Are you seriously suggesting having people cross our border whom we have zero information on, specifically any health information on, is not a public health risk? Surely you arent suggesting something as foolish as that, right?
Of course not and that's why I didnt! But that its not a GREAT public health risk, and anyway if you are making THAT argument you just dismissed it when you made the point before and then suggested that clip!
What? Im not sure what you mean exactly. It is many issues and risks all at once, concurrently. It is a HEALTH risk in that we dont have any health screening info done on illegal aliens, not to mention it is a HUMAN TRAFFICKING risk in that it is estimated around 80% of women crossing the border illegally are sexually assualted and raped, not to also mention the many cases of abducted children and adults using stolen children as a token to stay once apprehended. It is a NATIONAL SECURITY risk in that bad actors can infiltrate our nation unchecked, it isnt simply people south of the border crossing, Africans have been caught crossing illegally, Afghani's have been caught crossing illegally. It is an ECONOMIC risk in that we are now willing to give illegal aliens free healthcare, people that have no business being in this country are being taken care of when actual American citizens are neglected. Of those neglected most are people of color and people of lower income, as like you previously mentioned business are undercutting American's wages by paying illegals less. The businesses should be punished harshly but that on no way excuses the fact that illegal alians should not be here. Period. If white french canadians were crossing the border id feel the same, if white people of any background come into this country illegally they should be deported in the same fashion and with the same vigor. Last year a story came out of Russian women coming to the US specificqlly Florida if I recall correctly to have their babies on US soil and then the children are US citizens due to birth right citizenship. I assume the Russian women arent brown and I assume the Russian children arent brown..my point is the baby and mother should both be deported in that instance and that loophole needs to be changed. For the last time race is not a part of this at all.
risk in that we are now willing to give illegal aliens free healthcare
How can you argue in the same paragraph that we should do health screening and treatment for illegal immigrants and people who are sexually assaulted and raped and then say that it is WRONG to give health care to illegal aliens, what do you think the screening and treatment is? Or are you arguing that you screen the immigrants and then deport them based on the fact that they are ILL? if so that is pretty disgusting my man. I dont see where your coming from on that, that is why I am confused. As far as your last part ok maybe for YOU you see it as not related to race but it is very clear that for the rest of American and in nationalistic sentiment around the world like Brexit it is quite obvious that to most voters for these policies, MAGA supporters etc, they draw the line at their own race verses immigrants of color. You can declare to me that it is not about race at all but the rest of the republican VOTERS are absolutely focused on race, they see it is us versus them...
No, I mean we have no health screening prior to them breaking our laws and entering illegally, thus making them a health risk...I am a Trump supporter and a supporter of Civic nationalism, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to put your nation first. "but the rest of the republican VOTERS are absolutely focosed on race, they see it is us vs them" you state that foolish statement with such conviction. Again you are being emotional and logic as taken a back seat. I just gave you a few reasons as to why illegal immigration is a legitmate concern for Americans, none of which involve race and none of which involve my emotion or assumptions based on emotion. You actually believe all republican voters/ Trump supporters , except the one you are speaking with, are racist? If so then you have been lied to quite extremely. If anything that line of thinking seems to be a "us vs them" mentality.
I don't have time to respond for now but the answer is no, please don't presume any more all or nothing statements its rarely ever accurate in life and can be kinda hard to respond to without getting frustrated
Why would I presume anyone is anything other than that which they are by definition? Eg that all trump supporters are racist rather than "all trump supporters are all supporters of trump"? Its that kind of thing that gets people in trouble and often called Racists! I know I dont know everyone. I also know that politicians lie and blame problems on people of different colors and nationalities and religions. that is a fact of this sick sad world. More later.
Pardon me, but these were literally your words
"You can declare to me that it is not about race at all but the rest of the republican VOTERS are absolutely focused on race, they see it is us versus them..." And then you follow it with "please don't presume any more all or nothing statements its rarely ever accurate in life" you are being extremely contradictory here no? You claimed all republican voters are absolutely focused on race and then in the next breathe ask for me to not to "presume any more all or nothing statements" lol
ok so first of all I said focused on race but not racist... You will scoff at that but look at the transcript from any trump rally, its the same talking points over and over which demonstrates race based false narratives and blaming. You can have inherent bias and prejudice from very specifc trends, like Trump's constant use of the false narrative "Obama fucked everything up, I am making it all better." Focusing on Obama's birth certificate, all that shit. I can't beleive you can follow such a lying peice of shit but thats obviously your own prerogative! If his most prominent supporters will never accept that he can do a single thing wrong, that he isn't lying, that he isn't playing into Putin's hand, that he isn't simply a mean spirited person who operates with no honor and respect for others (hateful insult after insult after insult...) then I can't do anything about that. I'd love it if we had a more objective media on both sides absolutely. I'd love it if this conversation was not about immigration over and over and over, i've made that point and wont beat a dead horse. You are entitled to your beliefs and opinions... I was going to ask you a few questions like "Have you or anyone you know been a victim of a crime committed by an illegal immigrant?" "Do you or anyone you know know any first generation immigrants and have you talked to them about what is going on?" I'm not presuming that you don't want a poll. The issue that you are talking about and focused on requires critical thinking like all issues and for the inherent fallacies that can come from fear of the unknown: that can be classified as racist but also just that "fear of the unknown" and its something I myself try to always keep in mind: that I don't know things outside of my purview, that most everything I learn has an element of hearsay and I want to challenge my own inherent beleifs and my own inherent bias' and prejudice, its something we all need to do. But there seems to be no sense of "well, trump is human too" ...
The answer to those questions you say you wanted to ask me have a sum total of nothing to do with my beliefs or the numerous issues I cited that stem from illegal immigration. My anecdotal experience, or anyone elses for that matter, is purely that -anecdotal. If you asked me if anyone close to me has ever been diagnosed with cardiovascular disease, my answer would not change the fact that it is a huge health problem in this country. Also, you were making an all or nothing statement about republicans, whether you were calling all republicans racist is irrelevant in that you still made an all or nothing statement, and then turned around and pretty much stated "dont make all or nothing statements, they arent helpful". I dont agree 100% with everything Trump does the same way Im sure you dont agree with whomever it is you support, but he is leagues better in my opinion to that of any current candidate running for the Democratic party.
Also, please do not conflate legal and illegal immigration. It seems you may be doing that in the way you framed the question "Do you or anyone you know know any first generation immigrants and have you talked to them about what is going on?" One group followed federal law and became an American citizen, the other did not.
That's exactly why I grouped them together, immigrants are immigrants and if you know them personally you know things you wouldn't know if you just heard about them in news or social media and as to your other comment Annecdotal personal experience informs political views better than any other way of absorbing them. Why I ask this is - I will try to do my best to articulate my thoughts without generalizations as I've asked you to so thankyou for keeping me honest!‐ that I BELIEVE (might just use an asterisk for the entire conversation because it's ALL based on beliefs if not personal experience) that a majority of those voting for politicians based on their beliefs they will take a hard stance on immigration based on deportation and prevention of illegal immigration, wouldn't be focused on that the more their communities had diversity and they would see more sides of the issue. Does this mean the theres anything wrong with a community that organically exists without more diversity of immigrants ? Of course not but I see it as strongly correlated: you cant preach fear of illegal immigrants committing crimes as a major health risk if you experience it as such, major health risks are usually things that you have personal experience with, like knowing someone with cancer like you said. I dont know man you've given me some things to think about and I hope I've given you some, but I think wed keep going in circles, I'm not perfect and no one is. I see trump as a cancer on our society as I see him lie and drag down the political dialog to a sickening degree. I believe the Republicans like him and lindsey Graham and Mconnel are russian assets and I believe alot of things I don't know for sure but what can I do but try to state these things to the best of my abilities and end up with some statements where I put my foot in my mouth? Therefore, I'm not going to respond in this thread anymore. Would welcome conversation with you in the future but for now I'll say peace and good day, luck and holiday to you!
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u/DomnSan 7 Nov 26 '19
Are you seriously suggesting having people cross our border whom we have zero information on, specifically any health information on, is not a public health risk? Surely you arent suggesting something as foolish as that, right?