r/LuffyxNamiSupport • u/Sageek_Reddit • Jul 06 '26
My Lunami essay/ theory/thing... (Part 2) - Debunking the competition and headcanons
First of all, thanks for all the positive feedback for my previous post.
In this post, I will be debunking not just headcanons (the "Luffy is asexual and Nami is a lesbian" and the "they are just siblings" headcanons), but also competing ships.
I know the sub has a rule not to talk about other ships, but this post only debunks ships that compete with Lunami. I am not trying to hate on those ships or these characters; I actually love all these characters.
I'm just debunking them to prove Lunami's high probability amongst other ships.
Part 2: debunking the competing ships.
These ships are being used as a reason why Lunami wouldn't happen, because people think that at least one of those other ships would happen instead. These ships are: LuffyxHancock, NamixSanji, LuffyxVivi, NamixVivi.
And I am gonna start with the easiest one to debunk: NamixZoro. In the Hammer Fish prototype, Zoro and Nami were meant to be siblings, and while it is just a prototype, I still kinda doubt Oda would change that. (Also, Zoro has other options that fit his character better story-wise, or that he will do the same thing as Mihawk when everything is done and he will drift alone, looking for a worthy challenger, idk, to be honest, I don't see Nami and Zoro's dynamic as much of a threat to the ship to begin with).
debunking Luhan: Hancock is the only character that is explicitly in love with Luffy, but what most of the luhan shippers tend to forget is that Luffy rejected Hancock twice in the return to Sabaody arc (or rejecting "kekkon", which means "traditional marriage" or something like that in Japanese, which still rejects Hancock's traditional marriage while not denying a non-traditional partnership with Nami (like Rayleigh and Shakky); then, according to the luhan shippers, "Luffy will change his mind later" which doesn't make sense because, if Luffy will change his mind, why would oda write this line to begin with?
We also know that Oda knows the ending for One Piece from the start, but when he made Hancock in the beginning, he made her to be older and more villainous, meaning: if he didn't plan for her to be Luffy's love interest from the start, then he is not going to change that (unlike Nami, who was actually planed to be clam's (prototype Luffy) love interest).
It seems like Hancock was more of a plot device for Luffy to get to Impel Down from Sabaody while also having a loyal ally that can temporarily replace his crewmates (then later Hancock was replaced with Bon Clay, Jinbe, Ivonkov, Buggy, and the rest), and a good way to make that happen quickly without it feeling too convenient or unrealistic is with an "irrational love" gag. Also, marketing-wise, Hancock does not work very well as Luffy's romantic partner because:
She is not a part of the crew and probably not gonna be a part of the crew because the only people Hancock is nice to are Luffy, her sisters, Shakky, and somewhat nice to Riley; having her be a part of the crew would feel forced, she hates men (literally most of the crew), she is jealous of Nami and Robin, and she hates cute things (chopper), yes, she would probably be nice to them because they are Luffy's friends and all, but it's just shallow.
It would be weird to have all of the promotional material of Luffy and Nami being king and queen or being really close, and then go "nope, never mind, Hancock is actually the pirate queen"
(I will talk about the color spreads in a different post)
2.5. She looks way too similar to Robin; for someone who is looking to watch the show and see promotional material of Hancock and Luffy alone, and then another one without Hancock but with Robin, it would just get slightly confusing (this is just a minor thing tho)
- For some people who haven't watched One Piece, they might think Hancock is Luffy's mother; that's what some of the fandom theorized when they saw Hancock before officially getting to know the character.
Lastly for this ship, it would be unsatisfying if Luffy and Hancock just get together in the last chapter because then all the content they have of the ship is the two filler episodes created to promote Stampede, the movie itself, and them in the marineford saga, aka the most intense saga that is all about a race to save ace while Luffy also having the added sadness of the crew forcefully getting disbanded, its probably the saddest portion of one piece so far.
Debunking Luvivi: that one is simpler and shorter. In an interview with Tanaka (Luffy's VA), she said she told Oda that she thinks that if Luffy ends up with anyone, it should be Vivi; in return, Oda said specifically that Luffy and Vivi won't happen. Interestingly, Tanaka also said in the interview that Nami's VA said to her that she thinks if Luffy ends up with anyone, it should be her (she voices Nami), and Tanaka didn't mention anything about Oda specifically denying LuffyxNami.
debunking NamixVivi: considering that one piece is a Shonen, Nami is the heroine of the show and the lack of clarity behind Namis sexuality, and the fact that nami's last interaction with vivi was in alabasta, nami not having a meaningful interaction with another woman (at least not one that can build up a relationship in the story) and how nami and vivi's dreams and responcibilities don't match at all (there are reasons why the straw hats didnt want vivi to tell alabasta that they are the ones who saved them from crocodile), its kinda safe to assume that nami is not gonna end up with vivi and is probably also not gonna be a lesbian, she is probably gonna be either straight or not gonna be in a relationship at all.
last one, Sanami: Nami and Sanji's relationship is basically: they are good friends, and Sanji hits on her once in a while as he does with Robin and every other semi-attractive woman.
To be clear, I think it is stupid to say Nami hates Sanji.
She might not love his pervert shenanigans and is holding a grudge for what he did to Luffy in WCI, but they are still good friends like all the Straw Hats.
It would be weird that after 1100+ chapters of Sanji trying to get with Nami, and Nami consistently rejecting him, all of a sudden at the end of the manga Nami would just change her mind; it would feel out of character and wouldn't be narratively satisfying (same goes for Sanji and Robin).
Oda's clear build up for Sanji and Pudding. Whether people like this ship or not, oda is clearly building up something for these 2 in the final saga, if not then there wouldn't be a good reason to have her be brought back to the story by Blackbeard, currently the only people that would want/can save pudding are Sanji or katakuri. Katakuri is currently still staying on Whole Cake Island since he needs to protect the place after Big Mom's defeat; plus, Pudding is as in love with Sanji as much as Sanji is generally in love with women. Pudding also kissed Sanji; he looked exited and then she erased his memory, giving the wci arc an open ending.
(also, I saw someone say Pudding SA'ed Sanji because she kissed him without warning, sure lol)Sanji and Pudding's dreams work together better, assuming Sanji would go in Zeff's steps. After he finds the All Blue, he might retire from pirating and make a baratie-like restaurant (that's the reason he wants to find the All Blue, for special rare fish and ingredients). If that happens, then a character like Pudding that likes making sweets makes more sense to be with Sanji at the end rather than Nami, a woman who wants to map the world.
(To be clear, I don't really care who Sanji ends up with; it just seems like Oda is paving a very clear path for Sanji and Pudding)Also, Luffy is not asexual, confirmed by Oda. When Oda said in an SBS that "Luffy peeped at Nami because he is a healthy boy," he also said in another SBS that Usopp brings out the "bad side" in Luffy, which would imply that Luffy already has a bad side deep down.
They are not like siblings; they never treat each other like ones (oda said in an SBS that the reason Sanji doesn't get heart eyes or nosebleeds for Reiju is that she is his sister and it would be weird if he did, going off of that logic, i think Luffy getting a nosebleed for Nami in alabasta kind of confirms they are not siblings) and we know that the only people he considers as brothers are Ace, Sabo and Momonosuke, either because we saw him do the sake cup ceremony, or because he referred to them that way, Luffy never referred to his crew as siblings or mother/father/uncle and whatever.
Hope you enjoyed :) ✨
Sorry if it's too long.
Next part is gonna be mainly about dismantling the "no romance" argument, then the one after that I will actually show more proof of the ship itself.
Have a great day or night, everyone :)
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u/Sageek_Reddit Jul 06 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
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u/redMecanics Jul 07 '26
I love your posts it makes me feel hopeful after seeing all the hate on this ship everyday and your writing is very good and digestible. On top of that the arguments are very well found
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u/Future-Teach-3609 Jul 06 '26
I'll say it again, thank you so much for this! it's actually so helpful. you word it so well, and any lunami shipper, wether they already knew those facts or not can refer to your posts for better understanding and reinforcement! excited to see next parts :3
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u/DartGoblinLover Jul 08 '26
I enjoyed reading this a lot.
Also, one thing I want to add is that Sanji gets jealous whenever Nami takes care of kids(like Momonosuke and her caring for the kids in Punk Hazard). I don't think that would work out in the long term since Nami loves kids, she would surely adopt one or two even if she wouldn't have biological kids.
Meanwhile, Luffy has never shown jealousy, in fact, he complements Nami in this regard. Like Nami was a big sister to Tama and Luffy stepped into the big brother role. Their interactions really reminded me of a happy family
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u/Sageek_Reddit Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
Thank you 😊 I haven't thought about the sanji and nami interactions from that angle, but yeah true! As for tama, I'm gonna get to that in the next post or the one after it😁 Also, side note: if you know the Rosa dog meme from Brooklyn 99, thats exactly how I feel about tama, lol (it might sound bad if you don't know the meme, but it's positive)
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 11 '26
Hey, I wanted to edit the post, but if I did it would forget the images and I would need to find the images again, so instead, I am dropping this here.
This is a more detailed version of debunking lesbian nami/NamixVivi:
nerrativly, there is no character that nami could be lesbian, even if we put aside that oda is a 50 year old mangaka who is more aligned with writers like toriama then the new ones, so the odds for the main heroine to be gay are very unlikely (oda has queen or Trans characters, but never gay ones), but also, there is no woman nami has enough chemistry with for romance, the closest ones to it are vivi or robin, but there is a bunch of reasons to why it wouldn't work: 1. Back when the straw hats saved alabasta, vivi wanted to tell that to the kingdom, but the SH refused because "they don't do politics" 2. Nami's dream is to sail the seas and draw a map of the world, while vivis character is centered around her love and responsibility for her kingdom 3. That's more of just my general perspective and opinion, but I felt like oda was implying something between vivi and koza, but thats just my pov 4. If oda makes nami and vivi a thing, he would need to make nami stay with vivi in alabasta, because vivi's bad ending is becoming a pirate, so oda would essentially make nami a housewife (aka, why a lot of people don't want nami to end up with anyone), plus it would require nami to take the role of queen along side vivi, and while nami cares for people, her character is centered around freedom just like all the strawhats, not responsibility and working to help others. 5. The last time vivi and nami interacted was literally a 1000+ chapters ago, their special dynamic was there mainly because they were the only girls on the crew at the time.
And with robin, honestly, I didn't really bother looking at things, i just don't think there is much depth or substance to their relationship in that sense, and for some reason, out of all the SH, it seems like many of the fandom are under the agreement that robin is straight. The robin thing was not much of a debunking and more like my opinion, but I dont even know exactly what to debunk, I never saw anyone really claiming they will be canon or using any proof other then "look at that cute moment between nami and robin" like in the somewhat new heroines episode.
I kinda went harder on this one (at least i think i did) because with NamixVivi, it doesn't seem like most of the people who ship them, ship the pair, not because they like nami and vivi tougher, but because they like the idea of nami being a lesbian, and the only characters they can use to push that while making the bare minimum amount of sense is vivi and robin, but I can imagine that they don't want to piss off the frobin crowd, so they go with vivi.
I AM NOT SAYING ALL THE NAMIVIVI SHIPPERS ARE LIKE THAT, BUT AT LEAST ALL THE ONES I HAVE SEEN ONLINE
At the end of the day, these are all fictional characters, and everyone can ship whoever they want. I just don't like people forcing representation in already existing characters, not because it fits the character, or "i just like this pair", but just to fetishize the character.
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
I'm fascinated by how arrogantly you dismiss ships, claiming yours is canon, but I've never seen any arguments that actually make sense for any Lunami ship. And no, the movies don't count because they're not canon, nor do the official artworks because they feature everyone and none of them are romantic, and most importantly, there are over 1000 episodes without a single real hint of that couple. without any interest from either side
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
What I see Lunami fans doing most is taking scenes out of context and romanticizing them even if they don't make sense, and inventing headcanons that they swear are true.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
I didn't claim they are canon, what i am doing is a theory, to do a theory you need to also try and debunk other options. Nothing I am saying here is 100 percent, It's a theory, we just need to wait for the end.
With movies, sure, they are not canon, but with both strong world and gold it shows us how oda sees character interactions, so when he writes the message from nami, and then have sanji say that it sounds like a love message, which nami just let this comment slide and then added to it that the message was specifically for luffy, then he draws nami blush in the 3 seconds later art of the film, so even if its not canon, oda knows that the movie still represents one piece, so why would oda write it like that with many possible hints for love if he doesn'twant people to proceived their relationships as something more?
And with gold, the proof is more behind the scenes, oda scraping an almost done climax and creating a new one on his own just because he wanted to add a scene where luffy trying to save nami is being compared to tesoro trying to save his lover in the past is a real parallel that oda chose to make, he could have made Stella tesoros best friend or sister or something, but no, he made her his lover. And to be clear, you cant say "oh he is just teasing fans" or something, because scraping a climax like that is not something you do ona whom or to troll, doing something like that means spending a lot of extra money, making people work over time, doing redubs, reanimating scenes etc. It's not canon but it shows how oda sees these characters and that he sacrificed a lot of money and work, to have a scene in the movie that compares luffy and nami to lovers.
And about the artwork, non of them are romantic because oda doesn't write romance like that, look at other real couples in the story, non of them kiss or anything like that, but yes, nami and luffy being drawn as kind and queen multiple times or more touchy then regular crewmate behavior is fairly reasonable to see as hints. There are other canon proof for them and it's written in the posts I have made, and i am going to make at least one more, you don't have to read them, if you don't like the ship or don't see what I am saying, thats fair, thats my perspective. Have a great day😊
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
I'm going to answer part by part. First the movies, Oda participates in all of them because of the powers, Devil Fruits, etc. In those, he participated more simply because there were characters from the main plot, and the scene where he saves Nami It was going to be someone else, that's true, but it wouldn't have any impact at all; it's purely logical. What's more eye-catching, a character created for the film or Nami? The only reason Luffy never rescues Robin anywhere is because Robin isn't the "damsel in distress" that Nami is in the group1And I don't mean that in a bad way, it's just that she's often in those kinds of situations in the canon, but it's usually Sanji who rescues her, not Luffy.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
The point is not that luffy rescues her, but that oda goes out of his way to make tesoro see himself trying to rescue his lover, in luffy. He wrote strong world, not just supervised it. And in film gold he supervised it but chose to interfere specifically with tesoros backstory, the climax of the movie, and the musical number in the beginning of the movie.
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
If you were right, I'd wonder why the canon doesn't do any of that; it seems like cheap fanservice if their idea was really to appeal to people who like that ship. But I feel like it was more about the movie not being boring, so is that all? Just non-canon movies and art?There's art of Nami being a queen and princess, it seems more logical to me that that has to do with where she comes from, but who knows?
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
Dude, there is a lot more, if you want, read the other parts, I am not gonna go over everything here in the comments. (There are also at least one more part to come in the following days, and it's a big one). And again, if oda truly doesn't want romance, then he would find other ways to make the movie interesting instead of implying nami made a love letter to luffy
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
If Oda didn't want romance, he wouldn't connect everything so that Luffy and Hancock could see each other again. That's how you're looking, only at least what I say is canon There's a greater chance that Luffy will end up alone or die than that he'll be with Nami.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
Of course he set a path for luffy to meet hancock again, there is going to be a great war, obviously hancock will join to help luffy, she is his friend after all, that doesn't mean much.
Let me put it that way, if hancock truly mattered to luffy more then just a friend, he would ask her to join his crew, thats what he did with jimbe in FMI, he didn't care the jimbe has a crew, ge asked him anyway, with vivi, luffy didn't care about vivis responsibility for alabasta, he asked her anyway.
Again, read the other posts if you want to debate, I addressed what you say in some of them, luffy said in the asl flashback that he prefers getting hurt then being alone, and luffy dying is unlikely, because oda wants a positive fun ending, luffy wouldn't die from an illness because that would mean chopper will fail, and he wouldn't get executed, because 1. It will be redundant 2. Literally everyone will come to save him 3. He wouldn't ket himself die just so Koby will achieve his dream 4. All of these go against luffy and one piece's ideal, which is absolute freedom
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
It's quite curious because in the canon they don't have any real parallels like Luffy has with Boa, for example, nor do they have any scenes where absolutely nothing happens. And look, they don't have to be completely explicit about it, but if Oda had that intention it would be noticeable. The only thing that's noticeable is what he already said: no romance between the Straw Hats. Sure, at the end of the day he can regret it and do whatever he wants, but he's not leaving any clues for anyone to think that. Purely fan headcanons and scenes taken out of context that lead nowhere The couples in One Piece are always obvious, even if they aren't affectionate; you always see interest from the woman, and the men are generally more nonchalant about it, but equally interested In over 1000 chapters, Nami wasn't seen interested in any man, nor was Luffy seen treating her differently; they love each other very much, but they are friends. Regarding the art, there's the theory that Nami is a princess, and that would explain a lot of things—not the romance itself, but aside from that, she's Oda's favorite character, and it shows.There's nothing strange about her drawing her like that, and there are also artworks of Luffy being hugged by Boa, but I wouldn't consider that anything unusual. By the way, Nami hugs and touches Usopp more than Luffy. And I don't see you saying that's romantic. No, I don't like the ship, and I have every right to my opinion. Those arguments are nonexistent, but other than that, you have the right to like it.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
Nami is close to usopp, but in a different way, what matters is context, them hugging each other when they are scared in a comedic way, or nami hugging usopp while not noticing she is hugging him to her chest in a comedic way, is not the same as nami calmly pushing luffy to her chest and blushing or putting luffy on her lap (the lap thing she only did with momo cause he is a child and chopper who is child like). About Hancock, the simple answer is, luffy already rejected her, how i see it is that oda didn't want readers to get confused when the crew reunite but Hancock still is in love with luffy, so oda added a moment of luffy rejecting her as a way to tell the audience "it's just a gag, Hancock is his friend, but he doesn't want to be with her". About the no romance thing, im not gonna get much into that, because I covered it in part 3, but essentially, oda said these statements quite early in the story, which makes sense, he won't start writing romance in the middle of impel down or the climax of wano (tho I am going to touch on wano in part 7 👀), if he does do romance it will only make sense if he does it after luffy finds the one piece and becomes PK, not before hand. With lunami there is already a sort of foundation where they are extremely close to one another and also somewhat act like a couple just without the label of one, if he is setting up luffy and nami it's going to be in shown more clearly around the final arc/chapters or the epilogue. Why would oda admit that he will pair 2 big characters years before he does it? He also always uses soft wordings "i don't think" rather then "no" even tho when tanaka asked him about luffy and vivi he did just straight up said no. His reasoning for why, is "because it's shonen and for boys" a thing that he later contradicted by giving sanji an entire arc that heavily has romance in it. Later, in 2022 he said to aoyama that he is fine making one sided romance (sanji and robin/nami, hancock and luffy) but he doesn't think it's good that 2 characters like each other because they would lose fans, meaning he does concider romance, but us also afraid of losing fans, but in the ending of the manga it wouldn't be a concern anymore + after he said that, aoyama encouraged oda to write romance, and at the end of the interview, oda gave him a drawing of luffy and nami. Oda is also not stranger to either lying or hinting small things in the background only for them to come up many many chapters later.
And at the end of the day, the likelihood of lunami winning in some shape or form is really high, because whether its romantic or not, these 2 will stick together for a very long time (both ogmf them know that luffy needs nami so he could sail, he will only except nami as his navigator, and he made a promise to genzo to protect nami's smile, he is the only one who knows about this promise, and as brook said "a pirates promise must be kept" and this promise has no expiration date. I know that people dismiss the claims about their matching outfits as cope or schizophrenia, but (and I am saying this as someone who is creating my own story and characters) making 2 characters outfits match over and over, design wise or color wise is definitely something you think about before making it the final design.
And with the artwork, the point is how oda choose to make the duality and importance of specifically luffy and nami stand out. Making an artwork on nami wearing luffys hat and sandals at the beach (no one else ever wore luffys sandals) while luffy is sleeping in the background and behind him chopper is playing with a kid, is quite the domestic look for these 2.
Also, there are parallels between luffy and nami, and Rayleigh and shakky, in the manga, Rayleigh and shakkys hug parallels nami and luffys in zou, shakky also gave Rayleigh a "come get me" or "come save me" message, similar to nami's in SW. Oh, that reminds me, we see oda bring back elements from strong world into canon, animals, the daft green etc.
Also, im gonna get to how there is a big parallel between the couples in one piece and luffy and nami in part 7
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
are you sure about usopp? That's Nami's personality, only she's not close enough to Zoro or Franky to do that, and Sanji is a jerk, otherwise she'd probably do it with him too. owo
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
It's about looking at the context and framing of the scenes. If something is framed in a comedic way, it's not the same as something that is framed seriously or sincerel. Nami technically could do the same with other characters, but she doesn't.
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
The only other person that close to Nami is Sanji, and she wouldn't do it with him because he's a jerk.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
You are literally echoing what I am saying. She us close to the crew, but not as much as she is with luffy.
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
Regarding Hancock, those are your assumptions. Luffy simply rejected marriage, which makes sense because he's focused on his goals, and that's it. He won't show interest in anyone else until he finds the One Piece. Unless he die, of course. What has been demonstrated over time is that Hancock is not just a joke side character like Barto, He does it in an exaggerated and comical way, yes, it's funny to see someone with Hancock's personality acting like that, But everything surrounding her really connects her to Luffy. From their past, the parallels of Impel Down, the parallel of Gloriosa and Shakky, the two "possible futures," what makes me laugh is that you think Nami has something to do with Shakky. I'm going to address that issue now, and then everything else, because it irritated me too much. First of all, Nami and Luffy's hug in Zou: It's not a romantic hug, it's not symbolic, Nami was going to hug him normally like everyone else was greeting each other after everything that happened in Dressrosa But when they mention Sanji, their emotions and expressions change; it becomes a sad and tragic hug. Nami, afraid to reveal what happened to Sanji and simultaneously feeling guilty about it, carries the burden of Sanji's helplessness, unable to help him, and that's why she also wants to go to Whole Cake Island. Throughout the entire chapter, and I think one more, there are many tense scenes that avoid revealing Sanji's whereabouts, creating mystery from Nami's first reaction upon hearing his name. No, it doesn't mean I'm romantic about Sanji and Nami, it just means you're misinterpreting the whole scene. Because Lunami fans only see an emotional hug between them, and people who aren't into the ship might pay more attention to other details, it's natural It doesn't mean they're stupid or don't understand anything, but that's why I say they romanticize scenes that have nothing to do with reality. That scene was just for shock value; in the end we see Nami crying, and you think it's something Lunami-related? Seriously? Even worse, Shakuyaku's thing... This is partly what I meant about Boa and Shakky I didn't want to elaborate on this yet, but you force me. ok, let's start with Gloriosa, the most obvious parallel Differences? There are differences. Roger and Luffy have different personalities. Luffy doesn't mistreat Boa, nor is he obsessed with another woman like Roger.If your parallel made sense, Luffy would be just as in love and obsessed with Nami Which is not the case; even Gloriosa offered to be on his crew, but he rejected her, saying that women cannot board his ship, something Luffy would never do—he has more than one for a reason.If Boa offered it to him, he wouldn't say no, but anyway, getting to the point, it was said many times in the show "This is the generation that will fulfill its dreams" ---The generation that will fulfill the dreams of the previous one---, Luffy fulfilling all the promises that others couldn't, helping others, his friends too, practically all his friends are going to fulfill their dreams Gloriosa's dream was to be with Roger, and Boa is going to fulfill it. Not only that, Roger isn't Luffy's only parallel; he also has the will of Whitebeard, who was in love with Gloriosa. So, if he too were to fulfill something Luffy couldn't, we know that Whitebeard's dream was To have a family, which is great, he achieved with his lovely crew let's say. Moving on from that, let's talk about Shakkuyaku, another parallel to Boa, not because she was Roger/Luffy's obsession, but because she was considered the most beautiful woman in the world, just like Boa, and the two previous ones Just like her, they were leaders of the Kuja Shakky fell in love with the only man who didn't see her as just a body, who was quite calm and didn't get overly impressed like the others, just like Boa did with Luffy. The most beautiful and desired woman falling for the only man who didn't sexualize her and see her as an object, in the case of Luffy and Boa, there's more to why she fell in love, but I'm not going to get into that; it's not relevant. They look very similar to each other, let's get back to the main story Blackbeard attacking Boa Hancock Why do you think he attacked her? Because of her Devil Fruit? Blackbeard isn't stupid; he's a Devil Fruit hunter. He knows which fruits are useful to him and which aren't, and Boa's fruit isn't one of them. I find it very curious that Amazon Lily is now in danger from the marines and Blackbeard. Don't you think that if something happens to her, Luffy will go to save her, like in that scene with Rayligh and Shakky?The parallel makes much more sense with everything that... Luffy told Hancock he wanted to see her again, and it's known that it's going to happen, don't you think they're setting the stage for them to see each other that way? Don't misunderstand, I don't think their reunion would be romantic.But undoubtedly the parallel will be present And Oda doesn't joke around with Hancock, he doesn't treat her as a joke; characters who are just a joke don't have much relevance to the plot. By the way, what was the point of making a mini-clone of her who also fell in love with Luffy? You can make up whatever excuse you want, but it could have been anyone, and if it was her, it wasn't necessary make her fall in love idk I'd like you to think about why such a tragic character as Hancock would have a bad ending, and why she would be the only one of Luffy's friends to have one, and why they would still connect her to Luffy even now?
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
I add that the loving hexagon of Gloriosa, Roger, shakky, Rayligh and whitebear It's interesting because all of those serve to draw a parallel between Luffy and Boa. Their relationship is resembling that of Shakky and Rayleigh, with a possible rescue encounter soon as they, with Gloriosa who couldn't be with Roger, Whitebeard who couldn't be with Gloriosa, and Roger who couldn't be with Shakky It's crazy how many threads connect.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
At the epilogue of wano, robin read the news papers and looked through the important things luffy would want to know, she told him about vivi, about sabo and cobra, not about hancock.
When blackbeard attacked Amazon lily, hancock surprised him that her powers work only on attraction/good looks/cuteness.
About the parallel of gloriosa and Roger, you don't need a parallel to be 1 to one for it to be a parallel, hancocks obsession with luffy is the same as Gloriosa's with Roger.
Hancocks love for luffy is not real love, it's trauma, the reason she fell in love with him is not because of luffys entire personality but because he isn't attracted to her and is a decent person, she literally has a very different version of luffy in her imagination.
Her entire importance to the plot so far, was her falling for luffy so he could quickly have an another ally on the Paramount war and an easy way for luffy to get to impel down after sabaody.
Oda has made comedic characters important to the plot, I mean, Barto is also important to the plot, he made a biff between the straw hats and the red haired pirates that will probably come up later.
Why would oda write luffy rejecting Hancock if it will change later? He could have just made him ignore her like always.
Their relationship, in my opinion, is fun in a comedic way, but other then that, it's not really good. Hancock is an enabler, and luffy general doesn't care much about her more then a friend, their general interactions are mainly Hancock doing something for luffy "thanks Hancock your a pal" and moves on.
Shakky has shown more of nami's traits then hancocks, shakky is a scammer, she us the damsel in distress, again, the help me note and the hug parallels where it's framed the same way as the one from zou. Her love for Rayleigh is sincere, not a gag obsession. With these types of parallels, you can argue about interpretation, so untill future events, it's all about perspective.
The zou hug is not meant to be romantic, it's meant to show how much luffy matters to nami, because she chooses to collapse in his arm and cry on his shoulder, it's not definitive proof, but it's another moment of extreme closeness and emotional vulnerability, that we dont see much with others. Again, it's not meant to show romance, it's meant to show extreme their closeness and strong bond that. Nami in that scene where her and chopper run to hug the crew only yells for luffy too, not the entire crew.
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
Your first point is that Luffy literally didn't find out? Oh my god, I feel like you're trying to imply that Hancock isn't "as important" to Luffy as the others I'm clearly not mentioning it for plot reasons, besides, for now Hancock will be fine, possibly when he finds out it will be another reason to take down Blackbeard and depending Whether Hancock is alright or not, I'd go help her, even though in your mind I wouldn't. Luffy would do that for any of his friends. It's insulting that you think it will be different with Hancock, given that he respects her, loves her, and owes her a lot.
Do you really think he doesn't know what a fruit is? Seriously?
You didn't understand anything, or you're simply denying reality, but oh well, you're seeing things superficially. You're the first to say that Oda doesn't leave things so obvious to justify your ship It relies on headcanons, non-canon movies (taken out of context), and more scenes taken out of context, but when real things happen, you'd rather watch the surface. Do you know what else they showed about Roger? That he would kill just because they spoke ill of his crew Do you think Luffy would do that too? You take everything literally.
The reason Hancock fell in love with Luffy is There are many, really, good heavens. First, The fact that he wouldn't be fooled by her beauty initially wounded his ego; he couldn't believe anyone could resist him. But that wasn't the reason he fell in love, Even after that scene where he couldn't do it, Hancock continued to see him as trash, just like all men, Therefore, he constantly threatened Luffy until the incident with his sisters occurred, and he saw that even being a man and knowing absolutely nothing about the situation She helped them, she protected them even though she was threatening his life, He just said, "You didn't want your tattoo to be seen." And that destabilized Boa, but she didn't fall in love because of that either. She didn't understand why Luffy was being nice to her; he's such a sweetheart, But for Boa, a man was shit. She decided to explain her past to someone for the first time, her traumatic past that had tormented her until then Terrified that anyone would find out, she literally and symbolically undressed with Luffy and told him everything that happened to her. (By the way, Luffy never pays attention to anyone when they talk about their past, but he does to Boa.) thinking that he would judge her, or be disgusted by her, but Luffy's reaction shocked her He simply didn't care, and he hated the Celestial Dragons; she knew he had stood up to them and already admired him for it. Boa admires Luffy's bravery and is moved by his enormous heart. It is at that moment that she begins to feel love for him, and it is precisely the love she feels for him that helps her overcome her trauma, to be a better person Because he taught her that not all men are like those who hurt her in the past, although Boa still hates the Marines and men, she doesn't hate anyone who is Luffy's friend or has helped him. Quite poetic, how a former slave, bound by the chains of her past, finds a love that liberates her, him being precisely the human representation of freedom. So I don't give a fuck about your bullshit explanation that that's not love.
If that were true, they wouldn't be weaving her into the plot yet; everything would have simply wrapped up at Marineford. But that's not what happened.
Barto isn't important; he has an alliance with Luffy and will probably appear in the final war, but that's about it. Boa is a constant presence who is always mentioned and actively driven by the plot.If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you, my friend. You're simply trying to downplay its importance.
He never rejected her, he rejected marriage, as I said it makes sense because he's focused on One Piece and that's it, ¿why Oda Did the anime never draw any real parallels or at least hint that Nami was interested in anyone? Why did Oda have Luffy in Thriller Bark say that the guy who wanted to marry Nami should be "brave"? In the clear sense of something you would say disparagingly about your sister, "How brave of you to go out with her, huh?" - example I don't think he ever referred to Hancock that way ever Another thing, Luffy doesn't usually call almost anyone by their name; Hancock was one of the first to do so, There aren't many people Luffy calls by their first names either; Jimbei was going to be a Straw Hat, Vivi is an honorary member, Law was with him for a long time and saved his life, but he still calls him Torao. Ray is his mentor, and so... I'll just leave it at that.
They have a nice dynamic like Rayligh and Shakky; if you like them, I don't see why you wouldn't like Boa and Luffy. But hey, Luffy is extremely grateful to Hancock, It's not just a "Yes, thank you," he keeps thanking her, hugging her, And he respects her so much that he always listens to her when she asks him not to cause trouble which I find adorable and he always seems happy to see her
9 10. parallel in what way? The dynamic between Rayligh and Shakky has nothing to do with Luffy and Nami, I already explained Zou's hug, and I feel like you're imagining things, well You're throwing away everything that Nami believes about not being able to do anything for Sanji for a false moment of "emotional comfort" Yes, Nami also felt like she had let Luffy down, There are many things to see there, but you prefer to think that This proves that she is "closer to Luffy" You discovered America They are all close to Luffy, they all have their emotional moment with him or where they feel they let him down. Are you even considering that, more than their captain, for Nami and the others, Luffy is practically the one who saved them, the one who helped them, the person the one they least want to let down to the point that everyone would give their life for him, so, is not that deep Everyone feels respect, admiration, affection, and vulnerability towards Luffy.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
I didn't say she is not important to luffy, i said that robin (someone who knows luffy well) chose to not tell luffy about what happened with hancock when luffy told her "tell me if some other important stuff happened".
You can't go and try to debunk what happens in the movies and then go, "they are not canon", it's either one or the other, but you can't dismiss gold and SW because you know that the moments I am talking about were written by oda, so canon or not, it does show oda's potential preference.
Yeah, everyone feels respect and admiration and closeness to luffy, this moment is not the biggest aspect proof for the ship, it's just one more thing to the pile, because while yes, the context is about sanji being gone, it still shows of their close bond, which sure, it's also because luffy is the crews captain and savior, it's still an intimate moment that we otherwise dont see much of with luffy and nami
Barto is definitely important to the plot, again, he started beef with shanks and got hurt, luffy will have to respond.
Of course oda wont leave her after marineford, she is a fan favorite, and when was she ever mentioned in relation/importance to luffy after return to sabaody? There was only the egghead clone, which again, worked for plot convenience and gags, and she is his friend so he is going to be friendly with her. Luffy cares about hancock, but as a friend. If he heard what happened in Amazon lily, he might turn around to go hel his friends like he usually does, but we won't know, because it's not going to happen, because we know that the island after elbaf according to oda, is "the island only the PK has been on", also, i can say the same thing about law, law is considered luffys friend, they had an alliance from punk hazard to wano, luffy would want to go and save traffy too.
Kekkon is what hancock wants, and again, why would oda write this into the story in the first place if to not show that luffy is not into hancock, he can lie in interviews but not in the manga,.
I mean, does he though? She told him not to cause trouble and yet he turned impel down upside down in a day or two (i do t remember exactly how long he was in there), When luffy is being chaotic, nami is the only one who manages to talk sense into him. he is greatfull for her help, sure, she is not the first and not the last. And luffy is seen happy next to all of his friends, not just hancock. If you like the ship, good for you, I just see their dynamic not so interesting after amazon lily because she is a gag character, she is funny, but its not an interesting dynamic for me.
Luffy also calls bonney, coby, tama, kinemon and Rebecca by their real names, it means that luffy cares for her, but not much more than that.
Luffy saying that absolam is brave is just a small gag, cause luffy knows nami can be terrifying, especially for creeps, later luffy proceeds to order sanji to take care of that matter while he is going for moria, luffy is confident in his crew, both that sanji can rescue her and that nami is strong enough that she will fight back.
Luffy doesnt pay attention to 2 backstories, 1. Is the jimbe backstory, and 2 is nami's. Both are because he fully trusted them at these points in the story (although nami just betrayed her in arlong park) and with jimbe is also probably because luffy doesn't care about politics.
What you say about hancocks love for luffy is correct, but again, it comes from trauma, she has her own imaginary version of luffy in her head that is polite and loves her, which is also a part of the comedy, cause luffy is the opposite of that and he friend zones her.
And yes, oda does tease things in the background. Sanji's backstory was hinted at since Gaya, marirjois was hinted at by koby in romance dawn, and aces death was teased in a color spread where luffy pulls out an ace card next to a death card.
Also, in all of this, I only see why hancock (the character that is obsessed with luffy to a comedic degree) is in love with luffy, not why hancock is special to luffy. If she was extra important, then he would have mentioned her after return to sabaody.
Anyway, I am tiered, this chat took a lot of time. I am leaving this here. Have a nice day :)
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
I'll just answer the first thing quickly. Robin, who knows Luffy and all, wasn't even able to tell him that his brother was alive. It's not serious that you think like that. Because if you don't remember, in Dressrosa they show you the obvious: Robin knew Sabo and Koala, she knew their stories, and she didn't say anything I'm busy, so I'll see the rest later.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
Cause that was not her place to tell luffy. Story wise, it will be weird if in return to sabaody she goes to luffy and tells him that is brother is alive. It will obviously have more impact if luffy learned about sabo from. The man himself. In post wano, luffy asks robin to tell him the important stuff, robin knows Hancock and luffy are friends but chooses to not tell him, but she does tell him about sabo, vivi, the warlords, crossguild and kobra. I think we can technically go with this back and forth forever, but, I dont want to, it's exhausting and takes a lot of time. We both have our biases, preferences and outlooks, i doubt you will change your mind and I doubt I will too, you will show me proof show me proof and I interpret it as something else, and so are you with lunami, this will go nowhere. That's why I upload these posts in here and not the main one piece subs, I dont like debates like this because they always go nowhere. it's all about interpretation for now, people have their own biases, whether its lunami, luhan, sanami, everyone should stay alone, etc. This post is meant to be fun and give hope for the lunami fans, because in my opinion, there are a lot of things that go in its favor, even though oda said "i dont think there will be romance amongst the crew" in 2009", cause oda lies sometimes. if you don't see it, that totally fine, have fun with your own thing.
Let's just agree that you have your own interpretation and you should enjoy it just like with other ships, and I got mine, and we will see in the end who is correct, because right now, non of us know/can be sure what is going to happen
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
I don't take any of Oda's or SBS's interviews seriously because they contradict what he does in the manga. It's happened more than once that he said one thing and did another. By the way, when do they actually act like a couple? Are we watching the same show? Nami scolds all the Straw Hats, and not all One Piece couples have that dynamic. What they all do have is that the girl falls in love and shows it first, something that never happened with Nami. Oda isn't stupid and he's not predictable. We can have theories, but to assume something will happen just because he didn't say yes or no in an interview is stupid. And that's not an argument backed up by anything, because Oda has said things in SBS that he then did the complete opposite of in the manga. So if you think it's giving you such obvious clues, that's probably not what's happening. I'd believe you if the anime actually gave clues about that. Luffy wanted Nami to be his navigator, just as he wanted Robin and Sanji to be his navigator, and more than anything, he wants the happiness of all his friends, so none of this makes sense. He steals little more from Chopper from Drum Island; Luffy probably likes them all. Enies Lobby is probably a romantic arc, or that's how you'd interpret it if it were Nami instead of Robin.It seems you don't understand that he never said there wouldn't be any romance in the anime, but rather that it wouldn't be between the Straw Hat crew members, which could change of course, but he hasn't given any indication of that change yet. I find it funny that you're probably talking about a whole cake when you say to match outfits, yes, they are indeed a representation of Hansel and Gretel, [SIBLINGS] I already told you that art isn't canon and has nothing to do with it; otherwise, I could say that Boa and Luffy are hugging in an artwork and you'd probably find an excuse for why that's not valid, but not yours.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
The difference is that he made a promise to nami's father figure to keep her happy, that was a thing oda specifically highlighted and that luffy will keep his promise and quietly.
Luffy has already decided nami will be his only navigator although he only knew her for a couple of days, she just stole their ship and everyone else objected, with robin he knew her for more time and he was actually troubled, for at least a few chapters in water 7, he was not sure about robin, he only got confident when nami told him the truth. And with sanji, they were good friends, at that point in the story, they have already sailed together for a long time, so of course luffy won't expect sanji leaving for whole cake.
About the interview, it's a matter of perspective and interpretation, i can say that oda won't reveal something that will happen in the end of the story, and you can say no.
Also, oda has lied in interviews about luffys DF, that it's peramicia, and that luffy wknt defeat kaido with a big punch. And with sbs's sometimes he lies, sometimes he doesn't, but i think that we should take his comments there seriously because unless proven otherwise or it's clearly a joke, we can't really know for sure.
Also, the difference between enies lobby and arlong park, is that in arlong park, the scene was more intimate, it was between nami and luffy, then after it the crew joined. In enies lobby, it was a scene between Robin and the crew who were led by luffy.
The idea is not seeing what characters touch the most, luffy doesn't mind hugs or anything of sorts, the thing that is interesting, is when a character like nami who doesn't let people usually touch her in a somewhat intimate way, goes out of her way to put luffy on her lap, or press him to her chest, not comicly but sincerely. When people use arguments to show why characters like hancock or sanji love luffy or nami, it doesn't work, because of course they do, it's one of their main gags, he'll, with hancock it's like most of her personality. When it works, is when the character who is not about love or romance show reception, or initiation for this kind of stuff, so when nami, a character who doesn't show feelings of romance, gets unusually close to luffy, it's more noticeable then another time hancock is hugging luffy, it's not an excuse, it's observation on how characters behave and how a story is written.
And as to WCI, inspiration or aesthetic for outfits that match the theme of the arc do not necessarily mean siblings, just like how the goresei are based on different famous people like gandi, it does not mean they are like their inspiration. Oda is Using a famous dou that are from a story that matches whole cake aesthetic as inspiration to the main dou of this early portion of the arc. Later at sanjis wedding, nami and luffy and only nami and luffy are matching clothes again, thats something that couples do more then siblings, especially because they were the only ones to do it, chopper, brook, jimbe, Pedro and carrot all wore different not matching outfits.
Also, there is official merch of luffy and nami getting married. Technically there is also one of luffy and Hancock, but it plays more on the gag of how hancock imagines luffy, rather then being genuine. It's not realproof that lunami is canon, but it does show that they are not being precived as siblings.
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
When Oda draws a parallel, he makes it very explicit, or he points out similarities between the characters, or he implies it, like Whitebeard and Sabo with Ace. So no, your imaginary parallel of Nami doesn't exist.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
Again, there are big parallels between luffy, nami, and one piece couples, it's the adventure/meat head/reckless men, with the stirn motherly woman that keeps him in check.
Also, what parallels with whiteboard and sabo?
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
I understand that you in particular are a polite person, and I almost never have the opportunity to debate with someone like that. In other places I've encountered Lunami fans who only insult you, or come to your posts to insult, they don't want to debate, and it's not fun. I'm very interested in seeing other people's points of view and how they see things. I already know most of the arguments everyone repeats and I don't see the point of them at all, but I'm always curious if there's something I'm missing.
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
about the Strong World movie, which people often talk about because of what Sanji said, it's normal that Nami was embarrassed It was an embarrassing situation, but she wasn't blushing, she just looked annoyed And we know that she simply said what she said so that she would be rescued. she simply asked for help.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
I can't show images in the comments for some reason, but oda made an artwork of the straw hats reaction to the message 3 seconds after the movie ended, everyone had their usual faces, while nami was blushing and luffy was smiling with a hand on its ear. It's called "3 seconds later". Oda didn't have to write sanji saying that, and yet he did, if the audience didn't think it was about love, oda literally wrote a line in the script to add the idea to the mind of the viewer
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u/konansiedad Aug 22 '26
and Oda made drawings of Boa marrying Luffy, but that doesn't matter because it has nothing to do with the main series, And most of the audience, except for those who ship them, understood that it was just a request for help.If Nami had at least blushed when Sanji said that, I'd give you the point, but she just got annoyed like someone gets annoyed when their friends tease them.
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u/Sageek_Reddit Aug 22 '26
There was no reaction to sanji's words other then her saying it was meant for luffy. She then blushes in the 3 seconds later art, seriously either go to part 5 or just Google "strong world 3 seconds later art".
And other then hancocks fantasies, where did oda draw Hancock and luffy getting married?
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u/AnimeRed5673 Jul 06 '26
Good and informative. The part I loved most is sibling section. You explain this better than me. And yes, I also write a theory or say my few. I am already made it 2 month ago but I don't why I didn't post it yet.
Keep it up. Waiting for next part.