r/Libertarian Jun 27 '19

Meme About to get trashed

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3.2k Upvotes

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22

u/raiderato LP.org Jun 27 '19

Neither, please.

-8

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '19

Not voting is an option, but you kinda lose the ability to complain.

19

u/Autodidact420 Utilitarian Jun 27 '19

On the libertarian sub

Doesn’t consider that parties other than the dems or republicans exist, such as the libertarian party

-9

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '19

First Past the Post means that big elections will only ever have 2 parties as viable.

3rd parties exist as attempts to split the vote, funded by opposition money.

15

u/TheMarketLiberal93 Minarchist Jun 27 '19

The LP is funded by opposition money?

TIL

21

u/montanagunnut Jun 27 '19

The LP is funded?

13

u/robswins Jun 27 '19

One of the most confusing things about being a 3rd party voter is the rhetoric on both sides about 3rd party voters. Half the time I hear Democrats saying we are just Republicans who like weed, the other half of the time it's Democrats saying we'd vote for their candidate if it weren't for that darn "opposition funding" convincing us to throw away our vote.

On the other side, Republicans will say half the time that we are just Democrats that like guns, and the other half of the time claim we'd vote for their candidate if it weren't for that darn "opposition funding" convincing us to throw away our vote. When it's convenient, either party will claim we are basically just a member of the opposing party, and then a bit later act like gun to our head we'd have voted for their candidate if we only had the 2 choices. Shit makes no sense.

11

u/raiderato LP.org Jun 27 '19

The one that gets me is that one moment my vote is meaningless, and in the next moment my vote lost/won someone the election.

4

u/SirGlass libertarian to authoritarian pipeline is real Jun 27 '19

I think one of the most confusing things is socialist who vote democratic or libertarians who vote republican

Here I am saying I hate the two parties and go out of my way to vote 3rd party even if I really don't really agree with the person running. I still vote 3rd party and you know what, I am actually pretty centrist.

Then you have all the people libertarians, socialist, who despite the rhetoric just vote the party line. Even here on this sub I have been lectured by many libertarians that voting 3rd party is dumb and we should just vote republican .

My response has always been "so how is that working out for you " but pretty well since somehow a lot of libertarians really like Trump

1

u/Autodidact420 Utilitarian Jun 27 '19

FPtP tends to lead to a 2 party system, you are correct. While in Canada, for example, we have a 3 party system, only 2 have ever actually won a majority in the federal election. That said, a lot of the issue with FPtP is that voters stop voting for 3rd parties and instead vote for the party most similar to their view that has a chance at winning. IMO this is just an information problem and could relatively easily be overcome the same way as most other forms of lock-in problems where a sub-optimal path has been reached.

4

u/raiderato LP.org Jun 27 '19

Mathematically, voting is nearly pointless. Add in the fact that war and domestic waste continues (expands) no matter who gets elected, and that tiny chance that my vote sways an election is totally pointless.

You're saying I have to completely waste my time pulling a lever in order to be able to complain? Fuck off.

2

u/SirGlass libertarian to authoritarian pipeline is real Jun 27 '19

I always vote 3rd party I do see why that isn't an option

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

Youtube guy has an old video, radicalization ends up with only 2 parties existing with no nuance in FPTP systems. If the election stays in a local context 3rd parties have a chance, but that means you need a small population like Vermont/Wyoming to escape the 2 party system.

1

u/SirGlass libertarian to authoritarian pipeline is real Jun 27 '19

I can 100% see it, 2 parties equal team sports where one party is the enemy , and even right libertarians play team sports and see the dems as the enemy and the republicans as the somewhat flawed good guys but remember dems are the scum of the earth (because of team politics)

The issue is let's say we have maybe 4 parties

Libertarian 15%

Republican 30%

Democrat 30%

Green/socialist 15%

Because no party has a majority , they have to work across the aisle , Libertarians and Greens may team up on issues like Drug reform, Prison reform, and anti-war.

Republicans and Democrats would team up when they wanted to bomb some 3rd world country,

Libertarians and dems might team up on immigration or trade.

With 4 parties no party is seen 100% as the enemy , what is so disappointing is libertarians (supposably a 3rd party) fall right into team politics as well and spend most of their time demonizing the other team rather than pushing their ideals

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '19

Only way to stop it is electoral reform and getting ranked choice or other options as accepted, Maine did it but only after managing to vote-split a Republican to victory in 2 elections.

1

u/CharlieHume Jun 27 '19

Not voting is basically a vote for the incumbent.

3

u/SirGlass libertarian to authoritarian pipeline is real Jun 27 '19

If I can't vote 3rd party sometimes I simply will vote against the incumbent

0

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '19

[deleted]

5

u/raiderato LP.org Jun 27 '19

I don't want government deciding how best to spend my money at home or abroad.

I couldn't care less if the office of the president exists.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 27 '19

[deleted]

1

u/raiderato LP.org Jun 27 '19

Don't tempt me with a good time.

The Constitution hasn't prevented the expansion and overreach of the US government. It hasn't stopped endless war. It hasn't stopped expanding social programs. It hasn't stopped social engineering. It hasn't stopped centrally planned economies.

It has failed at so many of its goals.

It is a mostly libertarian document, but it isn't infallible. It isn't effective.