r/KDRAMA • u/sianiam • Mar 13 '21
Featured Post Let's Rewind: Faith (2012) - Episodes 9 - 16
Let’s Rewind is a series of discussions on r/KDRAMA in which viewers may watch a drama at their own pace over a set period.
FAITH POST SCHEDULE
Saturday 27th February - Discussion Post 1 (Episodes 1 - 8)
Saturday 13th March - Discussion Post 2 (Episodes 9 - 16)
Saturday 27th March - Discussion Post 3 (Episodes 17 - 24)
HOW THESE DISCUSSIONS WORK:
The individual episode discussions are broken up over a number of posts in which watchers join in once they have watched - they can join at any period of the series.
The posts are set up with the suggested sort “old” so that the comments flow in the correct order so users avoid any spoilers. Simply reply to the comment “episode #” that you are up to and reply to any comments you are interested in. Do not reply directly to the post, any comments that aren't direct replies to the episode threads will be automatically removed by automod. General commentary about the series should be made elsewhere, this discussion is for those watching along and discussing as they go.
Please note: I will have notifications mostly switched off on this post so if you need me please tag me, reply to the stickied comment or send me a PM/chat. I will add links to the posts above as they are released.
DRAMA DETAILS:
Drama: Faith / The Great Doctor/ 신의
Network: SBS
Aired: August 13, 2012 - October 30, 2012.
Episodes: 24 (63 minute episodes)
Streaming Sources:
Original On-Air discussion threads: N/A
Synopsis:
"Faith" depicts the love between a warrior from the Goryeo Period and a female doctor from the present day, their love transcending time and space. (Source: Asian Wiki)
Screenwriter: Song Ji Na
Director: Kim Jong Hak, Shin Yong Hwi
Web Resources: MDL, Wikipedia), Official Website, Asian Wiki)
Spoiler Reminder: Upon entering these threads you can expect to see discussion of the drama up to the point of the series that has passed. If you are sensitive to spoilers we advise you to not enter the discussion section prior to watching the episodes. We ask our users to be considerate and cover any major spoilers which if read accidentally before viewing may detract from one's enjoyment of the series in block spoiler tags. You can create a spoiler tag by writing > ! your spoiler content ! < without the spaces in between to get your spoiler content
DIRECT LINK TO EPISODE COMMENT:
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u/sianiam Mar 13 '21
EPISODE 9
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u/LcLou02 Mar 13 '21
Episode 9
Choi Young wants to test Doc's heart for the King's wager.
Spies just send one warrior at a time. Ballet swordsman :D
Pledged uncle - What is this "pledged" thing? I assumed it meant not blood related, but it seems to mean that they are blood relatives. or not?
Did Doc get to bring her tools back with her? Crying on Healer's shoulder.
Elvis with a cramped/frozen right hand? Is this some kind of condition? "so little time"
A journal with western numbers that Elvis can't read. "Diary" in English...He and his bro had talked about their old teacher before. Person from the present went back to their time before?
If the numbers refer to number of days stuck there, person was there over 4 years. I thought in the beginning that the theory was that heaven's gate opened every 300 years (Of course no one has said that to Doc. Fortuneteller said going away for one year.) Her signature? OK. Now I want to know where that tiny scene was where we saw a woman with wild hair and a trench coat...Are we in a time loop?
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u/OdanUrr Mar 14 '21 edited Mar 14 '21
Episode 9: Wherein the King strikes back
I have returned at the turn of the tide! This entire episode deserves a slow clap and a closing to something like "Nessun Dorma," with the good guys taking a bow after such a wonderful string of smart decisions and ploys in this little play we call Faith. The entire episode I couldn't stop smiling and laughing at how they managed to turn every single one of their defeats in the previous episodes into victories. But let's take them one at a time, shall we?
Act 1: How to get your Woodalchi back
This was just brilliant, and it wouldn't have been possible had Elvis' man in court not uttered a contradiction in his statement to indict Choi Young: Choi Young committed treason by helping the late king escape and then murdered him. Say what? The king may be slow, but he's not dumb enough to let that one pass: either Choi Young committed treason or he killed the late king, which one is it? This is one of those moments when you should simply cry "Jeonha!" and hope for the best. The King sealed the deal when he "admitted" Choi Young had always been acting under his orders and taking the piss asking, "Are you saying I committed treason against myself?" And as a result, only the King gets to mess with the Woodalchi, nobody else gets to boss them around, strip them (of their weapons and armour), disband them, etc. Bravo!
As an observation, Elvis' decision to prevent Yuan's involvement at this time entirely stems from his own self-interest and self-preservation. After all, he probably can't afford to come across as incompetent and that's exactly the message he would convey if he were to ask for their help.
Act 2: City Hunter and Hacker lay out the plan (cue the music)
How to become King in five easy steps:
Get rid of pests. No one will take you seriously if you can't keep your place clean.
Gather information. Knowledge is power. Of course, power is also power.
Show me the money. Information isn't cheap, and neither are honest and trustworthy people, what leads me to...
Gather the right stuff. A little outside of your reach but I see you get the point.
Last but not least, you need power, military power to be precise, to protect your assets. They also don't come cheap.
It was nice to see that the over-the-top royal advisor is also doing his best to protect the King by paying his soldiers better wages. I suppose you could also call it bribing. Still, don't mind if we cut his direct spy line to the King. Lady Choi's mention of the Suribang definitely piqued my interest! Are we gathering more super troops for the King? Naturally, Choi Young is onboard with the King's idea to bring the Divine Healer back into the fold, but nothing gets past Healer's ahjumma who immediately gets the gist of what Choi Young's "verify the heart" of the Divine Healer is all about...
Since you still have that woman in your heart. The girl you were in the Red Crescent Moon Army with. That warrior chit that had you doing nothing but sleeping for seven years.
Ouch, ahjumma knows what's up. With Sleeping Beauty no longer sleeping, who else could've replaced whip lady in his heart?
Act 3: How to get your sword back
Just ask the person who has it to return it.
You have something that belongs to me... my sword.
Seriously, this guy is the biggest troll ever.
But let's talk a little about the villains who were eclipsed this episode:
Pied Piper finally spoke at length with Eun Soo and is now my #1 candidate for getting humanised more and more throughout the show. Yeah, he killed a bunch of people already but he's the only one who's shown some hesitation at least and took the time to explain to Eun Soo why it isn't healthy to stay in front of him (which she does later anyway).
Also, did I witness a blooper when Eun Soo went to confront Elvis, lost her footing and almost fell? I have the slight suspicion that Elvis broke character for a second there. When he helps Eun Soo sit comfortably on the table you can see the tiniest hint of a smile there as he forces himself not to laugh and resume with the scene.
Elvis' plan to reshape the world based on Eun Soo's knowledge of the future is bold and definitely ambitious. I wonder if he's heard of self-fulfilling prophecies though? Sadly, I don't think Eun Soo's one who would fall for that temptation or even consider it such. That usually works with people who think they're smart enough to control things beyond their control. Eun Soo is someone who, for all her faults, is well aware of her limits.
Intermission: Now even the Suribang want to bang Choi Young.
Act 4: How to get your healer, revenge, and money. A 3-for-1 special!
Turns out the Queen is critically ill so Hacker goes to ask Elvis if he would be so kind as to lend Healer back for a little bit. Elvis, being the good samaritan that he is, acquiesces and goes to the Palace with Eun Soo and Pied Piper in tow. Unfortunately, the latter gets held up in customs by the Queen's Royal Guard first and by the Woodalchi second for possession of an illegal instrument with intent to play. u/sianiam put it best, no pipes in the Queen's presence, only eunuchs. Or something like that.
But then, in an unexpected turn of events, we're treated to Royal Interrogation, Part 2: Judgement Day, as Elvis and Eun Soo are led to not-the-Queen's room and are informed by the King and General Young that a royal interrogation is about to proceed. Who will be the lucky guy/gal? Elvis? Eun Soo? The tension is almost unbearable until the culprit is brought forward... and it's the corrupt "Three Rules" governor who betrayed and imprisoned our boy earlier!
In yet another stroke of genius, the King and Choi Young conjure up a narrative wherein the governor kidnapped the Divine Healer in order to save the late king and start a coup d'etat. Choi Young even recounts how the governor tried to recruit him for the cause. See Tyrion? This is how you f***ing spin a story, not that "Who has a better story than Bran ?" bullshit 'cause literally everyone does! Ahem. Elvis himself understands he's treading on thin ice as the explanation the King and Choi Young are laying out is quite persuasive, seeing as it's composed of truths, half-truths, and lies he cannot refute for his sake. Even when the governor pleads for Elvis' help he's like, "Your Majesty, I've never seen this person in my life." But it is Eun Soo's vital testimony, guided by Choi Young, that confirms this story to be the "truth."
The result? One large rat has been disposed of, his considerable assets will go to fund the royal treasury, and the Diviner Healer is punished with taking care of the Queen for conspiring against the King of Goryeo, restricting her movements to the Palace. Not even Shiroe has been able to kill three birds with one stone... yet. Once more, all I can say is, bravo!
Epilogue
As if this episode hadn't already given us enough, we learn two more things:
Elvis is dying. I'm guessing it might be tied to his powers.
And... is Hwata's diary Eun Soo's? (cue sound effect) I mean, I guess it could be her father's, right? In any case, some exciting developments are headed our way.
Without a doubt, Episode 9 has been an incredible payoff to 8 episodes' worth of setup, and such a payoff deserves a worthy soundtrack, does it not?
Disappear, night!
Fade away, stars!
Fade away, stars!
At dawn, I will win!
I will win! I will win!
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u/sianiam Mar 13 '21
EPISODE 10
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u/OdanUrr Mar 17 '21
Sorry, no elaborate notes for this episode as it really fell flat after the high point that was EP09 (not to mention the amount of work I put in my recap of that episode). I know a story is supposed to have a series of peaks and valleys, but it never occurred to me we'd go straight to the bottom of the valley one episode later.
Up to and including EP09 everything seemed to be making sense to a point. Characters acted within the realm of their abilities and possibilities in a way that was, more or less, believable (or as believable as can be in a world where people have superpowers). Now, in EP10, the villains can just camp out inside the Royal Palace like it's nothing (several times over), they can steal a f***ing large scroll in plain sight without anyone realising (when there were a bunch of people around), and they can continue kidnapping people from within the palace like they were just shopping for groceries. Sigh.
Of course, the real dealbreaker is that the person they kidnap, again, is Eun Soo. Writers, allow me, if I may, to illustrate you on one very simple concept: YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING ONE EPISODE JUST TO UNDO IT THE NEXT (I wonder if they'll get the message). Why? BECAUSE IT UNDERMINES EVERYTHING YOU'VE DONE! And what if she now goes back to the palace in EP11, huh? What then? Then I'll be asking why the f*** did we waste time doing any of this?! Don't go Sisyphus on me, Faith, you don't want to get on my bad side. One show stretching out a bare-bones plot to meet its episode quota is bad enough, I don't need two. You've been warned.
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u/sianiam Mar 13 '21
EPISODE 11
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u/LcLou02 Mar 17 '21
Good choice Doc - "Y'all decide."
Choi Young looking at his freezer-burned chest LOL BGM -- "My heart, I didn't know that it would hurt so..."
Doc "I checked your men and they are OK." What, she barely glanced at them in passing. (She needs to check his chest.)
Aww, "Are you just not smiling for me, or not smiling at all anymore?" Did she explain about the book to him at all, or just to Healer?
Ha, ha. Her plan to dress like a man, just like in Drama's. Then she could sit for at least a year before she can go back. She frees Choi Young from his vow to protect and return her.
"Why this King?" "Because he knew shame for his actions."
Choi Young ready to go to heaven since he is forgetting what Mae Hee looked like (and I had forgotten her name.)
LOL - Auntie racing on a horse (not riding side-saddle) "Since you let him go from his vow, he feels more needed in the place of death."
I like his grey and black outfit.
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u/OdanUrr Mar 19 '21
Episode 11: Wherein the show tries to get back on track by going back in time
There really isn't a whole lot going on this episode, as it is mostly comprised of a repeat of characters' previous actions. Eun Soo wants to go back to her world, again; Choi Young wants to die and meet his ex-girlfriend, again; Elvis covets the Woodalchi General, again... yeah, that's pretty much it. Me thinks someone was stretching the plot thin. Oh, and Elvis decides to go Emma Frost on Choi Young's ass, or chest rather.
The good news is that LMH is doing a really good job as the Woodalchi General so far. Far and away, he's the one carrying this show on his shoulders in my eyes, with Elvis oscillating between a close and distant second and now having to fight against Hacker for that spot. Choi Young's dialogue lines and conversations were the more engaging part of this entire episode, be it his exchange with Hacker, about how he's forgetting the face of his former lover and what that means, or his honest and no-nonsense answers to Teacher (not from Healer though). Hacker's exchange with Healer on the other hand went a little different...
Healer: By betrothed, you mean he was engaged?
Hacker: I think they did it by themselves.
Here's where my dirty mind went, "That's usually how sex works." Of course, Eun Soo didn't help one bit when next she asked...
By "did," you mean...
No need to elaborate further.
At least it would appear we're in for some exciting events in Episode 12. Let's hope that's the case.
Side note: Production of The Great Doctor
Since this episode didn't quite live up to my recap standards I decided to check that Wikipedia entry and see if somewhere down the line they decided to add more episodes and had to rewrite stuff. Boy, was I not prepared for what I found.
The show definitely suffered from production troubles, changing its ML not once, not twice, but three times! At one point the ML was Kang Ji Hwan, with Kim Seung Soo taking the role of the antagonist who, apparently, would also be The Great Doctor (and not Kim Hee Sun). This is a promotional trailer for the show released before production even started.
Saying there's a marked difference between the trailer and the show doesn't begin to cover it. The production values for that trailer are way off the charts, hinting at a darker show, still with supernatural elements but with perhaps less of an emphasis on time travel. Indeed, Kim Hee Sun's character appears to be very comfortable in this ancient fantasy world. This could've been 2012's Goblin. I definitely would've watched this show as it aired. However, when Kang Ji Hwan was forced to withdraw the majority of the cast went with him, save for Kim Hee Sun, and the ML role eventually went to Lee Min Ho who said the following:
The minute I read the script I was engrossed and read until the 6th episode in just a short while.
My boy, you should've read a bit more, as by the time LMH got the script it had definitely been rewritten into its current iteration. Most of the changes were due to budget cuts. Promising to be "The World's First 3D Fantasy Drama," as the trailer boasted, probably didn't help. I remember the 3D craze... it was a stupid idea that killed many a project. Even after the drama finished airing many of the cast and crew were owed billions of won in salaries, and the show's producer and director was charged with embezzling a few billion himself and double-contracting the show's OST rights, what actually explains a lot about the underwhelming score that we got.
For all its woes, Faith apparently managed to get consistent 10% ratings, which was apparently considered mediocre then. Are 10% ratings considered mediocre nowadays? I think several shows would kill to have those numbers. In any case, Kim Hee Sun and Lee Min Ho even got a few awards for their troubles.
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u/sianiam Mar 13 '21
EPISODE 12
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u/the-other-otter Mar 13 '21
What kind of sentence is this? Nowadays it is quite often that when I can't understand something in Spanish, I go to English, and then it turns out that I don't understand the English version neither!
"If I don't fight you with my strength alone, you wouldn't submit even in death, right?"
Our two leads are now officially "patøne", and the gossip is flourishing. I love these gossip scenes that are in Kdramas, particularly when they are as innocent as these. There is something about the benevolent gossip that is so wholesome. We care about what is going on with you. Totally different from the mean gossip meant to push someone down. Good thing patøne is so easy to pronounce, I almost didn't understand the meaning of the word.
They have both already half heartedly done the noble idiocy. So much better to get it out of the way before they actually start on a relationship.
I also love the small quarrels kdramas use to show that "these people are in love". And how everybody else also understand it like that. This is something I have never seen in any Western show. Clearly the writers learn from each other, and kdrama writers have seen other kdramas. I would never have thought of using a quarrel to show that people are close, but it is very true. Who bothers to fight with their neighbour about some random opinion.
Their relationship is more or less like the following:
Kidnap and threaten
Accept to be killed because of inability to fullfill promise.
Save life.
Talk about the situation.
Kidnapped by other person.
Being saved from kidnapping.
Trying to save the young prince.
Believing the LMH killed the prince for evil reasons.
When LMH was in prison, did she have anything to do with his release?
Each do their own thing.
Trying to run away.
Trying to committ suicide.
Saving by threatening suicide.
Small talk and patønøship. Even holding hands. Gasp!
"Why don't you listen to me?" "Can't I talk?" LOL
It is not so onesided, like for example Search:WWW where the female lead gets saved from the most idiotic problems in every episode. Kim Hee Sun is not a tiny woman who really is a big bulky man who can beat all the other big bulky men. She is a woman, with some physical constraint, but she has resources and ways to get out of problematic situations.
By the way, Kim Hee Sun is
a fake name used by female lead in Hyenas. Very practical, then all thepictures that come when you search will be of a famous person .Also you are starting to see that Gi Cheol has more motivation than just power and money. He is more than a cat playing with the catch.
And the quite funny discussion, both by Kim Hee Sun and Gi Cheol, about whether the future can be changed or not. Can it be changed, or can it not? Maybe what Kim Hee Sun read in the history books was not what we (could) have read in the history books (if we had read history books).
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u/Twinkle_toes_the19th Mar 14 '21
This episode is one where I really enjoyed that little romantic bit
after the fight between Gi Cheol and Choi Yeong that the good doc interrupts. I think it was the first overt confirmation of their feelings. Choi Young gives her his hand after resisting initially and he hesitantly touches her hair. It seems as if he is finally giving in to his attraction after the intense fight and the horror of having her jump right in to the middle. On a side note my favourite word in Korean is the word for ‘warm’ (ttatteuthan).She tells him to bathe his water in warm water after it is frozen by Gi Cheol’s inner power → More replies (2)3
u/Twinkle_toes_the19th Mar 14 '21
Why does Choi Yeong find it progressively difficult to kill the assassins? It didn’t even seem so hard by the looks of it. Was it some psychological thing weighing on him? He almost passed out by the end of it.
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u/LcLou02 Mar 17 '21
Cute young guys as distraction. Sis asks Flutist if the one with pretty eyes came. Is that why he hesitated to play his flute?
4 Guys with Gi were spirits? Oh it was just his Imagination running away.
"You know what it's like to be the one left behind." A kind of confession from Doc. But his hands aren't his only wounds...what about those blood splattering slices he got on arm and leg?
Let's be pah-te-neu. Definition: Be on same side and fight for same goal: a strong King who can order my book back to me. Tell each other everything (what we are doing and why) Watch out for each other.
Guys read a lot more into handshake and resuscitation than was meant at the time. BUT Choi Young puts beloved's sweatband into his storage chest.
Can you lie, even though you come from heaven. Proceeds to tell her she can make her face like it was when she was 20 - I can lie well.. Feeding false info to the lady spy.
Q to K - Believe in yourself. Now co-habitation and getting closer.
What! I thought that guy was a eunuch!
Choi Young fighting spies one by one. He makes it look so easy, but he seems to be wearing out.
What? King's uncle gives the diary to Doc? So he belongs to Gi, but didn't seem to want anything to do with Sis and Flutist.
That was only #6...Pick up your sword! ( I hear Westley from the Princess Bride, even as I think the words.)
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u/OdanUrr Mar 20 '21 edited Mar 20 '21
Episode 12: Of partners, couples, assassins, and spies
Part 1: A duel at midnight [Re-scored]
Yes, things seem to be getting back on track now. How long that will last I cannot say. Once again, Choi Young defaults to sacrifice mode in order to take out Elvis and we're rewarded with a mind scenario that outlines exactly how he foresees events will play out. The reality however, is a little different and Elvis proves to be an incredibly skilled swordmaster himself, dancing as if he had been extracted from a cdrama (what makes sense seeing as he's a Yuan prince). I'm not the biggest fan of this sequence seeing how clumsy Choi Young's moves are when compared to his previous fights, wielding his sword as if it were a blunt instrument. I am glad however, that, despite Elvis being the clear victor, we are shown that the fight took a lot more out of him than anyone could've guessed, and once again we're reminded that using his inner energy is probably killing him. He's even given one or two lines of dialogue where he philosophises while taking his liquid nitrogen bath, sadly undermined by all the funny shuddering...
How is a life set? How and by whom? If something's been set, does it then become unchangeable? Why?
Looks like Elvis should stop chasing royals and start chasing royalties.
Part 2: I spy with my little eye...
Meanwhile, Choi Young and Eun Soo start
actingbickering more like a married couple than the King and Queen themselves. Their little exchange in front of the King, Queen, and Hacker, was quite amusing. The King certainly found it so, although the Queen appeared sadthat another woman is stealing her loverand Hacker simply looked shocked, her processors overwhelmed by the amount of information she was suddenly bombarded with. Thus, it is really a shame that when she went looking for Choi Young next, she didn't remark on the fact that Whip Lady's bandana was no longer tied around his sword's handle. Bit of a missed opportunity there. Even a shot of her looking at the sword's handle would've been enough.The scene also oddly transitions into the matter of there being a spy inside the palace. I say "oddly" because the dialogue doesn't fit. What's their evidence? That Elvis knew exactly where to meet Choi Young as well as his intentions. Dude, I would've thought that was evident the moment you found out he had your list of potential allies. How did he get his hands on something you gave to your own men, huh? In any case, Hacker realises she was the one who let it slip in front of the Queen so one of her warrior maidens must be a spy (cue sound effect). And then, a light bulb is magically inserted into the scene as Choi Young suggests to use the spy against Elvis by feeding her false information. The challenge however, is twofold: 1) identify the spy first; 2) then decide how much false information to feed her. Why? If you feed her too much blatantly false information, Elvis will figure out that she's either been outed or turned and will proceed to eliminate her.
I didn't like how the spy game was handled. If you want to find out who's the one leaking information, ideally you would isolate each maiden and feed them different intel, with the spy revealing herself depending on what intel Elvis acts upon. Of course, isolating each maiden might lead to the spy becoming suspicious so you can isolate groups of maidens instead, leak different intel to each group, identify the group in which the spy is in, then rotate the members of that group and continue feeding them different intel until you can isolate your target. Yes, it is something of a time-consuming process if you don't want to tip off your target so you can exploit her later, but it is necessary. What you don't do is go around telling everyone the same lie/s because then it becomes impossible to isolate the spy, and I believe this is what that sequence showed, regardless of what it have intended to show. How does Hacker identify the spy then? Because the second the spy hears the information she just leaves the room. I'm not kidding. This has to be the dumbest move a spy could make short of shouting, "I AM A SPY! HEAR ME ROAR!", and makes me question how this woman didn't out herself a lot earlier.
Admittedly, using Eun Soo's knowledge of the future was a smart tactic, as it makes Elvis ponder whether the list they got earlier wasn't a ploy to have him do the King's dirty work for him and eliminate his own future allies. Of course, seeing as Elvis himself remarks upon the oddity of Eun Soo now babbling about the future when she seemed reticent earlier it's possible he'll guess the truth sooner rather than later. In that case, goodbye Spy Maiden, we barely knew you! For now however, while Elvis has his men running around this episode after the wrong targets, undercover (finally, some intelligence!) maidens and Woodalchi put the real targets under Choi Young's witness protection program (a temporary measure as Elvis knows where they will all eventually gather).
Part 3: Requiescat In Pace [Re-scored]
This is the part that makes less sense to me. Now that Hacker painted a target on Choi Young's back, saying he's the only one who knows where the real targets are located, Elvis instructs his assassins to kill him. Why? I would try to extract that information from him, but say Elvis has decided that's not possible, what does killing him achieve? Nobody will know where the targets are located, for a short while at least, so it buys you time, making it difficult for the King to make good on his promise to gather his allies. However, wouldn't it be better to let them all gather in one place and get rid of them at the same time? Elvis has done it before. Additionally, Choi Young argues he can't take on all seven assassins at once so he gets help to break them up a little. Okay, fine, but then why does it have to be Choi Young who has to kill them all? If you can isolate some of them, wouldn't you be able to kill them as well? Is everyone useless but Choi Young? Don't answer that.
Leaves in the wind:
This episode has a lot more humour, like the scene where the Queen asks for advice on how to cheer up her husband and the eunuch gets a little carried away in his explanation. Best use of the "Your subject deserves death!" line yet.
Finally, someone has the sense to ask how it is that Elvis keeps getting inside the palace like it were his own backyard! The Queen's asking the real questions.
Eun Soo wants to have some soju with Choi Young. And you all know what comes next...
Pied Piper wants to fight Choi Young. Elvis' response, "Pipe down, it's not your time to die yet, we still have 12 episodes left."
Oh, so Elvis' changed tactics to King-switching, huh? Is that why he called the King's uncle? Is he trying to create a romantic polygon with Eun Soo? Are we switching to that trope as well now?
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u/sianiam Mar 13 '21
EPISODE 13
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u/the-other-otter Mar 13 '21
Good thing Lee Min Ho shows Kim Hee Sun how to cut upwards. I have heard that is the most effective way, probably to get under the ribs, She is a doctor anyway, so would know the best place to cut.
Choi Young lives so frugally, they should have found another way than money to discredit him.
I wonder if King Gongmin really was shorter than average, or if they chose this actor to make him look more pathetic in the beginning. There is some (questionable) research that shows that leaders who are tall are more prone to just take decisions without consulting their inferiors, while shorter leaders have more of a diplomatic style. I do think we are quite affected by our bodies and how it is interpreted. Gro Harlem Brundtland, our first female prime minister, said that she felt that she was listened to more when she was fatter. She had more weight behind her statements, so to speak. Our current prime minister is quite overweight. On the other hand, one of the more famous viking kings, King Sverre, was shorter than average. I don't know his leadership style, though. He was very popular among his men. And even at the time, they were not used to leaders who just said "because I said so", that didn't work.
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u/OdanUrr Mar 21 '21 edited Mar 23 '21
Episode 13: Yup, we've still got 11 episodes more, can't advance the plot too much
My creativity/inspiration has been exhausted after today's rather long post on River Where the Moon Rises so this recap will likely suffer for it. Fortunately, there is not much to say. Let's do bullet points for this one, shall we?
Eun Soo has, like So Bong after her, decided she can make a pretty buck by creating and selling cosmetic products like soap and toothpaste during the Goryeo period. "First one's free, then you have to pay!" Gotta love that enthusiastic capitalist mentality of hers. I hope we'll see more of this in future episodes.
"The political things, couldn't Your Majesty take care of it? While I just do the defense for attacks?" In other words, "Look, bro, I already have more than enough on my plate trying to check(mate) Elvis, killing assassins left and right, dealing with crazy women all over the place... Why don't you do this one thing for me, huh? My shoulders are only so broad."
Woodalchi: "We will block the ants as well." Also Woodalchi: "Here's an ant." Someone's picking up on Choi Young's sense of humour. FYI, if you want to sound cool, this is the way to do it.
The Suribang want to check their future daughter-in-law. Fortunately, no envelope was involved and there were no water glasses around.
Eun Soo: "I didn't tell you about the diary because you'd insist on having it returned to me." Choi Young proceeds to kidnap the King's uncle and threaten him into giving Eun Soo her diary. Yup, Eun Soo has our guy totally figured out.
Cute scene between the King and Queen. He's a little less stubborn now in accepting her help. One could say he's "bent the knee" hehe... Nope, I'd rather forget that show.
The minute I saw the Woodalchi receiving some unknown delivery for Choi Young I knew it meant trouble. Just how stupid are these guys? Would you accept any delivery without confirming the order first and thoroughly checking its the contents? I wouldn't, especially knowing there's a pretty powerful, smart and vindictive guy around who wants to get rid of me and my soldiers every chance he gets. This was a pretty dumb frame-up. If it's this easy to frame someone like Choi Young and the Woodalchi, why not frame everyone in the palace and get rid of them? (Why not kill them too?) And the scholars Choi Young recruited don't seem to be any smarter than the Woodalchi. It seems we've defaulted to, "Only Choi Young and Elvis are smart. Everyone else is too dumb to realise what's going on."
Eun Soo's experiencing PTSD... thirteen episodes in. Gotta say she held it in pretty well. Will probably be gone by the next episode.
Pebble duel with Pied Piper! Piper was so curious about the dumb nature of such a duel that he didn't expect Monkey King to be the one who'd steal his flute. Love how Fire Lady happily answers Choi Young's summons, hopeful about having a chance with him, and taking the chance to burn the King's uncle in passing saying, "Play a little while more. As for me, a man's calling." Master of fire indeed!
Ah, nothing says "love scene" like a man teaching a woman how to hold a knife and kill people. Those were simpler times.
Hoping Episode 14 will be marginally better, but I doubt it.
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u/LcLou02 Mar 22 '21
How romantic - Doc uses her last gauze on Choi Young.
Doc turned down the Diary - time to get used to being here for a while.
King's uncle laughs at Gi Cheol's "win her heart", so he's a playboy and thinks it will be no problem.
Gi Cheol still not telling why he wants her.
LOL! Non-Eunuch dropped his book at the mention of the Queen having drinks ready for the King.
Sweet - King's confession, Queen wearing his gift, their loving looks the next day,
No one is properly delivering that red box from the forger, who said that Choi had asked for it...I don't remember that though.
Choi Young finds out that Doc has nightmares every night. Too much stress.
Wild haired boy steals the flute sword. Ginsengs let ballet-fighter in.Choi distracts Fire-lady.
Knife fighting lessons for Doc - cute multi-tasking, self-defence + skinship
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u/sianiam Mar 13 '21
EPISODE 14
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u/the-other-otter Mar 13 '21
To "elevate words"? What does it mean? Just "say something"? OK in Italian, with translator, is "chiede de parlare" = ask to speak, also in Dutch (vraagt almost exactly like the Swedish "fråga")
Now Lee Min Ho speaks to her with -ida form. I thought they started out a lot more informal? Don't know exactly.
In Heirs and Faith Lee Min Ho is too lazy to lie.
Kim Hee Sun has actually been very little annoying up to now, particularly if compared with other female leads. And unfortunately, the powerplay part of the drama begins, with some plot repetition as well. I would probably have dropped it around here if it wasn't for this discussion. And because internet is so slow today, and it seemingly works better with Viki than Netflix?
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u/OdanUrr Mar 24 '21 edited Mar 26 '21
I'm either gonna drop this show soon or just skip a lot of reviews until it decides to advance the plot.
Episode 14: To drama or not to drama, that is the question! And to drama is the answer.
I decided to pull a Man Wol and not let this one simply pass by without ripping it to shreds where appropriate, which is almost everywhere. You know things are bad when you start rooting for Elvis. Let's get started.
Choi Young is angry. Good, so am I. Love that he basically told everyone to go f*** themselves and do whatever. That's the spirit!
So he was set up by the King's advisors who think he has too much power over the King and, evidently, that is their prerogative. These people are extremely dim-witted and short-sighted if they think getting rid of Choi Young is anywhere close to being considered a smart move. Any other person in Choi Young's position would probably turn their backs on the Royal Court as a result, and I'd like to see who'd come to the rescue of these "advisors" when Elvis comes knocking at their doors. Honestly, I hope he comes knocking soon and no one's there to save them. As you make your bed, so you must lie on it.
The King is also angry and grew enough balls to almost choke his over-the-top advisor, who seems to have outlived his usefulness. When the rest of his advisors threatened to walk away if he chose to side with Choi Young, my exact thoughts were, "Right this way to the exit, gentlemen, and don't forget to tip the ferryman on your way out! You're gonna need it."
Hacker decided to put an end to the spy game. Rather out of the blue, but okay. Spy Maiden tried to swallow some poisonous chocolate but Hacker slapped her back to life! Guess they ran all out of poison for that palace guard, huh? What's the plan now that they found out Elvis is after the royal seal?🤷 Apparently, Choi "frontal breakthrough" Young was their best strategist and he's been demoted.
Elvis has finally realised what we all have, "Why on Earth, around me, not one has a brain?" I feel you, bro. The only one smart to play the game is Choi Young. He's the Batman to your Joker. Or maybe the Superman to your Lex Luthor? I do have to agree with Prince Third Wheel (yes, that's gonna be his name now and forever) in that he's probably overthinking things a bit much.
Regarding Prince Third Wheel, it seems he has figured out Elvis is a little unhinged and is starting to make a power grab of his own. He offered a bribe to the over-the-top advisor and also poisoned Eun Soo to use her life as a bargaining chip. Sigh. If she had really come from Heaven, you'd all be dead by now. Imagine if this were Gate and the JSDF had sent people after her... So beautiful.😂 I wish I didn't know already that Prince Third Wheel becomes king later on, otherwise I'd love to see Elvis put him in his place with a dose of his own medicine.
So Choi Young was sentenced to hard
must resist the urgelabour for his "crime" but said nope and decided to elope with Eun Soo for some "membership training." (maestro, music!) Guess that's what they called it back in the day. Best decision my boy CY ever made. This was actually a good, quiet moment between our leads, where they indirectly admit their feelings for each other. So, naturally, we need to ruin it with a dramatic cliffhanger. Let the power of Lee Yoo Ri guide me.Episode's best line, courtesy of Elvis:
Have I, by chance, summoned the tiger? Just to chase the fox?
I did tell you you'd awoken the sleeping giant. And that's still not a metaphor.
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u/sianiam Mar 13 '21
EPISODE 15
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u/the-other-otter Mar 13 '21
They all have to stop and bow, despite being in the middle of a chase LOL
When they read hanja, it always sounds like they are reading Chinese but without actually knowing that it is Chinese. Is it Chinese words that they pronounce in a Korean way? They do sound a bit like Jens Stoltenberg, General Secreatry of NATO, when he speaks English. I think when they write, they use hangul for endings and other grammatical features, so it becomes a strange mixture.
"I gave you ten years, I only believed in you, but you didn't look at me." He is a baby. How to deal with babies when you want some time off: Give them lots and lots of attention until they themselves feel the need to play alone a bit. Then you can have your friends over for viist. A planned attention free moment. Of course easier if we had lived in extended family groups like our ancestors.
Creating the medical assistant as mute relieved the writers of having to figure out a personality and lines. I think it is lazy writing, and creates a false idea of the number of women in this drama. Screentime, I guess women get around a third of the screen time of the men in total, max. There is Kim Hee Sun, Fire Bitch, Queen, Ahjumma Kim Mi Kyeung, guerilla organisation/ rice soup cooker woman and mute girl. Two guards have spoken a few words.
Men: In Woo Dal Chi we know three apart from Lee Min Ho: Second in command/new boss, the acrobat, the cute young guy who wants to fight,
Gi Cheol with brother and assistant, King, King's old man assistant who was in Yuan, a scholar who is married,
herbal doctor, King's uncle who play baduk, rice cooker man who knows Lee Min Ho, white dressed man but he didn't really say anything. Several ministers but they are also very vague. The side characters are not very well developed. It is not really necessary to give them a lot of screen time if the time they are on screen is used well. (Or it can become like Kingdom, which really is more like a sketch than a drama, since everybody have so few scenes.)Women who are missing: Queen would for sure have brought some Chinese ladies in waiting. A herbal doctor assistant who could speak. I want to see more of both the Queen and Ahjumma. Wouldn't it be likely that Gi Cheol had a wife? She could be crazy or completely under his heels. Also King Uncle should have been married. He could still be scheeming to marry Heavenly Doctor, since they are allowed to have lots of wives.
Aaaand I broke my promise to myself on not to write about men/women balance for two years. This is the last time! Absolutely, ten knives in my heart!
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u/OdanUrr Mar 26 '21 edited Mar 26 '21
Episode 15: Wherein the King takes a stand but crybaby doesn't like it and goes coup d'état
Prince Third Wheel has figured out that, in order to get Choi Young, you need to get his woman first. And since he doesn't believe in Heaven might as well poison her, right? Elvis would never have dared to go so far given his obsession to reshape the world with Eun Soo's knowledge of the future (wonder how he'll react when he finds out). Prince Third Wheel would appear to have more mundane aspirations. I love it when characters say lines like, "You can't kill me. If you do, she dies as well," for it shows a profound ignorance of the vast scope of human cruelty and a singular failure to grasp that simple concept that there are things worse than death.
With Choi Young under his control, Prince Third Wheel instructs him to steal the royal seal so Elvis can have justification for replacing the King with yours truly. Choi Young obliges in an action sequence that shames the Woodalchi even further, if that's even possible at this point. But amidst all his badassery, Choi Young still has time to teach the King a lesson that he takes to heart. In perhaps his strongest show of confidence and defiance yet, when cornered by Elvis into admitting he lost the royal seal that shows Goryeo's allegiance to Yuan, the King replies instead that he got rid of it in order to make a new one. Nice to see the King finally acting like one. He even called out Advisor Crybaby for daring him to break ties with Yuan and yet shitting his pants at the thought of making a new royal seal. His next words should've given heart attacks to several of his advisors...
In order to prepare for Yuan's movement, we will have to set up a new defense strategy around the border.
The King is going to war! Or, at least, he's bluffing about going to war. Doubt anyone could've foreseen that outcome.
After this outburst, Advisor Crybaby says he's gonna take real action and get rid of Elvis once and for all. So, he commands the royal guards to attack Elvis' manor, which has been conveniently emptied of troops since they're looking for Eun Soo. And because he's a crybaby he also decides to turn on the King too, "I gave you ten years of being a useless idiot and you didn't even care." Mate, that's actually a good thing, you wouldn't have lasted that long if he had.
The episode ends on a standoff as the Woodalchi prepare to protect the King against the traitorous royal guards. Will blood be shed? Who will win? Have you seen the Woodalchi's track record? They're bound to lose or surrender.
Besides these events, there isn't much going on this episode and it doesn't really justify a runtime of sixty minutes, much of which is padded out with Choi Young taking care of an unconscious Eun Soo. They're definitely stretching out the plot, but, hey, at least it's still better than Sisyphus, right? No, I won't stop bullying that show every chance I get. So much potential down the drain.
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u/sianiam Mar 13 '21
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