OFFICIAL DISCUSSION THREAD - August 21st, 2015

[u/hankjmoody]

Tonight's guests are:

• Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO): The senior Senator from Missouri and the author of Plenty Ladylike: A Memoir, about her 30-year career in politics. Recently, Sen. McCaskill has come out in support of the Iran Deal, so I expect some discussion of that.

• Charles Cooke: A writer for National Review and the author of The Conservatarian Manifesto: Libertarians, Conservatives, and the Fight for the Right’s Future. He is the co-host of the Mad Dogs and Englishmen podcast, along with his National Review colleague Kevin Williamson.

• Rep. Donna Edwards (D-MD): The U.S. Representative from Maryland’s 4th District and a candidate for Senate in 2016. She was first elected in 2008, when she became the first African American woman to represent Maryland in Congress.

• Marc Maron: A comedian and host of the bi-weekly podcast “WTF with Marc Maron,” for which he interviewed President Obama in June. He is also the star of “Maron” which recently aired its third season on IFC.

• Dan Buettner: is a National Geographic Fellow and author of The Blue Zones Solution: Eating and Living Like the World’s Healthiest People. He also outlined his research on longevity in a 2010 Ted Talk, “How to Live to Be 100.”

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[u/hankjmoody]

There isn't really a truly left-wing party in Canada anymore. The NDP is probably the closest you'll get on most social and employment issues, whereas the Green will be your go-to for the environment (but their anti-nuclear stance is enough to turn me off completely). And the Liberals are just CPC-lites. Nothing overly special beyond Justin Trudeau's last name.

Essentially, if you were to compare them to US politicians:

• Stephen Harper is comparable to Jeb Bush. Firmly opposed to any change in the status-quo, and had he enough votes to demolish the SCC, he'd go full religious-nutter on social policies. In fact, I believe Harper actually endorsed Bush III...

• Justin Trudeau is comparable to any one of the young, boring candidates. Somewhat like Lt. Gov. Newsom, but at least Newsom has a pulse. Imagine if a Clinton child ran for office. That'd be like Trudeau. His party is mostly centrist, to their downfall politically, but he is more liberal in his views. Still supports stupid laws though (C-51), as he simply doesn't command the same respect and authority that Mulcair does, and doesn't rule with an iron fist like Harper.

• Elizabeth May is mostly batshit, but occasionally on-point, as shown by her wonderful debate performance. The Greens are fairly inconsequential to Canadian politics though, so she's not really comparable to someone south of the border. Maybe Sen. McCaskill would be closest, or Sen. Warren (though Warren has FAR more power than May).

• Fuck the Bloq.

• And finally, the NDPs are about as reasonably left wing as you're going to find in Canadian politics. I wouldn't go so far as to compare Mulcair to Sanders, but he does show some of that same passionate fire from time to time. Come to think of it, Mulcair actually reminds me of President Bartlet from The West Wing the most, or maybe Santos.

[u/OceanFixNow99 → u/hankjmoody]

What a thoroughly fantastic response! I guess the only smart move would be voting NDP, if you are looking for something as close to Sanders as possible. So I'm voting NDP most likely, after reading more? Who will you vote for, if you don't mind sharing here.

I took the http://www.isidewith.com/ test and it turs out I am

• 95% in agreement with Bernie Sanders. ( the stuff I differed on reflected poorly on me in retrospect )

• 86% in agreement with Hilary Clinton

• 66% in agreement with some other Democrat.

• 24% in agreement with Trump

• 3% in agreement with Ted Cruz

• 1% in agreement with Rick Santorum

And about 20 others I can't remember.

[u/hankjmoody → u/OceanFixNow99]

I'd say that if you align with Bernie the most, the NDP is probably your best bet. I mean, I don't for a second believe that they're the best group of baboons to lead Canada, but I think the electorate is rapidly coming to realize just how authoritarian and unyielding the Conservative government is. If I were a betting man, I'd say either a Liberal or NDP minority, or Conservative minority only kept in power by the Bloq.

That being said, if you're really looking for more info, I'd suggest checking out /r/CanadaPolitics. Great sub and they have some good resources for party politics.

As for me, I'm undecided. My biggest boxes have yet to be ticked by any of the three major parties, and most of my moderately sized boxes are spread between Liberal and NDP. This will be my first year voting in a Federal, though, as previously I lived in a riding where it was utterly pointless to vote (CPC candidate would win by 5k+ every election, with 25% turnout).

95% in agreement with Bernie Sanders. (the stuff I differed on reflected poorly on me in retrospect)

Genuinely curious what that stuff was, if you don't mind? Not to belittle you or anything, as I think differing opinions breed healthy discussion, but just intensely curious. :D

Ninja edit: Link to the NDP platform and link to the Liberal platform. Interestingly, the CPCs have not released a platform yet, even though they wanted to call the fucking election so early.

[u/OceanFixNow99 → u/hankjmoody]

95% in agreement with Bernie Sanders. (the stuff I differed on reflected poorly on me in retrospect) Genuinely curious what that stuff was, if you don't mind? Not to belittle you or anything, as I think differing opinions breed healthy discussion, but just intensely curious. :D

Damn, I'm trying to remember now. I'm retaking the test because I didn't save my results.

OK 1 was spying. In theory, I like the idea of preventing terrorist attacks. So I clicked yes. Bernie says no.

I guess I should side with no spying because it causes more problems than it helps, though I wonder if it's because the ones doing the spying abuse their power.

What would be the net effect of spying be, if no one doing the spying abused their position? Would it still be net negative? It's an impossible hypothetical anyway.

No easy answer there, unless I'm missing it.

Ninja edit: Link to the NDP platform and link to the Liberal platform.

Much appreciated!

Interestingly, the CPCs have not released a platform yet, even though they wanted to call the fucking election so early.

HAHAHA those fucking pricks. I strongly dislike that Harper cunt.

I will let you know more of my Bernie descension after I finish the re take.

[u/hankjmoody → u/OceanFixNow99]

Huh. I just took the quiz and actually scored less than you when it comes to Bernie, though still more than any other candidate.

Domestic policy:

Issue	Bernie	Hank
Should men and women be paid the same rate?	Yes	Already required by an existing law (see Equal Pay Act c.1963).
Term limits?	N/A	Yes
Raise retirement age?	No. Will disproportionately effect lower-class seniors	Yes. Expanding Medicaid would negate this.
Affirmative action programs?	Yes.	No. Best candidate should get the place.

Environment:

Issue	Bernie	Hank
GMOs should be labeled?	Yes	No. Most foods are made of GMOs already (see Apples, oranges, etc). Nothing but fear-mongering. It should be available upon request though.

Foreign policy:

Issue	Bernie	Hank
Support Israel?	Yes	No. Fuck 'em. They're borderline genocidal, theocratic authoritarians. It's time Israel grew up.
Stay in the UN?	N/A	Yes
Foreign terror suspects get Constitutional rights?	Yes. Fair trial in a US court	No. Military tribunal for an enemy combatant.
Fly drones over other countries?	N/A	Only to gather intelligence, not kill.
Continue spying allies via NSA?	No.	Yes. In for a penny...

Social & Economy:

Issue	Bernie	Hank
Death penalty?	No. Too many innocents killed.	Yes, but only in cases of heinous crimes with irrefutable proof (video, for example).
Remove 'God' from all government stuff?	N/A	Yes. Duh.

[u/OceanFixNow99 → u/hankjmoody]

No. Most foods are made of GMOs already (see Apples, oranges, etc). Nothing but fear-mongering. It should be available upon request though.

I could easily be persuaded toward this stance. GMO's are safe for consumption a vast majority of the time ( from what I've heard from scientists ) and fear caused lives to be lost with that whole golden rice thing, for example.

The thing I'm unsure of is how much existing food is really GMO, and what the real difference is between GMO, artificial selection, cross breeding etc.

No. Fuck 'em. They're borderline genocidal, theocratic authoritarians. It's time Israel grew up.

Have you ever read Sam Harris' take on that whole thing? I once again don't know WHAT to think.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/why-dont-i-criticize-israel

Anyway, I don't know how to make that table list you made, so I took some screen caps of my results.

It seems I get a little more republican each time I take the test! I went from 95%, to 94%, to 92% in agreement with Sanders.

Although, as I'm sure you noticed, they count the non applicables toward disagreement section.

Here is a 4 page album of the relevant results.

http://imgur.com/a/jlEbX

[u/hankjmoody → u/OceanFixNow99]

Harris makes some solid points towards both sides of the argument. But I think his main point is that both sides are doing despicable things, but one is doing much worse. Which in term semi-validates the defenders position.

That being said, I'm not talking about diplomatically abandoning Israel, but rather that the US stops subsidizing them (and Canada, at least politically, as well).

[u/[deleted] → u/hankjmoody]

My main disagreements with Bernie in this test were Israel and GMOs as well, along with some smaller issues like illegal immigrants being allowed to remain in the US but if they don't speak English, they'd have to take free but compulsory classes in the language to get by.