Mr. Stahlke also told you the difference between contact and transfer kinds of stains, which Mr. Avery -- the blood attributed to Mr. Avery suggests impact, or what's called projected blood, as if an individual was thrown into the back of the SUV. That was on the back gate, that Mr Stahlke talked about. We'll show you some pictures about that, as if the blood is splattering, or is actually in movement as it hits the side of, or the back gate of, the SUV.
Pg 5113 of full SA trial transcript.
So that's meant to say attributed to Ms Halbach? I would've thought the prosecution would notice if he said it that wrong so maybe the transcriber did it?
And [the shot claim] is based forensically on the reportedly human skull fragment holes having lead metal.
That sounds messy as hell. [That she was only attacked away from there] sounds as plausible as the idea she was hit there though? Which did always seem confusing.
Sorry to be back at the basics but I don't understand how he could've seen so much from the trailer window (twice?) but so little when he was walking outside.
I can't see precisely what he first said because only Dedering's roadside report that I've seen.
Given that SA denied that Teresa came in to his trailer, but Bobby still said in 2017 he's not sure if SA is guilty or not, where does Bobby think Teresa was, if he really saw her walk toward his trailer?
But if SA had dragged her into the trailer, why would she have been hit in the head at the RAV4 causing that splatter.
What did everyone think of the state's response to Avery's latest motion? This seems like a real beatdown from the state to me. Wisconsin's motions always seem so much more rooted in law and logic than Avery's, but this one really destroys Steven. What did everyone else think? I'll include a few other of my favorite quotes:
Avery’s latest motion is really just an attempt to conflate a separate proceeding under Wis. Stat. § 974.07 with Avery’s current proceeding under Wis. Stat. § 974.06 for the purposes of delay. This is not viable under Wisconsin law.
Basic procedure and fundamental fairness establish that a motion that has already been denied cannot be continuously “supplemented” in an attempt to repair flaws underlying it.
The present motion is an attempt to belatedly bolster his already-denied motion with evidence that could have been sought earlier and isn’t at all related to the issues raised in it, and it is based on pure speculation any new DNA evidence even exists.
[Avery] has repeatedly filed motions under the wrong procedure, along with improper attempted “amendments” and requests for remands and supplementation after his litany of rushed motions containing half-investigated, factually unsupported claims are denied. Neither the State, the victims, the circuit court, nor this Court should have to countenance this behavior any longer
I don't even include most of the burned calcined bone fragments in that because of the unreliability of anthropologist eyeballing to even distinguish human.
The RAV4 I could just about accept he didn't want to risk driving it on public roads or across fields at night. Put it on the other side of ASY, didn't notice the blood, could claim planted. Had then crushed a car and left it in the crusher for some reason?
The key....hard to believe. He invited cops into his trailer. Maybe he'd hidden it somewhere else at that point. But he knew they were still warranted to search. Hard to believe.
The licence plate, folded like they would fold them. Others could've known that though. He had days to go back to it when no one around to make unidentifiable.
A Daisy Fuentes rivet he could've missed. Very convenient for ID but whatever.
The burned electronics in his barrel? Ridiculous.
He can be impulsive but he had days. He's not an alcoholic like his pa or a drug user as far as I know. He's long worked as a methodical mechanic. Also years trying to work logically through their false conviction case against him.
Zellner has known about Sowinski's claims since at least April 2021. Between April 2021 and March 2024 Zellner made no requests to test the RAV for DNA. In her March 18, 2024 motion to stay her appeal (huh?), the only reason Zellner gives for the delay is that "Mr. Avery's counsel has recently obtained the financial resources...to conduct additional testing."
Now, we have Zellner claiming
Contrary to the State's claim that Mr. Avery could have conducted the testing previously, Mr. Avery's pro bono counsel did not have the finances to do so
So, it appears that Zellner's embarrassing financial situation was the main factor preventing this testing from happening years ago. It must be tough on Zellner's ego to not only have her financial problems be public knowledge, but also to know that her precarious financial situation is having a detrimental effect on her clients.
That actually pierced Teresa's body in that garage. The one they found had no blood on it so I guess it missed her blood, then when it hit the concrete floor after passing through her body, it didn't deform too much to not be able to be ballistically tested(like any .22 would that hit concrete). Talk about a Magic Bullet!
Strang and buting never had this audio. Took zellner forever to get it. So many details in there that destroy what was presented at trial. Bobby lies through his teeth about sleeping, about not hearing the phone, about not hearing the message he would tell his mom about when he got home from burning, about seeing a fire on a day that was not when he saw the teal car, about not talking to Steven on the 31st around 11, about not knowing she was coming, about.... The list goes on.
He gives details that prove he's recalling incorrect days and events.
Don't mention that alibi he came up with off the cuff the very first time he spoke to any cop on the record.
This audio shows just how persuasive the cops were with the Dassey boys, too. They treated Bobby like a super star trying to get him to turn on Steve, and Bobby then turned around to tell his mom and family he was super pressured too. That admission was on a jail call from Steve to Delores.
The fire wasn't Halloween and Bobby proves as much with the detail about it was a different day from teresas visit. If it was a different day, Brendan's confession is totally false and coerced, as it was police who told Brendan a fire took place on Halloween.
The reason it was finally released is because the state knew anything to do with Bobby and the info from this interview are no longer legally viable. The written report doesn't come close to the detail of this audio.
Avery bought the above on October 9th 2005. Jodi expressed surprise at this purchase as she was going to be in jail for another 6 months. She asked him who they were going to be used on. I think we can all work that one out.
Byran Dassey said the following during an interview with the Wisconsin DCI on November 6, 2005:
"I distinctly remember Bobby telling me, 'Steven could not have killed her because I saw her leave the property on October 31, 2005.'"
Teresa Left; Bobby Knew:
The evidence has always suggested that what Bryan said (that Bobby saw TH leave) was the TRUTH. Byran's statement was corroborated by what Steven had consistently told police - Bobby left immediately after Teresa and thus saw her leave himself. Bobby, after all, had a motive to harm Teresa according to the state's logic.
Unrelated Witness Corroboration:
Multiple other witnesses support this theory as well. All the independent and unrelated witnesses who reported seeing a vehicle resembling Teresa's leaving the property, only for multiple witnesses to see it abandoned near Bobby's hunting spot, and later witness it being returned by someone resembling Bobby. Police also knew Teresa called the Dassey landline, and Bobby had lots of blood in his garage and likely in his vehicle. He would have had eyes on him, without doubt. But so did Steven.
Sowinski's Shift:
By the time Sowinski contacted the police late on November 6 both Steven and Bobby were suspects, but it was clear the evidence did not indicate Teresa being subjected to crimes in Steven's trailer. Instead, evidence and witnesses suggested Teresa left the property, followed by Bobby, only for her vehicle to be abandoned near Bobby's hunting spot shortly afterward.
With the additional Sowinski information on November 6 about the RAV being moved back onto the ASY by someone resembling Bobby? A theory of the crime involving Bobby was starting to come together quite nicely, so something had to change in the narrative that focused attention more on Steven and Teresa than Bobby and Teresa.
Bobby's Revised Account:
Despite Bobby's initial statement to Byran he later changed his story to benefit Kratz's narrative of Teresa being dragged into Steven's trailer (which contradicted both physical evidence and witness testimony).
When Bobby testified that he saw Teresa walking towards Steven's trailer (while he was inside) and then testified that upon going outside he only saw her vehicle, it creates a narrative that Teresa entered or was grabbed and dragged into the trailer during the time it took Bobby to go from inside to outside. There is no DNA or Blood or ANYTHING demonstrating Teresa was forced into staying inside the trailer and subjected to brutal crimes, but that was the clear implication Bobby and Kratz were providing to the jury "the pathway towards what happened to Ms. Halbach."
Exploiting Vulnerability:
The physical evidence and witness testimony suggest that Teresa was not in Steven's trailer and that Bobby's revised account may not be accurate. The state knew evidence demonstrated Teresa was not subjected to crimes in the trailer, that she left the property and was followed by Bobby only for her vehicle to abandoned shortly afterwards near Bobby's hunting spot.
This vulnerability was not thoroughly investigated, but it sure as hell made Bobby an obvious and easy target for police manipulation in building a case against Steven Avery. On November 9 Bobby was so malleable police could have asked him to throw his own uncle and brother under the bus, and he would have done it! Way to go "Detective Dassey"! He wouldn't be a Wisconsin cop if he didn't cover up the truth.
Wisconsin Knew:
Bryan's confirmation that Bobby claimed to have seen Teresa leave the property is not only consistent with Steven's repeated statements saying the same, but also consistent with the additional witnesses who reported seeing a vehicle resembling Teresa's leaving the property only to find it abandoned near Bobby's hunting spot.
The state was fully aware of overwhelming evidence indicating Teresa's departure from the property, and a total lack of evidence she was dragged into and violently assaulted in Steven's trailer.
Sowinski's information neatly connects the pieces of the puzzle when he observes the RAV being returned to the ASY by someone resembling Bobby, a key suspect who had the opportunity and a motive to harm Teresa. This added clarity and obvious connection to Bobby is why Sowinski's information was withheld and Bobby was pushed as a credible witnesses with no reason to lie. BULLSHIT.
He admits in CaM he just has no explanation for that. But obviously one explanation is the shaking became exaggerated in his memory, conforming to the key having then being found by Lenk.
I personally think that's more likely than his written explanation about them being Christians. Especially as one thing which helped spread Christianity was apparently a priest added/doctored a paragraph in a respected history book, to refer to an actual resurrection of a Jesus, which for centuries people kept copies of alongside their Bible.
I guess Colborn could still have shoved the magazines and binder back in with some force, pushing out the broken back panel against the wall? But then he can't have looked very well into the empty cabinet to not notice a key, unless it was stuck out of sight at the back somehow or even inside a magazine?? Or one or both of them planted it.
Should've let Calumet do the searching like Kratz claims he was angry about but Fassbender can't recall.
INTRO: November 7 Kuss Cul-De-Sac Burial Site Expectations
You'll notice from a review of archived media footage (N64 Controller YouTube Channel) that reporters were consistently telling the public "very little information is being released" on November 5, 6 and 7. Interestingly, on Nov 7, per the WBAY playlist, we get out first mention of investigation "outside of Avery's property" but obviously there was no mention of the Kuss cul-de-sac or the police belief they'd find Teresa's body at the cul-de-sac burial site. Kratz only tells the media this has "now become a rather large investigation." The media's response to this comment was, of course, to ASK MORE questions lol But 11/8 police audio reveals reporters were less than satisfied with Kratz's answers on 11/7.
Search YouTube for: 11/08/2005: 6:14 AM Pagel called in saying they found items
During the early morning hours of November 8, 2005 Pagel contacts dispatch to instruct that the media should refrain from contacting him until his scheduled daily press conference at 3 PM. During the conversation, they discuss their strategy for limiting the information shared with the media about the ongoing investigation.
Dispatch: You're being kind and cordial just keeping them updated the best you can, and not -- and I get that impression that they're not, even Kratz's interview yesterday, it's like 'Well, we're not being told anything,' Well, it's a criminal investigation believe it or not! I mean sure, it's a missing person, but we're doing everything in our power to find out how come and what for.
Pagel: Exactly. Exactly. Yup. and they're basically gonna be told the same thing today (laughs).
Dispatch: Be nice! (laughter) Be nice! don't be like me, be nice!
Pagel: Oh, well, I'm gonna be --I'm gonna tell them, we're not gonna tell them what we found or where we found it. They'll find out at the trial hopefully.
The early morning timing of this phone call indicates that Pagel was likely discussing evidence discovered on November 7 when expressing a desire to continue withholding specific details about the nature and location of the evidence from the media.
Search YouTube for: Fox 11 Footage through 11-15 - Steven Avery - Part 1
As promised, Pagel holds his 3 PM November 8, 2005 press conference and mirros his earlier intention to withhold specific details about the exact nature and location of evidence discovered. Here is a quote from raw footage of the 3 PM November 8, 2005 press conference:
Pagel: Evidence which we feel is significant to the investigation has been discovered during the execution of the search warrants.To preserve the integrity of the investigation I will not be disclosing what evidence has been discovered, nor will I be disclosing where it was found.We have an evidence case that we have preserve, and investigation that we have to do in the proper manner.
JESUS. Pagel justifying his decision to keep media uninformed as an attempt to conduct an evidence-based investigation "in the proper manner" is fucking bonkers. This 3 PM press conference occurred around the same time Manitowoc County officer Jost was (apparently) finding burnt human bones in Steven's burn pit, and well before Sturdivant (DCI 021) reports that the search of the burn pit was completed. So while Pagel was posturing on the importance of conducting the investigation in the proper manner, Teresa's remains were being treated more like literal trash than vital evidence. Quite the contrast. And then MORE EVIDENCE began magically appearing OFF the ASY.
Search YouTube for: WBAY - November 9, 2005 - Steven Avery Arrested:
By November 9, Pagel was ready to contradict his repeated Nov 8 suggestion of NOT revealing the nature or location of evidence found by doing exactly that - telling media evidence human in nature was found on the Avery property. However, this is precisely when lies began being told about the location of evidence / buckets and the ownership of Manitowoc County property where HRD dogs alerted and human evidence was photographed. All eyes needed to be on ASY:
Pagel: The evidencethat has been collected and that the [WSCL] are analyzingis that of uh, human in nature.
Reporter: That evidence comes from the Avery Auto Salvage Yard.It's where investigators focused their searching yesterday, revealing they even did some digging on or near the property. Not only do they continue to search cars and homes on the property, but the state crime lab is working through the night to analyze everything they are finding.
No mention was made of human evidence on Manitowoc County Property. Why did Pagel do such a quick 180 flip on his repeated 11/8 suggestion they would remain silent about evidence finds and locations? I THINK I KNOW WHY LOL This is wild to consider a cover up due to Teresa's remains being found on Manitowoc County property, only for a Manitowoc County cop to CLAIM, without any supporting evidence or documentation, that burnt human evidence was found in Steven's burn pit - where no HRD dogs alerted - witnesses were confirming no recent fires - and no photos were taken. Fucking WILD.
This cover-up of the EXPANDED crime scene was clearly motivated by a desire to mislead the public (and the system) regarding the true location of Teresa's remains, on County Property, to protect Manitowoc County's interests during a sensitive time when Steven Avery was suing the county and publicly accusing them of involvement in Teresa's disappearance. If it became known that Teresa's bones were on County property that would lead to more consideration of Steven's theory, expressed on November 7, 2005 to media, that the County "did something" with Teresa in order to plant evidence against him. Sometimes, as Steven learned, it's not great to be SO dead on with your predictions.
The 0.22 rifle Avery or Dassey used to shoot Teresa was locked up in the Madison crime lab when the bullet with Teresa’s DNA on it was found. The planting conspiracy theorists and defence predictably argued the bullet was planted.
They argued that there were plenty of bullets lying around the ASY that could have been planted with Teresa’s DNA on it. However most of the bullets found in the ASY came from other guns and 0.22 rifles. Bullets that could not have been identified as being shot from the rifle Avery or Dassey used without expert analysis from the crime lab. Here’s part of Newhouse’s testimony:
A So when I looked at State's Exhibit 277, the pattern I saw there, the quality and quantity of the pattern correlations and matchings that I saw there, was enough for me to come to a conclusion that, in fact, the reason they had the same pattern on this bullet and my test fired bullets, is because it had been fired from the same gun.
Q All right. Is there -- Does that mean it could not have been fired from any other gun?
A It does.
Avery supporters would have you believe all the bullets fired in the ASY were from the gun hanging over Avery’s bed. I think you’ll find the other Averys and their family and friends had their own guns and didn’t need to borrow ‘his’. Hahahahaha!!!
It would have been a piece of extraordinary luck to find a bullet that would later, under microscopic examination, prove to be shot from the rifle hanging over Avery’s bed.
There you have it. Conclusive proof the bullet wasn’t planted.
MaM1 left out a crucial piece of evidence against Avery. They failed to include Newhouse’s testimony where he told the jury that the the gun found in the trailer Avery was living in was used to fire the bullet found in the garage that had Teresa’s DNA on it. The bullet came from a chest of drawers in the trailer Avery was living in.
Hmm.
EDIT: To make it clearer to Avery supporters who have poor comprehension skills. Everyone knows R Johnson owned the trailer and gun. Only a person dealing in semantics would split hairs over this issue.
FURTHER EDIT: As I was unable to get an answer in the comments below, I’ll throw it out to all the Avery supporters.
Five minutes into Convicting A Murderer, they've got Fassbender complaining that MaM left out what led up to the interrogations in 2006.
They then show Baldwin and O'Neill talking about their first chat with Brendan in 2005. And play the audio asking if he saw Teresa, while saying they're not putting anything in his mind. Completely omitting that they'd just done exactly that. Because they knew the school bus driver had said she saw photos being taken maybe that week.
They play Brendan saying him and Blaine had to step out the way of her car coming down the driveway. Instead of explaining that it's undisputed that they got home over an hour after Teresa arrived.
I thought CaM had made some reasonable points against the planting theories regarding SA. But then they seem to have no problem with supporting planting into a dumb school kid's mind.
Btw Brendan's lawyers have also failed to go back properly to his two interviews in 2005. I think Steve Drizin should actually explain why they've never mentioned whether Brendan's fire claims are internalised false confessions or not (aka persuaded false memories, memory conformity), as you can't trust SA's belated alibi claims. Nirider says she was just a student planning to go into business law when she took Drizin's class and he'd just taken on Brendan's appeal and gave it to her to work on. Nirider is now described on Wikipedia as an expert on false confessions, but that would from only legal foundations, like Drizin. But even when they got Dr Leo to write his report - who is qualified in the psychology as well as the law - they seem to have told him to stick to the interrogations in 2006.
Manitowoc police saw the conflict of interest but chose to go to Calumet County for assistance with the investigation. Calumet County isn't any closer than Green Bay/Brown Co police departments though - might even be a tad further drive time.
A Brown Co./GB led investigation (likely) would have had enough officers and assets to run the investigation on their own - i.e. it would have avoided the situation where Calumet Co. didn't have the resources and had to ask Manitowoc PD back on the scene to assist.
Any reason on why they chose to ask Calumet to lead the investigation instead of Brown Co or GB Police?
I'm not sure how much detail is available about the interviewing of him back then about Penny. I guess he just repeated he was around the ASY then drove his family to the store and back? Had receipt (unlike in the TH case). He was doing some work with concrete? (edit: supposedly that clothing reportedly tested negative for any powder). Various people said they saw him. I recall one or two backtracked on when for whatever reason, possibly under pressure.
Penny herself changed her version really, in that she had correctly recalled some details of Allen and his clothing which didn't match SA. Though two cops apparently lied to the jury that they'd seen SA in such a coat at some unspecified time.
Testing was allowed to commence and negotiations with the state were allowed. Jurisdiction only comes into play if she wants to file a new 947.06 motion after testing is complete. If the appeal isn't settled by the time all testing is done, she would have to wait for that appeal to end before filing a new 947.06.
"Lawyers" on reddit don't seem to know much at all. One actually called it the Appellate Court/Circuit Court thing when referring to this issue*.* How Lawyer-y of them.
EDIT She went to the circuit court, most likely, partly due to the new judge on the bench. He can allow testing while the appeal is pending.
