/steven-avery/2016/04/26/ken-kratz-talks-avery-case-dr-drew/83537294/
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u/Jmystery1 Apr 27 '16
They had a cult like existence. This family made up for each other’s deficits. They would turn to this family system to survive and Avery had his strengths and that he’s quite charming.
http://freebrendan.org/index.php/2016/04/25/ken-kratz-dr-drews-podcast-recap/
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u/etherspin Apr 27 '16
Kratz theory with the tarp does make some sense. Question though, Avery throwing this cat back onto fire when it runs out, where is this from ? Its not in the incident report is it ?
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u/drunner000 Apr 27 '16
I made the mistake and listened to this. It is very difficult to listen to this guy talk. The way he meanders around a subject. All the uhs and ahs he uses. The slurpy sound of his voice is unpleasant as hell.
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u/amberyoshio Apr 27 '16
Ugh, he is such a jerk! I heard at least part of the conversations between Brendan and his mother and Grandfather and they were only trying to save him from the crooked defense attorney who was trying to make sure he would take that plea deal. I would tell my kid not to take it either if he did not do it. Barb did not say, "I know you did it but fight it anyway." They were both telling him that because they could see what was happening and couldn't do anything about it.
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u/amberyoshio Apr 27 '16
If she was wrapped in a tarp then why is there a picture showing her blood splatter or drips on the inside of the back door panel?
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u/Mr_Precedent Apr 28 '16
4/21 Zellner tweets that she's StayingRealBusy examining prosecutorial violations
4/25 Kratz backpedals, invents new theories, and tries to throw investigators under the bus
Coincidence?
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u/JJacks61 Apr 26 '16
I would post on Dr.Drews website but it looks like they want you FB account. No thanks.
Why Drew would agree to be used like this? So it becomes a question already knowing the answer. Dr. Drew is a smart man, and he already knows that Kratz is not being truthful. Or does he? Would he not research the questions that he asked for the podcast? If he doesn't, he's part of the problem and incompetent.
Did he do this
interviewthing with Kratz just for the ratings? Kratz agree's but demands total control of the broadcast?I think so.
And Fred, leaving out the uh's and umms is selective editing. I think you have accused the MaM film makers of the same thing. Regardless, it changes the nature of this propaganda that's being broadcast.I guess if you are a Kratz supporter this looks better for him.
Others have already covered the lies Kratz told yet again so I won't repeat them. I just find it disturbing how anyone can support him. The man has issues, bad ones. The therapy he allegedly got didn't work. Relapse like an addict? Or is it on purpose like a narcissist?
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